The Sad and Pathetic state of clubs in Thailand

[Mai-Kee]

 Absolutely!

This discussion is like moaning about snow in winter and no water in the desert.
"The money goes mainly to the mobster owners of the bars".... really??? "Short time rooms and toilets in Thai gogo-bars are much worse than those in the west".... really???  
We all know that we have in Thailand 5 star plus hotels of an incredible luxury standard for prices that would hardly pay a crappy room in NYC or London. And of course we have the other end which is far worse than anything in the west. What do you think, it's not a first world country. The same you'd find in Colombia, Venezuela, or Indonesia. Not to mention the PI's. That 's far worse than LOS. Try Angeles and you know what a seedy place is!
And you are living there and still compare the value of the money in Thailand with what you would get in the west...? I don't get it? Why did you move?
I personally hate Nana, Pattaya, etc... not because of the seedyness, more because I can't stand the pushyness and this awfull music.... but I take it as a given, like the 40 degrees and the humidity. That's part of the package and it's nothing wrong with it, only because I don't like it. I never had any problems to find what I want outside those locations. There are so many high-end venues , which are even better than in the west, that you don't need the Nanas of this world if you don't like them!

MK

[olekunde]

dougie, move back home! seems to me you just cant have a laugh anymore.

like most other longtime tourists you are now jaded, and do really miss some of the stuff back home. is it so the hookers dont want to deal with you anymore either?
why do you think you get crappy service? shit attracts flies...
go to bed club or q-club instead if nana isnt your scene. bring the ladies back to your luxurius home instead of fuck them on cumstaind sheets in crummy short time rooms ..

i think you should ask yourself why you choosed to be a long-time tourist in thailand. it *was* nana and the hookers. the cheap beer and the cheap hookers, wasn't it?
maybe you think you know the score, but you dont know shit. do you really belive anyone-fucking-one gives a shit if a "thai-guy" gets money from the beer we drink? the mob or the government i dont care. hell, i wouldnt care if the money had gone to greenpeace. when we travel half around the globe are these issues we should worry about? and really, do you?

of course its worth it, i dont even know if im paying 80 or 130 for a beer, i dont really care. i just fucking love the spectacle in nana, patpong and pattaya. and i dont need a poof to tell me i am a lowlife or rough-neck - me, who come from the crib of wealth and fortune, norway, and you a guy who frequented the truckstop-shitpits, bah-haha .

sorry if this got a little personal, but you started it, and also you was way-off the topic.

btw, have they or do they have any plans installing a pool table in guess bar?

[Guest]

(ozzie @ Dec. 05 2006,17:23) I think there is too much over analysis going on here. Simple questions you must answer to yourself is do you enjoy it when you are in there? Are you happy to pay what they want for the privilege? If the answer is yes then keep doing it. If the answer is no then move on.

I do think the attitude of the expats is different to us guys who only come on vacation.  I actually like the shit pits I guess because it is different to what I can get back home.

I also love sitting at big dogs and watching the world go by and lounging around at the Guess bar looking at some hot ladyboys whilst listening to music and chatting to friends all depends on my mood.

   

I agree with what you have said i have lived in sydney most my life and there are some dodgie bars there.
The difference in thailand ,singapore malaysia and manila there not in your back yard. You don't have to worry about being seen or watched, these places there are people doing ,wanting to do what you want to do also.

Its the different experence the culture the experence of the doing what you want to do.

Many guys who have posted here are multiple vistors to los and other cities world wide. If you take the good and the bad and at the end of the day you want to or do come back you must have had a good time and the experence has touched some part of you. If it was such a shit hole and when you left you did not want to return than dougs right.

I will be back to drink at big dogs to meet the guys from here to bang some thai arse and pussy and enjoy myself and when i am done i will head back to humdrum life and plan the next trip.


   

[Guest]

Bar price
dam in a sydney bar u can get sluged 10 a beer in singapore its 15 bucks at ot in malaysia i stayed crystal crown once cost me 15 usd a beer yes i payed i was bored
then some dumb spetic tank shouted me the next two

Rip offs happen its a fact when planning a trip any where
live long and prosper

 

[bangkoksins]

I have lived here 15 years or so. I do not think Nana etc is expensive. I think it and the Patpong, Cowboy are crap or perhaps I just outgrew them.

