Thailand, kathoeys, Franck & the whole damn thing

[bbb2k2]

Pacman,

OK, so my quotes are out of context... I disagree, but it really doesn't matter. I try to figure out your angle here, and to me it seems you're a bit like your old friend Franck by being a guy who likes to create some drama. Drama is good and drama is what makes these threads go on and on, so please keep it up. I'm sorry I don't sound nice to you but I'm just telling it how I see it.

As far as I can understand from your posts you're "opening the eyes of the other BM's" and helping us put "Franck and his breaches of trust into perspective". This sounds like a noble cause by a person who claims to be the biggest victim of Franck's "breaches of trust". But do we really need this, do you really think the we (the other BM's) are so ignorant that we do not understand the magnitude of Francks scams?

Franck hasn't killed or raped anyone as far as I know. His crime is to scam moderate amounts of money from people who trusted him. Someone stole 20000 bath from me last November in Pattaya which made me a bit pissed for a while when I had to go back to hotel to get more money, but the next day it was all forgotten. If the same 20000 bath was stolen by a friend of mine it would upset me more since it would hurt much more to be betrayed by a friend. I hope you see the difference here. Many people felt they knew Franck from his diary and also from his bar, and I think this is one of the reasons why this gets so much attention. If bar owner YYYY from Bar XXXX did the same no one would care that much and there would probably just be a couple of comments about him being an asshole and a conman, and this is about how I feel about the whole thing. I never considered Franck a friend, he was just a bar owner in a bar I spent my money on booze and hookers.

I also think most people would be willing to partly forgive if Franck admitted his actions and actually showed some regret. To this day I haven't seen any signs of regret and as far as I can tell the guy probably thinks he did nothing wrong. In my opinion is rather stupid to "forgive" a grown man who doesn't admit he did something wrong, and I think we all can agree he did somehting wrong??

And Pacman you claim I never met Franc, which is completly wrong. I've spent close to 3 months in Pattaya the last year so I've guess I have more "hands on" experience than most of you guys. I have to admit I never had any bad experience with Franck myself, and all my information is based on information from forums like these and talking to people who knew him better than me (customers and LB's). Early I felt Franck was a rather creepy individual and my contact with him was just the normal nonsense chit-chat to strangers have in a bar and I never understood the "charm" some people talked about. To me he was just an old skinny man who liked to fuck young LBs, and not this charming pirate some talked about.

Oh well, enough ranting. I have nothing to forgive and I stil thinks Franck is a piece of shit and a conman like any other man doing the same as he did.

[pacman]

(laptop @ Jan. 08 2008,05:46) I think his response sums him up as a person. No apology or explanation. His reputation has gone further south now.

Rossco is a good lad and that was a very personal attack. I think it was very undeserved and it was pathetic.

Rossco there is nothing wrong with being small, especially when you are as handsome as us!

Hi Laptop.

Good post mate. Rational, clearly stated, no cheap shots with a little self-deprecation at the end.

I knew you had it in you.

Cheers

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

have spewed their hate...

Hmmm.... I must have missed these posts... maybe on another forum?

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

If the same 20000 bath was stolen by a friend of mine it would upset me more since it would hurt much more to be betrayed by a friend. I hope you see the difference here...

Early I felt Franck was a rather creepy individual and my contact with him was just the normal nonsense chit-chat to strangers have in a bar and I never understood the "charm" some people talked about. To me he was just an old skinny man who liked to fuck young LBs...

Good post and I agree with you on your assesment of Franck.

Still - now he's feeling all good about his defensive rant on Rossco perhaps he can summon up the strength to tell us if he regrets ripping off other punters. Maybe even an apology...

Of course not. That cowering Euro-trash has no remorse at all. His crocodile tears fool (almost) no-one!

[bbb2k2]

Pacman, another quote, lets hope this is NOT OUT OF CONTEXT:

But didn't you really give yourself away when in your previous post you called him a conman, piece of shit & a wanker.

Based on the information about the scams Franck did, don't you agree? If not what do a man need to do to be called a conman, piece of shit & a wanker in your world?

Maybe I misunderstood your posts but I thought you tried to get us to forgive Franck? Do you now say he did not do what's been claimed on this forum? And wouldn't you agree at least to call him a conman if this is true?

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

I have lived in Thailand for many years and I have met loads of conmen, wankers and shits... Thailand loves these people. I don't hate them though.

