Israel

[Jake_Sully]

(Bumpa STIKKA @ Jun. 08 2010,23:17) I am a proud 'jack boot wearing' right winger.

Put it this way - think of the most right wing man ever... now if I was standing on his right and he looked to his right then the pussy couldn't even see me.

   

You should take the politicial spectrum test, I'd like to see for real how right wing you are compared to how authoritarian.

[JaiDee]

(Torurot @ Jun. 09 2010,18:07) USA is NOT a democracy BTW, it's a Republic. Lots of Americans tell me this..

That was the intent, and it is indeed what the founding fathers wanted.

Since then it has kinda veered off course......same as this thread


18 pages on Israel?? I'd rather read the 51 in pointless....or is that basically reading one and the same??

[guydesavoy]

A democracy, at least in my humble definition, is a society where all get a free vote. No harassment, no coercion...everyone chooses to vote the way they like..or not to vote.

Sounds like America to me. Now..of course the problem is that some people don't agree with the vote. But that's democracy ya see Everyone has a free opinion

[azza33]

USA is NOT a democracy BTW, it's a Republic. Lots of Americans tell me this...

It closer to a democracy than most other countries.

As for the rest, i've said it before as well... you are a CLEAR hater of the USA.

What i love about your open mind, is you believe US is the only country with double standards - you are the one who needs to open your mind as well.
All countries are playing games mate... not just the US.

You need to weigh up both sides of the argument - any reasoned person would conclude the US is a more positive world influence than a negative one.
All you want to focus is on the negative - try writing about the positive for a change.

You remind me of all the bitter Europeans that fled after the war and settled in OZ ... all they do is blame the US and whinge and whine about them.
Greeks are especially good at this one... and they indoctrinate their offspring with the same tripe... every time i read your anti-US nonsense it reeks of this type of background.

[kahuna]

(Torurot @ Jun. 09 2010,18:07) What a RIDICULOUS thing to say!  I don't "hate" Americans...    
There's PLENTY to LOVE about America and Americans.  

Thanks for your reply...And I ain't trying to start a fight...Just how you come across on the Board to me...

And I really don't want you to love me...

[JaiDee]

Very well-spoken, Azza ...... I am curious to know your background now, you have an Ozzie flag but do you come from there originally??

       Because if so you are one of the more open-minded gents I have read or talked to from that large and lovely continent.......most people I have come across from there {unfortunately} hate Americans just because we come from a place called ...... duh,  America!!

 Thanks for realizing that most of us are decent people who just wanna live our lives and be left alone.

[azza33]

Jaidee... im from Australia, born and bread.

I only been to the USA once in 1999 - loved the place very much... and really didn't want to get on the plane to come back to oz.

I tried 3 times to get a green card - never had any luck - would have loved to have lived and worked in the states.
A few of my friends actually ended up working over there due to their PHD qualifications... all loved it very much.

As i wrote in another thread... its sad to see the state of US housing and the banking system over there (not in quite as kind words ) , the world needs a strong America, for peace & stability. (yes i'm serious folks)

Despite what the idealists think, the world is not fair, nor sane, nor particularly stable.... Iran would go bananas if there was no US, so would North Korea, Europe would probably still be fighting each other... (instead they finally banded together to be an economic force against the US) - more learned people could probably come up with another likely dozen conflicts that would break out.

People who are continually anti US need to wake the fuck up and see the world for the mess it really is - and actually.... right now... the world is more peaceful than it ever has been ... something to think about

[pacman]

Intelligent Australians have had their faith truly tested by America's foreign policy of the past 40 years, give or take.

It is worth taking a moment to explain it for non-Australians because our ambivalence towards the US has been so misunderstood.

Growing up in Australia, we looked up to the US as the pinnacle of all that was good in the world. If we could be like anyone, we wanted to be Americans.

Things started to change with the Vietnam war. There was endless debate over our role there, why were we being dragged into a civil war that had nothing to do with us.

We were all sold the line that it was in our national interest. We were assured over & over that if we needed help, the US would be the first to come to our aid.

Not many still believe that today.

But things bumped along here until George W Bush was elected. At first he was fine, his response to 9/11 seemed strong. He wasn't someone to be messed with.

We liked that. But it went to hell once we realised that history was repeating itself & we were again obligated to enter a war that no one agreed with & again, made no sense for us to be there.

Our country near tore itself apart arguing over our role. Combine that with the constant denigration of W night after night on the evening news (something far worse than any coverage given to him in the US) & people I knew changed from being with the US 100% to cursing them at every opportunity.

Here was the world being lead down the garden path to a possible nuclear confrontation by a buffoon who had no idea how to end an unwinnable war but he had our government over a barrel & we were forced to go along with him.

The level of hostility & how quickly public opinion turned against the US is unprecedented in my lifetime. Americans who visited here were shocked at how their government was being portrayed in the media. And they were rightly upset.

But there is some good news. It is not Americans we dislike. We know they have been sold out, how the right wing took the religious right, the xenophobic & the redneck vote & rallied their support for their agenda. (Hence the huge hopes we held for Obama)

And those of us who have visited the States always remind people here what gracious & generous folks most Americans are. At least in my experience.

I wouldn't enjoy it either if Australia was held up as responsible for the troubles of the world but just as I have no influence over my countries policies, I know the American BM's here have no say over theirs.

[Guest]

(kahuna @ Jun. 09 2010,17:53)

(Torurot @ Jun. 09 2010,17:18) Enough, I need to rush over and score the 1000th post on the pointless thread,  

Please don't cut and paste your tripe over there...It is The Pointless Thread after all...