Dough have you been to some places in Soi 33? Might be what you are looking for. Or try Gullivers.

But I have no objections to paying 250 Baht plus a beer in places where the girls keep their clothes on and have a regular job and would not understand the term bar fine if you dared to ask them.

But as a poster before said, these are girls. However you will find LB's in The Bed, in The Q Bar (very, very rarely now) and in other bars. Plus you can find loads of LB's on the net who will take you out to restaurants, bars etc etc.

But maybe I am missing the point....

[kahuna]

And what makes my trip to Thailand any different than my holiday in Maui, Miami or New Orleans?

I'm sure I pay more than the locals on those holidays as well...But I do it with a smile and leave with
a smile...

[Bravo]

Seems like Doug has hit the wall! A lot of guys seem to go through this when they have been here a while. The scene gets jaded, prices (which are high) seem astronomical.

But the bars in Nana, Patpong etc. are whorehouses and their only intantion is to get as much money out of you as possible for the minimum investment.

If you want other choices well most of the hotels have bars with more than the odd freelancer hanging around, plenty of nightclubs, Irish pubs and sports bars to choose from. And, if you want a change a scene there is cheap and east travel to Pattaya, Hua Hin, and all the islands. And with Hong Kong, KL and Singapore all just a couple of hours away the choice seems fairly decent.

[dommy6]

Hi Doug.

Can't say I agree with you much.

As for some of the points u also make, the only thing I agree is about the pushy girls and the toilet facilities. I don't really care that much for NEP etc anyway. But as far as I am concerned they are not that bad and provide value for money. You will never get that same level of service back home for the money out layed. Provided you can find anything close enough.

I admit I haven't travelled to LOS as much as some of you guys but I think Mai Kee and Bravo pretty much sums up what I would say about the level of quality entertainment in BKK.

If you want top notch swanky hi so places and they are there don't expect to pay 80bt for a beer. Their expenses are higher. But again value for money Bkk still can't be beaten here at home. Try the Soi 33 bars. It costs more but the places are better. And the girls speak better English. Oh and my one Soi 33 girl was great in bed. But can't guarantee the next one will be the same.

Another place mentioned is Gulliver's. I like this place. One of the reasons is that is a nice looking place. Wouldn't really call it swanky but very nice. And the toilets are great. It reminds me of similar places back home we have here. But you know what the big difference is? Most of the girls are available. Can't say that here.

And that is the whole point of all this. And of why we are on this forum. Thailand isn't like it is at home. Don't know for how long. Enjoy while you can.

Also you make some invalid statements.

You say.

(Maybe your preferences run towards the later, but I'd at least like to fuck a girl on a mattress that isn't stained with the cum and sweat of 100's of other guys.  Ugh.  I mean, come on, there's a limit)

So why use them? What do u expect when you pay $10.00 for a room? The oriental? Why not take her back home? Frankly I can't see the point of spending good money on your hotel and then taking a girl to a short time room. I mean one of the features of a Thailand trip is having an intimate experience in the comfort of your hotel room.

You say.

(I guess that's my beef.  If I'm going to walk into a place like Obsessions and pay double what I'd pay elsewhere)

Elsewhere? Where? Are there other ladyboy venues we don't know about?

You say.

(Here's my little cost-of-living equation that I use to figure out how much things really cost:  multiply the dollar value by four and you'll get what that thing FEELS like to a Thai salary.

So if a beer cost 160 baht, that's $4.00 real money, and that seems pretty cheap, right?  but it FEELS like a $16.00 beer!!

Ask yourself that next time you're in Big Doggs or some other place.  Look around and say, "Is this place really worth $10 to $20 a beer?"

Because that's what you're paying)

I'm really confused here. If I pay 160bt for a beer it costs me 160bt. Not 4 times that much. What is your point here? Are you implying you are on a Thai salary? If so then that is your choice. Your economics don't apply to me.

You say.

(The girls don't make any money from beer sales.

Why should they?

b) That money goes entirely into the pockets of a bunch of old Thai business men (gangsters) who manage those places and who own the rental contracts on)

So they should. It's their business. (I thought a lot of these bars are owned by farangs)

You say.

(They're probably paying 15 or 20 baht for that beer wholesale, and turning around and selling it to you yokels at 130 to 190 baht a bottle.  That's a 800% to 1200% mark up!  And what do you get for it??)

