Flying by Air- the carbon footprint

[Stewart]

I want to ask this without raising his hackles, but I'm afraid Tomcat is hopelessly stuck in defensive mode now that he's sort of backed into a corner.

WTF? It seems to me that TC has always been pretty consistent in his confidence of the process of science. Being consistent is not being "backed into a corner"

[Guest]

(Stewart @ Feb. 24 2007,00:10) WTF? It seems to me that TC has always been pretty consistent in his confidence of the process of science. Being consistent is not being "backed into a corner"

If you read the recent developments in this thread, you will see that TC went a little AWOL

Now he's back posting some considered material, at least. So welcome back TC

As to starting a thread on God, well you should talk to the zig about that in the Academia Forum. Although he too seems to have gone AWOL lately

[Tomcat]

(ivana @ Feb. 23 2007,10:55) New Scientist spoon feeds unoriginal pseudoscience hype to non-scientists. New Scientist is a lay-nerd publication.

Invana
This is absolute rubbish. just look at the jobs section in the middle and then tell me if your living on the same planet. Research Scientists required...p67 and so on and on......

And this is the guy who tried to put up a fictional novel as Scientific Evidence... and they think im in a corner.. oh dear me!.....

[Guest]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 23 2007,17:48) MC has an agenda as you well know that he writes books and so he courts controversy. He should stick to Science fiction
Dont expect me to rely on this drivel.


Anyone who thinks that they can win an internet debate on a porno site needs medical attention.

Well, Crichton has an MD from Harvard and was a Scientist for many years before writing fiction. If you want to dismiss him so carelessly, at least you should go beyond the tip off about his role as an author Again a facile riposte This style does your cause no good at all.

As to winning a debate ? Who's talking about winning anything ? It's more a case of 'put up or shut up'. If you have something to say you'd better be ready to back it up, that's all. That means putting one's money where one's mouth is. Not obfuscating and dodging the issues.

Let's keep it simple

[katoeylover]

With regards to Hansens article, we have never disputed that the Greenland Cap is Melting, Just that it is forming and deppeing as quickly in other places.

The short of it is, is that whichever side you are on you can find evidence to back up your case.

Also Tomcat has always been consistent with his evidence and scientific facts..

[Guest]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 24 2007,02:26) Please do me a favour.... how can one quote a novel as evidence. Its fiction......

You are losing it TC. I know you are reluctant to read things, but even a cursory reading of the posts would show that I have been at pains to point out that the novel is irrelevant. You quote the novel. I refer to the lecture.

Quite extraordinary.

[Tomcat]

yes i know . i made an error hence the edit.. its been along day..apologies for that.

I still stick to my point that fiction cannot be transposed as fact.

And also i read as much here as i can..so stop the sniping.

[Guest]

It's very long days here too  

I'm sorry if you feel I am 'sniping'. It's not my intention. I enjoy a discussion, I just like to keep it honest and everyone on their toes.

I don't see this as a competition (either to convert, or to prove who is right/wrong). Just a good natured stoush I hope where everyone can debate the issues.  

But I stick to my point too. If someone posts a comment or reaction to another post, or seeks to genuinely enter into the discussion, then they should read more carefully (including any relevant links) before posting.

[Tomcat]

i agree

Its time for some light hand relief anyway ... the new pics are in... i do believe.....

a good evening to all...

[katoeylover]

I think for those of us who are on the disbelieving side are just amazed that a topic which was hardly talked about a couple of years ago, and then was called global warming, has suddenly become the biggest, baddest, meanest threat to the planet we have ever seen.

A sensible, scientific discussion has been taken by the media, at the heed of the Politicians and Green lobby, and is now CATASTROPHIC CLIMATE CHANGE, abrupt global climate change and other dramatic titles. We are all doomed and the planet, which has put up with a lot worse of the billions of years it has been here, will cease to be in less than 100 years, while at the same time, no laws are passed to protect this planet at all, but just more taxes levied on an overtaxed population.

If it is so desperate, then why are there no rigorous enforcement plans in operation?

And they wonder why we dont believe them...
Remember the shepherd who called wolf.

[Guest]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 24 2007,03:03) i agree

Its time for some light hand relief anyway ... the new pics are in... i do believe.....

Splendid idea

KL said :
"the biggest, baddest, meanest threat to the planet.."

Did you mean thread ?

[PigDogg]

(sangabriel @ Feb. 23 2007,05:04) I don't remember seeing a poll on religion.

I think a poll on religion would be a good one...

Not a poll but another spirited discussion.



Religion Thread

[Guest]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 24 2007,02:16)

(ivana @ Feb. 23 2007,10:55) New Scientist spoon feeds unoriginal pseudoscience hype to non-scientists. New Scientist is a lay-nerd publication.

Invana
This is absolute rubbish. just look at the jobs section in the middle and then tell me if your living on the same planet.   Research Scientists required...p67 and so on and on......

And this is the guy who tried to put up a fictional novel as Scientific Evidence... and they think im in a corner.. oh dear me!.....

I did not put up a fictional novel as scientific evidence.

And are your truly serious when you cite a classified ad as proof that New Scientist is a real scientific journal!?!

If a clever head-hunter ever advertises a job for a scientist after a Star Trek rerun, I'll bet you'll then think Star Trek is all about real science too.

[Guest]

James Hansen, the original scientist who played town crier for the GW theorists made predictions that turned out to be wrong by 300%.

By comparison, when NASA launched the mars probe, they announced that it would touch down 243 days later at 8:11 PM. They were off by 24 minutes; that was a few thousandths of a percent. Imagine your rent or car payment bill being too high by 300%.

Hansen himself said after ten more years studying the issue that the forces that produce climate change are so poorly understood as to be impossible to predict.

Hansen also created at least three different scenarios, with different predicted results. After the alloted time went by, he picked the one that was closest and said that was his accurate guess all along.

Let me play "pick the card" that way. I'll ask you which card ou picked and right after you tell me, I'll say "That's exactly the one I predicted you would pick".

[Guest]

(Stewart @ Feb. 24 2007,00:10) WTF? It seems to me that TC has always been pretty consistent in his confidence of the process of science. Being consistent is not being "backed into a corner"

I didn't say it was.

I was refering to his attitude of acting like a cornered animal. He got really nasty in tone.