The Sad and Pathetic state of clubs in Thailand

[doug]

(katoeylover @ Dec. 06 2006,02:43) Doug,

I dont get your points re pricing.

The margins you are talking about on alcohol exist all over the world. In the Uk a bottle of bud/stella/miller/ etc costs 0.35p. This is the same whether you are in Manchester, liverpool or central london. However in london they cost double usually as other places and in strip clubs more. Most popular bars will make a 300-400% markup on these items.

"it feels like $16" - rubbish it feels like 150bt, what this buys in Thailand doesnt bother us, but it does buy me a seat in a fantastic bar with the best view in the world (at 1.05am!!).

Also, by the way, when on holiday I am spending in £'s as that is what i earn.

Well, I guess some of you want to defend the shitpits just for the sake of being contrary.

I don't understand it, but OK, if you want to pay a premium to get less.... up to you.

The "feels like $16" thing isn't rubbish, but I'm not an econ major, so I can't really explain it very well. I thought I did a pretty good job with that software-company vs. software pirate example, but I guess that got glossed over by you when you read my long rant. Oh well, please re-read that part as it explains my point pretty well.

To sum it up:

- It doesn't matter how much money YOU make.

- If a software pirate tries to charge you $100 for a Photoshop CD, he's ripping you off, period. It doesn't matter that you're still getting a great deal compared to the original.

- His cost is zero, and so ANY price he charges is pure profit. You could pick up a student version of Photoshop at a college bookstore for $100, but the pirate is trying to get $100 from you as well.

- So you could get the same product somewhere else for the same price and the pirate's cost is zero. So what does HE give you for your money? Nothing.

Likewise, you could get a beer and a nice show at dozens of bars in Bangkok for equal or less money. And a shag may not be guaranteed, but it's easy enough to come by without trying too hard.

So what does the Nana bar owner give you for that premium profit he's making on your beer and barfine?

He gives you nothing. Period.

And that's pretty much all I've got to say on this topic. My rant energy is spent...

[rxpharm]

Doug, I think the model is not the Nana bar owners are software pirates - really where else can you get the product they are offering?

If you really want lb action (or maybe you are talking about the gg bars there too), there are not many alternatives. So they are providing a place where the lbs can offer their services.

It has already been discussed ad infinitum there are other places you can get more service (for ggs) for a higher amount of money, so the analogy of software piracy does not fit the model here.

Regardless of that, though, you are right in the fact that all of us say that the Nana and Patpong bars are far from customer service oriented. The problem is there are no current alternatives except for the Guess Bar at for lbs.

So would you be willing to pay the prices that the Renoir painter bars charge for the ggs, if they had lb staff and offered that level of customer service? Now that is the question that you need to be asking.

[stogie bear]

doug, you are a bit thin skinned and are reacting to other peoples' comments as if it's personal. It isn't and we don't know you, so it won't be. You must admit that even if your arguement is sound, your writing style is not. Also - it sounds a little bit as if you are a socialist that is putting down 'the man' for making a living.

No-one, even people living here, gives a hoot about the overheads of a few Chinese mafioso! Your original points about us demanding more bang for our buck are sound and I agree with them. But clearly we are in the monority of people who see the shit pits for what they are today and not what they could be tomorrow.

I'm inclined to sympathise with the tourists who want as much 'fucky fucky' as possible in 10 days, but I must admit that living here I don't actually go through this so I long for the day when they will clean the toilets and start exercising a more 'Western' business model to their bars.

I have no problems with the bar owners and how much they charge. I can walk away from that easily. I do have a beef with the fact that it's so easy to clean the bogs and not hassle the customers that it should be done as a matter of course at any business.

[divertwo]

..Well said Stogie......seems Doug is angry that an entrepenour has a product "LB Bar" that he can get away with charging a lot while providing minimal services. Not unlike any other business where a monopoly exists. Just take a look at pharmaceutical companies that invent a product, hold the patent, with no generic equivalents available from other producers..............Maybe the Guess bar can begin to change the business model for LB Bars.....at the very least, it will do that for all the Forum members that are in the know..........

...oh by the way, Kahuna...please bring your tourist dollars to the islands.........Aloha

[olekunde]

for you guys that stay for longer time, i thought you by now had realized that every business in the tourist traps, wheter is nana, patong in phuket, patpong or koh samui, is to "rip off" tourists. not too please the stingy and grumpy ex-pat.

but about the beer prices you are wrong. have you been to the thai gogos in saphan-kwai?? equally expensive beer and booze there.
i never heard of any beer that cost 20b in bkk, but i had lao-kao shots up north for 5 or 10b/shot. (a couple of them and you're ready to go .. unfortunately for me i went on by my bike ..)

and about the service, its the way you are and who you are. i was in upstairs bar with a older thai guy and the fucking touts wai'ed me too. even took care my drink if i was empty or out of ice.

no place on the planet can you get som much lb action for so little money as in thailand.
smelly toilets, goddamn, are you guys gonna move in there?

this is bollocks, i would rather hear some real complaints. over how shy the girls are and not into perv stuff, but "expensive" beer and smelly toilets .. sheeeeet!!