My old chum who I used to see quite a lot of in Thailand got talked into handing over wadfuls of cash in front of me by these sweet talking expat hot air balloons and I'd cringe as I know that this would be the last he ever saw of his cash.

Some of the excuses and reasons for this 'friendly extortion' would make you wonder if they were really even trying! And I wonder how much they could suck out of this fella if they really turned on the blubber fests!

They were as wily and as honest as the hookers they fucked at night!

[donnnnnny]

(rossco @ Jan. 06 2008,13:30) I have read and re-read the various opinions and everyone has the right to their own.

When I first met Franck he was a congenial guy trying to open a bar to satisfy our desires - he did do that.

He asked me for 50,000 to stock the bar with booze. I explained that he would only need 10,000 (case of beer is 600, Spirits 600 baht a bottle etc, Mixers) I offered him 20,000 baht and he said he would pay back within the month and offered me 20% interest per month. It took numerous visits and cajoling to get my money back and I did NOT take 20% per month.

I realised then that something was up. Request for 50K for stock was not honest. I also wrote a simple accounting system for him to help him manage his affairs. He actually used this to show someone he was "managing" the business. The worksheet was never completed and any records re trading from March to Sept are not usable. He lived day to day and that was it.

How could a guy say he had just invested 450,000 baht in a new bar but was short by 20K for stock (oh yes the bar was already partially stocked)

Initially I supported the guy and the bar on the forums but he kept crossing the wire - sure it is "whore town" but he made some huge errors of judgment that could have impacted many other bar owners. Promoting underage LB's - moderators had their hands full moderating a bar owner who should have known better.

The sites are monitored by BIB and too often he was exposing the scene. For a "visitor" it is up to you but for a resident let alone a bar owner he was playing a very dangerous game - not only for himself but his staff, his customers and other bar owners.

He spoke that he had lived in Thailand for 27 years - yet seemed so naive about the bar game/business.

He ignored advice from many people - good sound advice which would have helped him promote, make money and enjoy his preferred lifestyle.

Remember he only owned the bar for 7 months - March to Sept inclusive. He actually did not even own it - he was sub letting from the French leasee - this is not legal in Thailand and Franck had no legal claims on the bar. In fact Sam is still dealing with Franck's legacy with the Frenchman. Sam invested in "hot air" as there were no assets to recover etc.

He was an expert at spotting a "mark" and had incredible ability to conjure a story/picture to underpin his requirements. I never advised anyone NOT to lend - it was not my position to do so.

He must have asked at least 6 people for a loan for stock and at least that number again for assistance with his airfare!

What really made me angry was that in spite of all the advice from many forum members both here and other boards he was on a route to disaster. His lifestyle could never be satisfied by his earnings.

He borrowed money from staff and often got angry with the cashier when he demanded money which she would not give him.

The "parties" were with inflated prices - check out Stringfellows/Lita's party charge.

He then reduced LB's commission on LD and BF - all while richly entertaining his darling in front of the underpaid/unpaid staff.

I do think that he is an unpleasant character but would stop short at seeing any harm done. He was a pathological liar and always will be. Think what stories he must have told his wife and 16 year old daughter to cover his real activity?

Many of his "detractors" were once his supporters - Why? Because he was totally untrustworthy. My favourite quote from Frankspeare is the delusion of a person on the brink:

"I always follow my instinct even though I know it is wrong"

We were all a mark in one way or another and the stories I could tell (not money related) would fill a book. He seemed to spend his waking hours dreaming of a new scam. Commission to host a party because it was "his" idea. Asking parents of staff to "lend" money and he would take special care of their offspring.

We all have the right to our own feelings but actually he is the loser. He had a throbbing desire for LB's and he has destroyed his own ability to mix in that society in Pattaya.

Franck was always quick to point out the hurt he received BUT he never once considered the feelings of others that he did hurt personally.

He is 63 and I wish him well in the future - he has had his moment of fame and I hope the memories will sustain him.

PacMan, Sam, Batman, and many others have my sympathy and I can appreciate their disparate feelings - some are angry some live in hope and some just get on with it. It is an individual thing and not all of us will react in exactly the same way in any given situation.

thsi post seems to sum it all up
TIT

[pacman]

(bbb2k2 @ Jan. 08 2008,07:26) Pacman,

OK, so my quotes are out of context...  I disagree, but it really doesn't matter.  I try to figure out your angle here, and to me it seems you're a bit like your old friend Franck by being a guy who likes to create some drama.  Drama is good and drama is what makes these threads go on and on, so please keep it up.  I'm sorry I don't sound nice to you but I'm just telling it how I see it.

