Israel

[manarak]

I'll have none of these who-is-right who-is-wrong debates.

When such conflict goes on for too long, both sides usually made enough mistakes to be wrong.

Let's not forget there are clever people steering all these countries, parties, movements, mercenaries and terrorists.
The trouble is that some of them don't do it for money or for power.

I'd rather have $-hungry dictators than religious fundamentalists, who basically just are people who are nuts.


If a major conflict is going to break out, better be ready and have an equipped and trained army.

[kahuna]

(travis bickle @ Jun. 09 2010,00:18) Tell me,are  you apologists for Israel exclusively Americans ?

No...Most are Brits...

[BlueBallz]

So what does Israel gain by being on a perpetual war footing?? Sure there were people in the territory of Palestine before 1948 and they were all scratching their asses shitting in holes in the ground. Do you think "Palestine" would be NEARLY as prosperous as Israel is?? Do me a fucking favor.......

Again look at what that pipsqueak King Hussein did to his own people in the late 60's. It makes what Israel does today look like a kiddies tea party!!

[Guest]

(BlueBallz @ Jun. 09 2010,01:14) So what does Israel gain by being on a perpetual war footing??  Sure there were people in the territory of Palestine before 1948 and they were all scratching their asses shitting in holes in the ground.  Do you think "Palestine" would be NEARLY as prosperous as Israel is??  Do me a fucking favor.......

Again look at what that pipsqueak King Hussein did to his own people in the late 60's.  It makes what Israel does today look like a kiddies tea party!!

Youre so naive.Without Israel being on a permanent war footing,how could they justify getting 10 billion dollars a year in money and armaments from you saps in the USA.

 Would Israel be so prosperous without that same 10 billion annual paycheck-?I doubt it-even accounting for the largesse heaped upon it by the  uber-wealthy worldwide Jewish diaspora,who are very generous to their own people.

The Palestinians are fighting for their basic human rights,and their freedom,something someone in your position has no comprehension of being without....so what has prosperity gotta do with it?

 See my earlier post on the quisling King Hussein,he is of no relevance-stick to the topic...basic human rights for the Palestinians....

BTW-have you googled rachel Corrie yet,?care to talk about her?
hmmmmm-thought not,bit too near the knuckle that isnt it.Won't you even condemn that killing-her being American and all?

[whore]

The Palestinians are fighting for their basic human rights,and their freedom,something someone in your position has no comprehension of being without

Well said Travis

[Lefty]

(travis bickle @ Jun. 09 2010,00:18)

(BlueBallz @ Jun. 08 2010,23:14) The Game speaks a lot of sense here.  It behooves The Arab world to keep up this conflict.  If there were two states side by side whom could the Arabs blame for their repressive regimes and, relative, lack of prosperity.  They (the tin pot dictators of the entire Arab world) would have many embarassing questions they would not  have any answers for.

Palestine wasnt a nation in the true sense of the word before 1948.  There was hardly anything there.  After Israel got the UN Mandate they turned nothing into something.

If/when there is are two states and if there were relative peace, I bet Israel would be fairly prosperous and "Palestine" would be a relative shithole.  I dont think it would be a stretch to say that corruption in a Palestinian state would make a fat Duvallier blush.  Hell, its been happening in Gaza for years.  Whose fault is that???  Of course its Israel and America's fault!!!!!!  Its so simple even Helen Thomas can see that!!!

Does it not behove the Israeli world also to keep the coflict going ?

So,there was  nothing there before the Jews arrived in 1948.?
Yes there was-the palestinians were there.

You and others like you are apologists for an evil apartheid regime.I'm sure if you ever took 1 week out of your life,and went to see how the Palestinians are treated in their own land,you would change your mind.

At the moment ,you are speaking from a position of ignorance.By the way,no one has mentioned Rachel Corrie,after which the Irish ship was named.Have you forgotten  her already? better google her now you apologists...you wont hear about her on fox news

Tell me,are  you apologists for Israel exclusively Americans ?

Good points as usual amigo. I think we have Israel apologists here who are Americans as well as English. I'm American and I'm sure as hell NOT an apologist for Israel.

[BlueBallz]

I have said before, I am on the side of Israel. You are on the side of Hamas. I know on which side I would rather be. There was fuck all in Palestine when those benevolent souls of the Ottoman Empire were in control. Its such a coinkeedink that the land and economy flourished AFTER the UN Mandate in 1948.

I dont know where you get the $10 billion figure from. I thought it was much closer to $3 billion. Thats about the same amount we give to Egypt and dont forget the billions we give to Pakistan annually. Foreign aid is a totally different issue. How about we (meaning the USA) dont give ANY or very minimal (with long strings attached) amount of foreign aid. Dont worry Israel would be MORE than capable of taking care of business herself......

[Guest]

(BlueBallz @ Jun. 09 2010,03:20) I have said before, I am on the side of Israel.  You are on the side of Hamas.  I know on which side I would rather be.  There was fuck all in Palestine when those benevolent souls of the Ottoman Empire were in control.  Its such a coinkeedink that the land and economy flourished AFTER the UN Mandate in 1948.