[Mai-Kee]

The math doesn't work! If you pay for a stolen Picasso 10,000 USD from a crackhead round the corner, who found it in some nice upper east side apartment - it's 100% his profit but still worth 50 million! So what's the point? The value of something doesn't depend on the margin of a sales man - it's what it's worth for you and objectively compared to what I get for this price somewhere else and what others are willing to pay for it. (... called "market")  If someone finds a niche to make a nice margin, fine, still it's worth more! So the software pirate is making his 100% compared to what he invested - but what you have in hands is still worth more, so both of you made a deal account of the producer! Well done!
To put this thought further, a bar owner who invests shit and sells you girls who are worth a lot more on the free market, it goes account of the girls - and that's globalization - or sex tourism....

MK

[kahuna]

(divertwo @ Dec. 06 2006,04:54) ...oh by the way, Kahuna...please bring your tourist dollars to the islands.........Aloha

I just paid my Hawaiian dues...Sent my daughter to the Grand Wailea for a week...cost me 3k...

Just one of the joys of parenthood guys...

And doug is complaining about paying an extra 50 bht for a beer...

[PigDogg]

(Mai-Kee @ Dec. 05 2006,04:24) I personally hate Nana, Pattaya, etc... not because of the seedyness, more because I can't stand the pushyness and this awfull music....

I think you hit the nail on the head Mai Kee.

I don't need a fancy bathroom to take a piss, who cares.

But there's a few simple things a barowner can do to improve the customer experince.

Lowering the music doesn't cost a cent.

Most customers want to drink, buy ladydrinks and have a good time. Strong management must prevent the internal competition for customers among the bargirls to deteriote into a bad experiience for the customer.

Being mobbed at the door does not put an extra baht into the owners pocket.

Now I'm sure it's not easy to manage a staff, especially staff that's hopped up on hormones and yabba.

What we customers want is really pretty simple though.

[thaibound]

(doug @ Dec. 05 2006,13:07) - So you could get the same product somewhere else for the same price and the pirate's cost is zero.  So what does HE give you for your money?  Nothing.

sorry, doug, but your economic analogy falls apart as soon as the second software pirate shows up with a competitively-priced disk and i get to negotiate.    
until there is an alternative to Nana where i can see beautiful ladyboys mostly naked for the price of a beer -- whatever that price might be -- and choose my favorite to come to my hotel with the relative security of knowing that this girl risks mamasan's ire should she steal or in any way rip me off -- then what the Nana bar owner gives me is -- the only show in town.  filthy toilets be damned.

[nigel69]

my frequent visits to LOS are to experience the atmosphere of naked or near naked ladyboys dancing and showing me their arses and cocks.Where else can a lb lover go in this World where there is a smorgasboard of delights to chose from.Australia,U.K,U.S.A.etc do not have exclusive lb clubs that contain anything from 20-50 lb's of all shapes, sizes and looks.It would be great if we had a high Western standard everywhere we went but I for one am willing to sit amongst the flesh, be told how well they are going to suck my cock and pay prices we could only dream of in our home Countries.As I only purchase a couple of drinks 3-400 baht I can easily live with it to get hold of a lb fantasy that is going to look after me all night for 2-3000 baht.
I am sure that if more bars like Guess do open up we lb lovers will gravitate towards them and the shit-pits will have STIFF competition in more ways than one.
Competition , in the greatest traditions of the West, will sort out where we wish to be , as time goes by.

[bangkoksins]

Doug. Personally I think you are analysing all this far too much.

Was it in your first post you said you were annoyed that one of the girls in a bar touched your head.

Just remember you are not Thai. Nana etc are not made for Thai's. It is all aimed at farang's. Even if you get PR you will never be Thai.

I also do not understand why on earth you keep going on about prices.

Your Adobe example makes no sense at all. It has nothing to do with ripping off and everything to do with supply and demand.

Also as Stogie I think said, most expats here never visit Nana, Cowboy, Patpong unless entertaining overseas guests. You obviously do.

When I have to take some guys out for a drinking session at Nana or wherever I know what to expect. I do not get upset with it, or annoyed at what you think is unfair pricing. Shit, 150 Baht is a pretty cheap drink to see half or even fully naked women moving around, or groping you or more...

When I go out with some other guys that live here, I know we will be going to better places.

You really should chill out imho and decide what you want, or alternatively do what some farang have done and open a bar and show the world how it should be done. But I do not recommend it.

