A kinder gentler Britain!

[stogie bear]

And Browns brilliant response to all this?

"Well, it's not going away, folks!"

Brilliant! So that makes it OK, then!

[Tomcat]

(rayton @ Jul. 02 2007,08:22) the main problem with this topic is that it seems muslims are being associated with terrorists, and that is just plain ignorant.

Well they are the terrorists you brain dead moron. Its not 90 year old white little old ladies planting the bombs is it.

The people stirring this shit up are Muslims. they have no wish to integrate and i hope they never do...They have also created a backlash against themselves which wasnt around 20 years ago...

Rayton , you are an ignorant idiot. Just do a roll call of all the muslim countries and lets see how many are REALLY our allies.... the Saudis and the Pakistanis are financing the terrorist and then claiming to be our friends

[Guest]

the only people that have set off bombs where i live (north west england) are christians.
its not muslims or christians that are the problem its extremists. they'd still be bombing people if they weren't a member of those (stupid) religions.
all i'm trying to say is that labelling all muslims as bad is taking it too far- there's a big difference between the guy in my local muslim restaurant and osama bin laden, just like there's a big difference between my christian mum and irish bombers.

[Stewart]

the main problem with this topic is that it seems muslims are being associated with terrorists, and that is just plain ignorant.

I am on your side, but if you had chosen your words better, you would not have appeared so stupid

Of COURSE muslims are associated with terrorism....you call that observation ignorant, but it is blindingly obvious. What you MEANT to say, I hope, was that SOME, but not all, are associated.

Of COURSE catholics were associated with terrorism when the IRA was around, of COURSE animal rights and anti-abortion supporters are associated with blowing up labs and clinics...the list is endless.....but not "all".

Saying "all" is also plainly ignorant and just fuels the problem

[Stewart]

(tsadmirer @ Jun. 23 2007,16:28) I am overwhelmed by emotions and with tears in my eyes (honestly) after reading the replies. All I can say at the moment is THANK YOU ALL.  

Still feel the same way after that last set of comments?

[Tomcat]

the problem is Europe is not going wither away and will get worse and worse. the religeon of Mohammed is not compatible with the western way of life and never will be. How can it ever be so?....no one can answer this question ...there is no answer...

As the population grows the problem will get worse. there cannot be a reconciliation , already we have un official Aparthied in the UK. The Govt want to start forcable integration.....so much for freedom...

The majority of the UK populaton are not Sociolo
gists and you cannot expect them to understand the underlying reasons why Muslims blow themselves up.
I have read much about peer group adhesion and many other explanations why this is happening but at the end of the day you cannot blame people for hating...its human nature....Did the Govt tell people to love the germans in WW2.....

I have met many muslims and i have NEVER heard nothing but derision from them for our way of life and sour grapes. Someday in the future one will be forced to take sides...

[stogie bear]

Someday in the future one will be forced to take sides...

Exactly and that future and choice is less than a generation away.

[allstar88]

so much for the uk smoking ban, two pakis caught smoking at glasgow airport already      

[daveduke007]

Bet they dont get fined

[nigel69]

thankfully the "smoking" terrorists from the subcontinent, along with their medical friends ,will be in jail, with their fellow travellers, very soon.It was unfortunate that they didn't make it to the "virgins", or quite possibly "young boys", as suggested in the Koran.
It only goes to show that even the medical profession, which has an oath to "save lives"has been perverted by Islamofascists and their "holy" book.
When Islam so warps the minds of people who are educated enough to know about the mindless nonsense of "god/dog", through science & medicine, then there is no point in trying to "reach out" to this Community. When the Allies were at war they put their enemies in detention camps ( Germans in England and Japanese in the U.S.).It's time to start moving these primitives into camps, in the most inhospitable parts of the U.K. It's the only way to keep an eye on the Islamic traitors in your midst.
Their own communities are more likely to harbour and support these people, than to offer assistance to authorities, so none can be trusted.