So what? Remember you are going into a club to drink and be entertained (I know this is questionable). Even the mafia has to pay rent, salaries, utilities, capital investment misc expenses and re coup their investment. Business is tough. Try it sometime.

You say.

(A bunch of girls who are about half as pretty as any of the ones you'd find in the average mall here.  Irritable and pushy waitstaff.  And the privilege of paying another $15 (remember that FEELS like $60) just to take her out of the bar.)

That's your opinion. Some are pretty some are not. Same as in malls. However in malls girls are not readily available. Mall girls are ordinary girls. Are you saying all Thai girls are whores? Because that is bullshit. .99.9& are not. And come on, barfines are all part of the game. we all know the reason for this.

You say.

(She gets 1000 to 1500 baht from you (and I highly doubt she gets to keep all of that), and the mafia guys who run those places get at least as much (and often much, much more) from you in bar fines and beer sales.)

What a girl does with her money is her business. I doubt she kicks money upstairs to the mafia. And so the mafia should get the part of the proceeds of the barfine and beer sales. It's their joint.

You say.

(So half (or more) of the money you spend in those places goes to some wrinkled old Thai gangster and what do you get in return?  NOTHING)

Well that depends how much I spend in their joints. I hope I at least get a beer. Last time I did.

Regards.

[Guest]

[stogie bear]

It's a good debate this...

I'm with Doug on a lot of things and I don't feel 'jaded!' I didn't come to Thailand for the shitpits but they ended up being there so I made use of them despite how dirty and squalid they are. there wasn't a 'Guess Bar' back in them days, although I did enjoy The Honey Bar.

Not sure I'd agree or care too much about drink prices and gangsters! I don't care how much it costs but I DO care about being ripped off. If the beer is 500 Baht and it's clearly marked that's fine by me. But if the beer is 20 Baht and I'm being charged for an extra one then you've lost me (and everyone I can tell) for life!

The shitpits SHOULD have cleaner toilets. Who wants to pay 135 Baht for a beer when the urinal smells like an aboriginies puke. The wait staff SHOULD NOT be hassling me for drinks and the girls should not be trying to pick my wallet before I even sit down!

I'm not jaded at all. I never liked these places from my very first day in Thailand and I don't like them less or more now.

The thing that doug missed in his posts is that there are alternatives, even for the 'middle class' expat. But that has been pointed out by many respondents of this thread. It's finding these places that takes a while when you live here.

I don't know any expats who ever go to Nana for a drink to unwind. It's insane. They definitely wouldn't be seen dead in Patpong or Soi Cowboy unless they were 'entertaining' visitors from abroad.

The best point made so far is that actually - in reality - many people come here for the seediness trip and they get what they expect. In this regard then Nana et al does provide the tourist service that the heady planning of a fornight off work promises.

Great thread...

[mardhi]

The reason people go to Nana, Patpong, Cowboy etc is to get laid and watch birds dancing with virtually nothing on. Other venues you dont see them in that style of dress and in real bars and clubs you may end up running a risk of rejection if you ask the wrong girl, or even worse a smack in the face from her or her boyfriend. To talk about Q Bar is not comparing a like for like product nor at a like for like price. Many of the girls in Q bar are not hookers and nor are they looking to fuck a farang on the first night, if at all. Thats the debate - go somewhere half decent and you can spend 10k and get nothing out of it in terms of a lay. Nana is a guaranteed shag - its simple. Soi 33 - well that place is just ripoff heaven - the women are no better than Nana except maybe slightly older and probably speak better English - but they aint better educated for the most part.

Cheers
Mardhi

[doug]

Guys, I'm not jaded. I know the deal, and I know the alternatives exist. I'm just bringing up a pet peeve of mine, and I'm not about to go on some holy crusade to clean up Nana/Patpong/Cowboy. I'm just saying they are shitpits and anyone who goes in there is getting ripped off, at ANY price.

(dommy6 @ Dec. 05 2006,23:13) What do u expect when you pay $10.00 for a room? The oriental? Why not take her back home?

Um... I live here. That means I have neighbors, a job, etc... Maybe back where you live, your mom let's you bring prostitutes into your bedroom and your neighbors all high-five you when you bring home a two-for-one special, but around here (as in pretty much every other normal place in the world), that kind of thing is generally frowned upon.