I dont know where you get the $10 billion figure from.  I thought it was much closer to $3 billion.  Thats about the same amount we give to Egypt and dont forget the billions we give to Pakistan annually.  Foreign aid is a totally different issue.  How about we (meaning the USA) dont give ANY or very minimal (with long strings attached) amount of foreign aid.  Dont worry Israel would be MORE than capable of taking care of business herself......

its like arguing with a child.You think by repeating the same old slogans,they will become pertinent. Why dont you say "im on the side of Likud,rather than Israel....its just a stupid neo-con slogan youre spouting.

The 10 billion refers to the £3 billion in cash and the $7 billion in military harware and technical services underwritten by Uncle Sam.Year in ,year out.Egypt gets $10 million (last time I looked)Pakistan ,I dont know how much they get,a lesser amount than Egypt probably.
America gives more to Israel alone,than it gives to every other country in the world put together.Fact-check it out.

Well.it would be a massive step toward peace if USA turned the financial and technical/armaments tap off....you think that will ever happen?never ever ever is the answer to that one.American politics has been hijacked by AIPAC,and anyone who even dares to mention the "I " word is quickly shown the door.

What has the ottoman empire got to do with anything.This is a debate about Palestinian human rights,and Israel's flouting of International law.


So,come on BB,tell me what you know about Rachel Corrie then...why won't you answer my question? How come all youse pro-israel bully boys only have one eye-a bit like moshe dayan in fact.

I see all your fellow neocons are keeping their collective heads down whenever I mention rachel corrie.....

[Bumpa STIKKA]

(BlueBallz @ Jun. 09 2010,03:20) I have said before, I am on the side of Israel...

This is the whole point. Either you are supporting terrorism or democracy.

That's ALL there is to it.

Interesting some for the forum members colours shining through.

Even more surprising that reasonably intelligent people here should be so enthusiastic about their political allegiance to the killings and ongoing terrorism of the Palestinians and their elected controllers whilst at the same time choosing to live in a free and democratic society.

Jokers!

[BlueBallz]

When Egypt signed the peace treaty with the Israelis, the US agreed to give Egypt a load of do$h. Dont know if its as much a sIsrael but I am certain its a lot. The last I heard is that we give Pakistan at least $3 Billion a year. In any country, thats a lot of scharol..........or do$h. What you really think Israel would wither and die if we dint give them anything?? Doubt it. They built their country out of desert scrubland. According to you, the Palestinians were there for ages and they were still shitting in holes in the ground.

Tell me what was the currency of Palestine and who were some of its Prime Ministers/dictators???

I did enjoy that you used the term "youse" though.

Rachel Corrie, was that the one on Coronation Street with the big tits???

[Bumpa STIKKA]

Rachel Corrie...

Sat in front of an industrial bull dozer!

How the fuck was she supposed to be seen?

She's an attention seeking (thankfully dead) cunt.

[BlueBallz]

Lets see Rachel Corrie got run over by a bulldozer. She was an American who went to Gaza, burned our flag and shouted anti American/Israeli invective.

Rachel Corrie was on the side of a society that creates some of the cruelest killers in the world. She gave her life trying to protect people dedicated to anniliate another country. She chose to defend people that send their children to blow up civilians. Have you seen some of the stuff they teach their kids in their schools?? She was basically a useful idiot.

Guess what?? We dont agree as to what kind of a person this Rachel Corrie was. No shocker there. She placed herself in the middle of a viscous internecine struggle. She had no business being there. Thats like me going to Belfast at the height of the troubles and sticking my nose in against one side or another. I get shot then I go to the authorities and piss and moan that I wasnt protected. If you stick your nose in between two fighting crocodiles, you might expect to have your face bitten off. Go figure.....

[f0xxee]

(Bumpa STIKKA @ Jun. 09 2010,07:19) [This is the whole point. Either you are supporting terrorism or democracy.

That's ALL there is to it.

Interesting some for the forum members colours shining through.

I have said it before: I personally would turn the whole of Gaza into a cage (Whoops! too late! Those gosh derned pesky Israeli's beat me to it)
and let them at each other.

They are equally dispicable and their motivations equally questionable to my mind.

Your comment about you are either for freedom or democracy rings hollow Bumpa my friend... and again I think perhaps you are agitating for the joy of watching the Left wing dance to your tune.

I doubt there is a purely democratic society left in the world these days: not if you consider a democracy to have the interests of the population at heart. Someone made a point on another thread about Lobbyists and special interest groups being the death of democracy and I think it is so: Democracy = Big Business these days, more's the pity.

And one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, it just depends on whether you get your new from FOX or Al Jezeeria.

Of course this is only in my opinion.

[BlueBallz]

OK Travis Bickle just for you: These are stats form the US Census Bureau regarding foreign aid:

For 2007 it was broken down by country. This includes Military and Economic Aid:

Egypt $2 Billion
Pakistan $ 977 Million
Israel $2.5 Billion

For 2008:
Israel $ 3 Billion
Middle East $ 10.8 Billion
Now these stats are skewed because probably at least $4 billion of that $10.8 to the "Middle East" went to Iraq. Still, the USA gives MORE to the Muslim countries of the Middle East than we do to Israel. Like I said, if we pulled the plug on EVERYONE I am certain Israel would do jst fine. Would some of the other tin pot dictatorships flourish??? Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Off to the left coast tomorrow..............

[Jake_Sully]

I never agree with the republicans lately but on this I want to say we need to stop spending.

That money isn't helping Americans get jobs or helping with mortgages or lowering their taxes. If you have $1000, do you take care of your house or you give $2000 through a credit card to charity?