Flying by Air- the carbon footprint

[katoeylover]

Anyone see the channel 4 documentary this week?

In no instances did they deny global warming, just the impact of man and co2 emissions.

A number of very prominent scientists, meteorologists and politicians put their name firmly into the skeptical camp.

They showed evidense that it is actually the pattern of sun activity that has more influence on our global climate than co2 emissiobs, and the head of the arctic research stationn stated that there is little change in activity. Cery interesting.

The last bit however was a bit dramatic. Blaming the pro global warming lobby on holding back the expansion of third world economies, and basically causing death and famine.

All in all a must view for all those who are falling for the hype.

[Torurot]

As I see it there has never been (a recent) denial that global warming exists, the only argument is to what extent Mankind is responsible for what % (if any) of it. So the anti warming lobby are only arguing that Man is having no/little effect, not that global warming per say is not in effect. Both "sides" agree the Sun cycles have an effect.

[Tomcat]

Its not surprising that the Warming deniers have a hard time after the Oil Companies were bribing Scientists for years to give false results....now they claim that the other side are up to the same....and that Maggie Thatcher started the whole thing warming thing..

At least the IPCC report has been peer reviewed and in actual fact is quite conservative given that its been waterd down as 113 countries had to agree on the public presentation. The full report is published in April and IMO i think its much much worse than they are saying. The Politicians have dumbed it down so no surprise here then.

C4
This Documentary was business as usual with no balanced reporting and plenty of sour grapes but at least the protaganists were upstanding even though no peer review was offerd up as a back up to the theorie on offer. .

Anyway Al Gore is flying over on Thursday so Cameron can kiss his green arse and i believe that the BBC are planning a debate.....

[Guest]

So Dr. John Christy Phd., professor and director of the Atmospheric Science Department at UAH and lead author of the IPCC report saying that man-made global warming is nonsense doesn't give TomCat the least bit of pause.

At this point, you have to assume that he has been given a vision from god and nothing would be able to change his mind.

[Tomcat]

(grunyen @ Mar. 13 2007,14:53) At this point, you have to assume that he has been given a vision from god and nothing would be able to change his mind.

Knowledge by revalation is not for me Grunyen. Are you suggesting that i dont deserve an opinion?. Sounds like more sour grapes to me....what a surprise!

quite extraordinary....

[katoeylover]

(grunyen @ Mar. 13 2007,06:53) So Dr. John Christy Phd., professor and director of the Atmospheric Science Department at UAH and lead author of the IPCC report saying that man-made global warming is nonsense doesn't give TomCat the least bit of pause.

At this point, you have to assume that he has been given a vision from god and nothing would be able to change his mind.

There are still a lot of well respected scientists who are in the man- made global warming camp.

Now it seems the British Government and opposition parties are seeing this as a great new way to introduce stealth taxes in the guise of protecting the environment.

Til someone from both sides actually enters a full on debate and sorts out the wheat from the chaff then there is going to be a lot of anti- global warming skeptics hanging around.

Again, back to the argument of the development of the Third world, China and India in particular. It matters not one iota what we do in the UK if these countries continue to develop at a rate that is unsustainable, and the changing of a few lightbulbs is just ...

[Tomcat]

From a news clip about Christy

"
Christy has also said that while he supports the AGU declaration, and is convinced that human activities are a cause of the global warming that has been measured..."

[Tomcat]

(katoeylover @ Mar. 13 2007,18:36) Again, back to the argument of the development of the Third world, China and India in particular. It matters not one iota what we do in the UK if these countries continue to develop at a rate that is unsustainable, and the changing of a few lightbulbs is just    ...

You make a very good point here KL.

I think Cuba is self sustaining, maybe Communism is the answer... (as i long as i can convert last!)

[rob69in]

I am definitely becoming more & more sceptical about global warming being souly a man made phenomenon. There was a channel 4 programme the other night which was very, very interesting, suggesting there was actually just as much evidance to support it being the natural cycle of the earth, & that scientists supporting this theory where not given credance as it does not support the wests political climate ( no pun intended ). There were also opinions voiced that it was also part of a scam to slow down the economies of developing countrys because places like China & India will soon, if not already, become a major threat to the wests economy.

If any of the information pushed out by the wests propaganda machine on this subject is to be believed, & the present histeria is doing nothing to get the masses believing / behind it, then UK represents 2% of the worlds "pollution". Then what we do won't make any difference at all in the big scheme of things. Oddly enough..... NOT .... its become the next moral high ground money spinner cash cow for the politicians to jump on the "we are greener than you" band wagon scam over the next round of ill thought out for profit only taxes to be levid on an over tax burdened population thats getting sick & tired of getting ripped off, especially by this farcical labour government whoes credability for most is nil.

In the UK it will be nothing more than a financial scam, an excuse to take more money in taxes, full stop. The goverment will benefit & absolutely no one else.

As an aside, i tried hard last year to bring down my house running costs, light bulb changing in the whole house, timers on standbys, most stuff we don't use reguarily turned off & unplugged, bricks in the toilet system so it uses less water, no tumble dryer usage at all, showers no baths, washing machine only used when full & on economy 7 night rates, water collected from the roof for car washing & the garden. None of my bills went down, they are dearer than the same time last year!

Whatever you do in the UK, you will be ripped off no matter what!   While ever this situation exists no-one amoungst the masses will have the slightest interest in global warming.

[stogie bear]

The world heats up, the world cools down. CO2 comes mostly from the oceans and a miniscule amount is manufactured by humans.

This global warming 'cause' is for hippies who need something to rebel against.

It's bad science and a clever politically driven force that keeps this massive swindle alive.

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Mar. 13 2007,22:04) The world heats up, the world cools down. CO2 comes mostly from the oceans and a miniscule amount is manufactured by humans.

This global warming 'cause' is for hippies who need something to rebel against.

It's bad science and a clever politically driven force that keeps this massive swindle alive.

Stogie I would say all your burps and farts cause more CO2 emissions than even China. So all we have to is stop you from eating those bloody baked beans and everything should be fine.

I will at this point plant my foot firmly in the we caused this global warming and if you actually do some research and understand very simplistic science you may come to the same conclusion. Not everything is a conspiracy in this world.

[Stewart]

From a news clip about Christy

"
Christy has also said that while he supports the AGU declaration, and is convinced that human activities are a cause of the global warming that has been measured..."

I have quite enjoyed this thread.....lots of good debate and argument, and almost a bun fight or two , but when I start seeing the same person being quoted as saying totally opposite things, my feeble little brain starts to hurt

Please explain

[Tomcat]

The point was that Grunyen mentioned that Christy was against the IPCC verdict. Then i find that Christy has said other things which make you wonder?

I actually found that info on a previous link from KL or roadrunner i think.

to be fair this is the whole paragraph.........

in a study presented to the Washington Roundtable on Science and Public Policy he said:
"I showed some evidence that humans are causing warming in the surface measurements that we have but it is not the greenhouse relation."
Christy has also said that while he supports the AGU declaration, and is convinced that human activities are a cause of the global warming that has been measured, he is "still a strong critic of scientists who make catastrophic predictions of huge increases in global temperatures and tremendous rises in sea levels."

[katoeylover]

The Oceans are the biggest source of co2, followed closely by trees and rotting vegetation.

[Guest]

TomCat, anyone is welcome to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

My opinion is that gravity sucks. That doesn't change anything.

Mark my words, global warming will be a passing phase. The downside is it will take a long time for people to shut up about it because they will always claim it is just around the corner and we are barely staving it off.


On a completely random note- I was just recently in the same hotel as Hillary. I couldn't stop thinking of the Stephen King book "The Dead Zone".