If I want to have a job and any friends, then what I do at night is best not mixed up with what I do during the day.

Oh, and that's not $10 a night for a room, that's $10 for a few hours. And they are going to turn around that room in under 5 minutes right after you leave, so they're probably renting the same room three or four times a night.

Considering you can get a DECENT hotel room in this city for around $20 a night, it doesn't seem like too much to ask to expect the short-time places to change the sheets more frequently, put out some rat traps and maybe disinfect the place now and then.

Again, I'm not asking for the fucking Ritz, I just don't see why anyone would "enjoy" the "seedy" experience of smelling rat shit, dried old cum, and moth balls while you're trying to get your freak on.

Please tell me why that makes me a "poof", just because I want clean sheets and some soap and towels for my $10.

(dommy6 @ Dec. 05 2006,23:13) I'm really confused here. If I pay 160bt for a beer it costs me 160bt. Not 4 times that much. What is your point here? Are you implying you are on a Thai salary? If so then that is your choice. Your economics don't apply to me....

.....Even the mafia has to pay rent, salaries, utilities, capital investment misc expenses and re coup their investment. Business is tough. Try it sometime.

No, I'm not on a Thai salary. But what I'm saying is that the owners of those businesses have Thai-level expenses, not Western. So to them, a $4 beer feels like a $20 beer would to a London or New York club.

So everything that the $20-beer club provides in New York, these places COULD provide at $4 a beer and they'd STILL be raking it in.

So it's not as simple as saying a 160 baht beer is a $4 beer and that's it. Because these places don't exist in a vacuum.

You have to factor in cost of living (and for the bar owner, the cost of doing business). So when you're comparing prices to back home and you're saying, "Golly! A $4 beer in a girly-bar! That's dang cheap!", well, it ain't cheap.

A 160 baht beer here is equal to a $15 to $20 beer back home. Not in real dollars, but in relative dollars. You can't make a crude forty-to-one comparison of the baht to dollar, because that's not valid.

Look at it this way. If Adobe tries to charge you $700 for a 10 cent plastic disk with bits of data on it, that's a good deal, because Adobe has to pay a lot of very expensive people for a very long time to make a very complex program (like Photoshop) and they deserve to make their money back plus a profit. But if a pirate tries to charge you $100 for the same disk, he's ripping you off. Because even though the disk is MUCH cheaper, it cost the pirate NOTHING to produce it. He could charge you $5 a disk and still make a killing.

So my economics do apply to you, because no matter what YOUR salary is, these guys have neglible expenses (in real dollars compared to an NYC bar), and yet they are charging you a premium. So again, I ask you to look around next time you are in one of those shitpits and think to yourself, "This is what I get for $20 a beer?"

(dommy6 @ Dec. 05 2006,23:13) Well that depends how much I spend in their joints. I hope I at least get a beer. Last time I did.

Yep, you'll get a beer that costs 20 baht down the street. But you'll pay that bar owner 150 baht for it and you'll also pay him a bar fine of 600 baht too. So bare minimum you're giving him nearly as much as you give the girl, and at least she gives you a shag for it.

The bar owner, on the other hand, gives you nothing. He could charge you 50 baht for that beer and still make a killing, but he's charging you triple that, and in return he gives you scummy toilets, sticky seats and his wait staff is going to shit all over you too.

[stogie bear]

Fuck me, doug... I hope you go back and edit that post!

[doug]

(stogie bear @ Dec. 06 2006,02:40) Fuck me, doug... I hope you go back and edit that post!

Don't know what happened to it, but I think I fixed it. Should be alright now, yes?

[katoeylover]

Doug,

I dont get your points re pricing.

The margins you are talking about on alcohol exist all over the world. In the Uk a bottle of bud/stella/miller/ etc costs 0.35p. This is the same whether you are in Manchester, liverpool or central london. However in london they cost double usually as other places and in strip clubs more. Most popular bars will make a 300-400% markup on these items.

"it feels like $16" - rubbish it feels like 150bt, what this buys in Thailand doesnt bother us, but it does buy me a seat in a fantastic bar with the best view in the world (at 1.05am!!).

Also, by the way, when on holiday I am spending in £'s as that is what i earn.