[Stewart]

.It's time to start moving these primitives into camps, in the most inhospitable parts of the U.K. It's the only way to keep an eye on the Islamic traitors in your midst.
Their own communities are more likely to harbour and support these people, than to offer assistance to authorities, so none can be trusted.

Your solution is to put every muslim in the UK in prison? Every single one of them?

[rxpharm]

I posted this in the Islamic Jihad Terrorists in Thailand thread, but it probably should also go here:

Here is an interesting article published in the Nation - an op ed piece originally from the Observer UK paper:


Fellow Muslims: renounce terror
When I was a member of what is best termed the British Jihadi Network, a series of semi-autonomous British Muslim terrorist groups, I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror was Western foreign policy.


By blaming the government for our actions, those who pushed the "Blair's bombs" line did our propaganda work for us. More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.

Friday's attempt to cause mass destruction in London with car bombs is so reminiscent of other recent British Islamic extremist plots that it is likely to have been carried out by my former peers.

I left the BJN in 2006, but if I were still fighting for their cause, I'd be laughing once again. Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the July 7 bombings, and I were both part of the BJN - I met him on two occasions - and though many British extremists are angered by the deaths of fellow Muslims across the world, what drove me and many of my peers was a sense that we were fighting for the creation of a revolutionary state that would eventually bring Islamic justice to the world.

How did this continuing violence come to be the means of promoting this (flawed) utopian goal? How do Islamic radicals justify such terror in the name of their religion? There isn't enough room to outline everything here, but the foundation of extremist reasoning rests upon a dualistic model of the world. Many Muslims may or may not agree with secularism but at the moment, formal Islamic theology, unlike Christian theology, does not allow for the separation of state and religion. The centuries-old reasoning of Islamic jurists also extends to the world stage where the rules of interaction between Dar ul-Islam (the Land of Islam) and Dar ul-Kufr (the Land of Unbelief) have been set down to cover almost every matter of trade, peace and war.

What radicals and extremists do is to take these premises two steps further. Their first step has been to reason that since there is no Islamic state in existence, the whole world must be Dar ul-Kufr. Step two: since Islam must declare war on unbelief, they have declared war upon the whole world. Many of my former peers, myself included, were taught by Pakistani and British radical preachers that this re-classification of the globe as a Land of War (Dar ul-Harb) allows any Muslim to destroy the sanctity of the five rights that every human is granted under Islam: life, wealth, land, mind and belief. In Dar ul-Harb, anything goes, including the treachery and cowardice of attacking civilians.

This understanding of the global battlefield has been a source of friction for Muslims living in Britain. For decades, radicals have been exploiting these tensions between Islamic theology and the modern secular state for their benefit, typically by starting debate with the question: "Are you British or Muslim?" But the main reason why radicals have managed to increase their following is because most Islamic institutions in Britain just don't want to talk about theology. They refuse to broach the complex topic of violence within Islam and instead repeat the mantra that Islam is peace, focus on Islam as personal, and hope that all of this debate will go away. This has left the territory of ideas open for radicals to claim as their own.

Outside Britain, there are those who try to reverse this two-step revisionism. A handful of scholars from the Middle East has tried to put radicalism back in the box by saying the rules of war devised by Islamic jurists were always conceived with the existence of an Islamic state in mind, a state which would supposedly regulate jihad in a responsible Islamic fashion. In other words, individual Muslims don't have the authority to declare global war in the name of Islam.

But there is a more fundamental reasoning that has struck me and others who have left radical Islamic networks as a far more potent argument because it involves stepping out of this dogmatic paradigm and recognising the reality of the world: Muslims don't actually live in the bipolar world of the Middle Ages any more.

The fact is that Muslims in Britain are citizens of this country. We are no longer migrants in a Land of Unbelief. For my generation, we were born here, raised here, schooled here, we work here and we'll stay here. But more than that, on a historically unprecedented scale, Muslims in Britain have been allowed to assert their religious identity through clothing, the construction of mosques, the building of cemeteries and equal rights in law.