As far as I can understand from your posts you're "opening the eyes of the other BM's" and helping us put "Franck and his breaches of trust into perspective".  This sounds like a noble cause by a person who claims to be the biggest victim of Franck's "breaches of trust".  But do we really need this, do you really think the we (the other BM's) are so ignorant that we do not understand the magnitude of Francks scams?

Franck hasn't killed or raped anyone as far as I know.  His crime is to scam moderate amounts of money from people who trusted him.  Someone stole 20000 bath from me last November in Pattaya which made me a bit pissed for a while when I had to go back to hotel to get more money, but the next day it was all forgotten.  If the same 20000 bath was stolen by a friend of mine it would upset me more since it would hurt much more to be betrayed by a friend.  I hope you see the difference here.  Many people felt they knew Franck from his diary and also from his bar, and I think this is one of the reasons why this gets so much attention.  If bar owner YYYY from Bar XXXX did the same no one would care that much and there would probably just be a couple of comments about him being an asshole and a conman, and this is about how I feel about the whole thing.  I never considered Franck a friend, he was just a bar owner in a bar I spent my money on booze and hookers.

I also think most people would be willing to partly forgive if Franck admitted his actions and actually showed some regret.  To this day I haven't seen any signs of regret and as far as I can tell the guy probably thinks he did nothing wrong.  In my opinion is rather stupid to "forgive" a grown man who doesn't admit he did something wrong, and I think we all can agree he did somehting wrong??

And Pacman you claim I never met Franc, which is completly wrong.  I've spent close to 3 months in Pattaya the last year so I've guess I have more "hands on" experience than most of you guys.  I have to admit I never had any bad experience with Franck myself, and all my information is based on information from forums like these and talking to people who knew him better than me (customers and LB's). Early I felt Franck was a rather creepy individual and my contact with him was just the normal nonsense chit-chat to strangers have in a bar and I never understood the "charm" some people talked about.  To me he was just an old skinny man who liked to fuck young LBs, and not this charming pirate some talked about.

Oh well, enough ranting. I have nothing to forgive and I stil thinks Franck is a piece of shit and a conman like any other man doing the same as he did.  

First Laptop, now bbb2k2. What's going on? There's an outbreak of rationality around here that is going to put me out of a job.

I enjoyed your well reasoned post that makes you out in a better light. I don't take exception to any of the facts in your story but feel compelled to explain a few things.

Firstly my angle is not about drama, it is about being repaid a sizeable debt. The drama created by everyone having something to say about Franck was bound to happen. He attracts controversy & inflames opinions. What puzzles you & others is why I am not starting a lynching party. I don't want to go into that again. I have explained myself enough.

I am sorry to hear about your 20,000 baht, it has happened to me & I don't feel any better about it now. The difference with Franck is that he asked if I could help him & I did. You never read on here that I wrote: "Oh boo hoo, I have been tricked by a conman who I repeatedly sent money too." He made promises about repaying me but once his heart problems started then the time frame changed.

Hence I waited a good amount of time before revealing myself. Will I see my money, probably not.

The apology bit I agree with you completely, I just wrote an open letter to Franck to do just that.

I wasn't sure if you had met Franck but you were much quicker to quote the girls than him. And I do understand the difference between lending to strangers & friends. I envy your 3 months in Pattaya, wouldn't we all like an extended holiday in Fantasyland.

Because that's what Pattaya is, Disneyland with better rides. Old joke I know but it leads to my last point about glamourising Franck as the pirate. This whole scene is not complete without a cast of characters. It adds colour to every story, every post & imagine a trip report without them? Too boring to think about thus Franck was cast as the most controversial character in Fantasyland, oops, Pattaya. And he still is a character! Lying, thieving deceptive piece of shit though that he is - there you go bbb2k2, just for you.

Now you don't need me to explain again his fall from grace but I, along with others once enjoyed following his diary, his exploits, etc. That's in the past but to keep my points interesting I called him the pirate, knowing full well how incensed that would make some on here. And bb you did say you enjoyed my posts? I do my best to entertain my audience.

Hey bb I just read your last post & I am sure I have referred to Franck as a conman, made many references to his deception. I never defended the theft, I just wanted everyone to get some balance about this. If that makes me the bad guy I can't help you.

[daveduke007]

 For "FUCK SAKE" give it a rest pacman

[pacman]

(69billy @ Jan. 07 2008,20:23) HI Franck...
Nice to see you live ,well and kicking....Pattaya is not same without you...
I'll be in Pattaya from 6 to 21 Feb,,I still got the same phon#..If you like to have drink or two give me a ring..
Good luck and take care...