Tell me Torurot, why do you hate Yanks and the United States of America so much?  
What is it about us Yanks that makes you search for every article that maligns and bashes us?  
Travis Bickle and Whore clearly don't much care for us Yanks either but at least they hate us with their own words...

I'm really curious...Why do you hate us so?  

au contraire mr kahuna.I dont hate Americans at all.I hate your government 's support of the zionist terror state of Israel.
The Americans Ive met are the friendliest people on the planet,but in general,surprisingly ill informed.Thats why I posited the question earlier,namely how many apologists for Israel are American, because from my experience of watching U.S.tv stations , there is very little world news based programming,and anything concerning Israel always shown in the best possible light,anything apertaining to Arabia in the worst possible light.

Fair and balanced it is not.I think Europeans have a more balanced view of the Palestinian question,and we do not have AIPAC running our government and Congress,and a news media freer than anything in America.It is still possible to criticize Israel in Europe(except Germany obviously) without comitting political suicide ,as that always is in America.

I repeat,I have no axe to grind with the American people,and I'm surprised you should think that way.Critiscism of the American Government(s) is not being anti -american.

[Guest]

(azza33 @ Jun. 09 2010,21:44)

USA is NOT a democracy BTW, it's a Republic. Lots of Americans tell me this...  

It closer to a democracy than most other countries.

As for the rest, i've said it before as well... you are a CLEAR hater of the USA.

What i love about your open mind,  is you believe US is the only country with double standards - you are the one who needs to open your mind as well.
All countries are playing games mate... not just the US.

You need to weigh up both sides of the argument - any reasoned person would conclude the US is a more positive world influence than a negative one.
All you want to focus is on the negative - try writing about the positive for a change.

You remind me of all the bitter Europeans that fled after the war and settled in OZ ... all they do is blame the US and whinge and whine about them.
Greeks are especially good at this one... and they indoctrinate their offspring with the same tripe... every time i read your anti-US nonsense it reeks of this type of background.

Well mr azza,you are a clear lover of the US,and for you they can do no wrong,nor their "ally" Israel.It's obviously because you're a closet Yank,or would dearly wish to be.

Why don't you try and educate yourself to the conflicts America and the Cia has fomented and directly caused over the decades since the second world war.
What about the cia murder of patrice lumumba in the Congo in the 60's,the kissinger led overthrow of the democratically elected,Chilean president Salvador Allende,and their installing the butcher Pinochet to replace him.


The usa a positive world influence?Youve gotta be joking-what about their support for Sukarno in Indonesia,they gave the green light for Indonesia to invade east timor and start their 30 year reign of terror there!There are many many more...


...these things are all out there to check...one of the great british journalists living in America,Mr christopher Hitchens,a very clever man by anyones reckoning has written a brilliant book outlining the crimes of the cia and kissinger-look it up.He cannot in any way be called anti-american,as his love for all things USA has made him become an American citizen.

Paradoxically,anyone who really loves America,should do everything in its power to challenge and criticize its sick disfunctional relationship with Israel.Israel is the elephant in the living room,and its time that this sick relationship with the usa was put in the spotlight.

[geezer]

I think people are getting confused and thinking that the Palestinians are one big homogenious society. One only needs to look at what Hamas did to the Fatah party when it took control of Gaza a few years back to break that myth. Why is Gaza under such a tight lock down compared to the West Bank? It's not rocket science (pardon the pun) Another interesting fact is one in five Israeli's are arab. So much for a united arab world against Israel.

Oddly enough (you've got to love irony) it was the Nazi's who came up with the idea of a Jewish "State" or rather expelling all European Jews to Madigasgar. Who knows how that would have worked out.

Egypt Blockades Gaza becuase of Hama's links with the Muslim Brotherhood who are banned in Egypt. I think if it wasn't for Irainian money to Hamas in the south and Hezbolla in the north Israel there would be a better chance of peace. But these guys have been fighting for 2000 years and ain't about to stop soon.

[azza33]

You are not enlightening anyone,
I don't need an education, clearly you may as it is implicit within my wording that I acknowlegde the wrongdoing in some us policy- but I am a firm believer the world is a better place due to the us. It's an opinion and nothing more.

[whore]

Your wrong about the "fighting for 2000 years" part. All the hostilities have started around the time Israel was created and named as recognized as a state. 1948 to 2010 doesnt add up to 2000 years.

There was one moment in history going back a fair bit, in Jordan or Syria when some king evicted all the Jews from his city. I cant quite remember exactly what it was. But the turkish protestors in Istanbul were singing about it a fornight ago outside the Israeli embassy.

[geezer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Dome of the Rock and the Temple mount share the same location. Surely there must have been some tension there when that was built?

[whore]

(azza33 @ Jun. 10 2010,00:11) You are not enlightening anyone,
I don't need an education, clearly you may as it is implicit within my wording that I acknowlegde the wrongdoing in some us policy- but I am a firm believer the world is a better place due to the us. It's an opinion and nothing more.

I agree with you Azza the world is a better place with the US. But the Palastinian people are not better off under apartheid by an Israeli government who is supported by a puppet US government with the Israeli lobby as the puppet master with his hand all the way up the US governments ass.

I have nothing against the american people, I just dont like some of their governments foreign policies. In a way I kinda feel sorry for the american people as so much of their money is being spent on Israeli apartheid when that money would be better spent making people who are suffering in the US lives better, than being spent to finance an apartheid state 3000miles away.