However, it isn't enough for Muslims to say that because they feel at home in Britain they can simply ignore those passages of the Koran which instruct on killing unbelievers. By refusing to challenge centuries-old theological arguments, the tensions between Islamic theology and the modern world grow larger every day.

Since leaving the BJN, many Muslims have accused me of being a traitor. If I knew of any impending attack, then I would have no hesitation in going to the police, but I have not gone to the authorities, as some reports have suggested, and become an informer.

I believe the issue of terrorism can be easily demystified if Muslims and non-Muslims start openly to discuss the ideas that fuel terrorism. (The Muslim community in Britain must slap itself awake from this state of denial and realise there is no shame in admitting the extremism within our communities.) However, demystification will not be achieved if the only bridges of engagement that are formed are between the BJN and the security services.

If our country is going to take on radicals and violent extremists, Muslim scholars must go back to the books and come forward with a re-fashioned set of rules and a revised understanding of the rights and responsibilities of Muslims whose homes and souls are firmly planted in what I'd like to term the Land of Co-existence. And when this new theological territory is opened up, Western Muslims will be able to liberate themselves from defunct models of the world, rewrite the rules of interaction and perhaps we will discover that the concept of killing in the name of Islam is no more than an anachronism.

Hassan Butt

The Observer


The solution to Islamic terrorism is not violence, repression, and suppression - this never will work in the long run - the Russians have tried it and still have problems. The glimmer to a solution may be found here - the only way it can be stopped is to convince Muslims just how wrong the terrorism is from their perspective. It can only be done by their own, whether they have renounced terrorism or are moderates who can win the day and it is up to the rest of us to support those who are trying to promote the change to non-violence and reject terrorism.

[stogie bear]

(Stewart @ Jul. 04 2007,08:57)

.It's time to start moving these primitives into camps, in the most inhospitable parts of the U.K.  It's the only way to keep an eye on the Islamic traitors in your midst.
Their own communities are more likely to harbour and support these people, than to offer assistance to authorities, so none can be trusted.

Your solution is to put every muslim in the UK in prison? Every single one of them?

Muslims should be repatriated forcibly and if they have lost their documents or don't want to be then they should be caged untill they suddenly remember where they are from.

Only by ridding the streets of all visible presence of this human stain will the UK ever be safe and trouble free.

What they do in their own strange countries is a matter for them and their Gods and not the concern of normal people living in proper countries.

Muddle minded idiotic dreamers who think that diplomacy and non violent means will win the day don't have much of a grasp on the way humans work and should pay more attention to history class.

[Stewart]

(stogie bear @ Jul. 04 2007,12:19)

(Stewart @ Jul. 04 2007,08:57)

.It's time to start moving these primitives into camps, in the most inhospitable parts of the U.K.  It's the only way to keep an eye on the Islamic traitors in your midst.
Their own communities are more likely to harbour and support these people, than to offer assistance to authorities, so none can be trusted.

Your solution is to put every muslim in the UK in prison? Every single one of them?

Muslims should be repatriated forcibly and if they have lost their documents or don't want to be then they should be caged untill they suddenly remember where they are from.

Only by ridding the streets of all visible presence of this human stain will the UK ever be safe and trouble free.

What they do in their own strange countries is a matter for them and their Gods and not the concern of normal people living in proper countries.

Muddle minded idiotic dreamers who think that diplomacy and non violent means will win the day don't have much of a grasp on the way humans work and should pay more attention to history class.

Well, that did not answer my question

My question was, all of them? Every single one?....or just the bad guys?

Do you believe that every single Muslim is a terrorist?
Or do you just want every Muslim deported? I would say that makes you a racist
If it is just the bad guys, and you would apply that solution to every race/religion, yes?

Do you believe I am a muddle minded idiotic dreamer?

[Guest]

it started with the Saxons and its downhill ever since.!