Hi Billy. I see you are not signing up for the lynch mob out to get Franck. Maybe you should think about it - he's a bad dude.
No-one works Pattaya better than you mate. You know places & girls that most of us can only dream about. But one person you won't be catching up with is Franck. He is still recovering but I may just be there myself & I was starting to think I will be drinking on my own.
I will be the guy sitting in the corner of La Bamba all by himself.
We did get to meet one night in 131, the first thing you asked me "who do you post as?" I had to admit to not ever having posted, because, well, just because.
Never did I expect such a baptism of fire, but I can only blame myself.
Hey Billy, you haven't got a spare cock ring I could borrow? In an unopened packet.
Cheers

[pacman]

(daveduke007 @ Jan. 08 2008,09:21)  For "FUCK SAKE" give it a rest pacman    

Thanks Dave. Your posts are always so helpful.
At least this one isn't as cryptic as a few you placed on this thread. I gave up trying to figure them out.
Anyway to put you out of your misery, I will rest this subject forever once I receive what is owed to me. Fair enough?

Dave I saw your invite to Mr Grumpy asking when he is coming for a beer. I am just wondering if after all this is over & I should ever decide to visit the UK with Franck would we be welcome in your place?
Hypothetical I know but I thought I would ask. If yes, what's the chance of shouting us a pint?

Good, I hope.

[Stewart]

(daveduke007 @ Jan. 08 2008,09:21)  For "FUCK SAKE" give it a rest pacman    

No don't!! This is great stuff....funny and self-depreciating

Keep posting Pacman!

[laptop]

I am always rational mate.

I spent 6 weeks in Pattaya in August/September. I visited 131 most nights and drank and chatted with Frank. I liked Noon and he "loved" Nikki. I would always spend my time with Noon but chat with Frank too. He was very polite and a good host. I wouldnt say charming but easy to talk to. I was engaged so I tried as much as possible not to fuck any ladyboys. He knew this so he didn€™t really force them on me. (Obviously I slipped up a couple of times. But Noon was the won I chilled with most nights)

Now I am 25 and Frank is 62 so obviously we were not the most compatible in the world. However we were able enjoy each others company. He used to bitch about Rossco and Rossco used to tell me about Frank. I decided to reserve my judgment on each to what I knew myself. Rossco was good craic and I had a great laugh with him and Sombat(gas man, he should be Irish).

Towards the end of my trip Franc seemed to be becoming increasingly desperate. HE NEVER ASKED ME FOR MONEY! However it was obvious that he was spending a fortune. I warned him about Nikki, as others had done, but it was clear he already knew. I told him there was no way an 18 cute lb like her was in love with him. I think he knew this but he was addicted.

Anyway after a couple of weeks back in Ireland the stories began to surface. Everything Rossco had said to me came true. As harsh as it is Pacman Frank is no better than a common thief. And while I did spend quite a bit of time with him my opinion has done a 180. No he didn€™t kill anyone. No he didn€™t rape anyone. But he fucking stole form friends who trusted him. You seem a nice guy and according to all sources Batman is one of the nicest guys around. But that€™s exactly why he targeted you.

Of course I don€™t want him hung drawn and quartered but I also want nothing more to do with him. It wasn€™t 1 drunken mistake but a series of calculated conjobs. Unfortunately his actions do make him a "scumbag" imo. And his last post did nothing to change my view. First it was flight and now its fight but no apology anywhere to be seen. Not for me, am not due one. But others are.

Its sad but now I have no respect for him and I cant help you defend him because his actions do make him a scumbag. And I don€™t think you will get anyone to change their mind. He is destroyed himself and he will be nothing but a walking joke if he does return to Pattaya.

I hope he regains his health but that€™s it. Pacman you are truly loyal but in the words of Warren Buffet - "If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." This is something you shouldn€™t try to defend. He did this to himself and he is a grown man.

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

You seem a nice guy... but that€™s exactly why he targeted you.

Enough said. It's funny how the people who were approached are amongst the nicest people I know. No names, but you know who you are.

[laptop]

(Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!) @ Jan. 08 2008,11:55)

You seem a nice guy... but that€™s exactly why he targeted you.

Enough said. It's funny how the people who were approached are amongst the nicest people I know. No names, but you know who you are.

Bollox! I wasnt approached. I am obviously a shit.