[Guest]

I agree with Doug on most points and I am a medium term resident of Bangkok for 6 years.

What pisses me most off about the clip joints in Nana and the attitude of the staff there is that if they tried pulling off the same shit on the Thais they would be thrown out on the street. What do you think would happen if they pulled a bill padding number on a Thai? Or started demanding tips just for delivering a napkin? Ever notice how staff don't like foreigners bringing Thai friends into these bars? For obvious reasons.

The landlords of Nana don't give a shit either about safety of the patrons there. If a fire goes they wont give a fuck how many farang die there as long as they get to collect the insurance.

Rightly or wrongly most of the staff and girls at these places have fuck all respect for foreigners (like many other Thais) and act accordingly. We are all viewed in the same way. And that doesn't bother me so much as I can have a better life than most of them anyway. What pisses me off is the arrogance and the fact that they can't take it being served back at them. They treat us like shit but expect to be treated with respect back. Go figure.

Basically the best strategy is walk in there, grab the girl, treat her nice and pay her fairly. But don't expect love or respect because in most cases you wont get it. And if you don't let that bother you you should be OK.

[JackG]

I agree with most of what Doug said in his first post in this thread and I discussed it with a friend, by e-mail, who is also a frequent visitor to the Kingdom.  He had a different slant on the subject and I thought it would be worth posting here, with his permission, of course:

"There is one thing he left out and that I have referred to numerous times in emails over the years: to wit--acreage.  If you add up all the acreage of the Patpong bars and the NEP and Cowboy it does not equal the acreage of some of the Wal-Mart parking lots west of the Mississippi.  And this is supposed to be the great sex destination Bangkok?  What a laugh.  The only conclusion you can draw is that most men are NOT interested in sex.  People like to paint a picture of men from all over the world descending on BKK to have sex.  Ok, where are the men by the locust numbers and where are the tens of thousands of acres of bars and whore houses?  Answer--it and they do not exist.  It is all a lie and lots of hypocrisy from men all over the world.  Most men are NOT interested in sex.  Many years ago I used to tell Thailand sex stories at work to men.  Mistake.  No one was interested.  They wanted to talk about baseball or football.
Dana"
His e-mail address is: [email protected]

[Guest]

(doug @ Dec. 04 2006,20:58) OK, let me first start out by qualifying a few things:

ya de ya de ya... (edited out by Stogie to save space!)

What say you, gents?  Who's with me!  (John Belushi-ish "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!" and charge out of the room!)

wow u really come acroos as a right dickhead,
You live in thailand you say yet have so much contempt for the place.

basically if you dont like he place why dont you just piss off and find somewhere better  LMFAO

Funny how guys who have never put a baht into the entertainment biz in Thailand always have bright ideas on how the place shoulda coulda woulda be

If you think you can do better why not put your money where your mouth is and do a bar yourself LMFAO

Mafia types making money of you LOL
take an average bar in nana 80 girls per say at 12k each per month

service staff, bar tenders, electric, key money, rent, police payments, sign tax, bribes for showing tits biggers bribes for more and then fines for getting caught showing tits even though u pay the cunts to turn a blind eye, on and on it goes, oh and dont forget the 20 million baht plus to even buy a bar in nana,

average bar in nana will come out with 300- 400k profit a month providing you dont have to pay to many fines that month, hardly big money after the money you have to lay out to  get into the biz

next time learn facts before shooting your mouth off,

I do agree with you on those pushy LB bars though especially KK3 its a fkin knightmare to try and sit down and get a drink before being hammered by 10 LBs for a drink that really pisses me off, and i spend loadsa baht just like to choose who i buy a drink for not be told

rammy  

pps oh blew past Guess bar and its average as shit in a craphole beer bar complex had 4 or 5 average looking lbs and 3 or 4 old tatooed white haired geezers in it suping on a beer looking bored shitless

and that was at 10pm on a saturday night LMAO

[mardhi]

(Rammstein @ Dec. 06 2006,14:05) pps oh blew past Guess bar and its average as shit in a craphole beer bar complex had 4 or 5 average looking lbs and 3 or 4 old tatooed white haired geezers in it suping on a beer looking bored shitless

and that was at 10pm on a saturday night LMAO

You must have flew past Guess Bar 3 days into it's soft opening if it was a Saturday night as on the last Saturday, with the schoolgirl party in full swing, at 10.00pm there were approx: 40 people in the bar, maybe more. But having said that, Guess Bar is not setting out to be a direct competitor to the mainstream gogo's in Nana - it never could be - for one thing it does not have the size, the staffing or the passing trade. If anything it will compliment the Nana gogo's - I could easily see newbies who up to now have been scared shitless of walking into a LB gogo, gently easing themselves into the scene by using a bar such as Guess. Once comfortable, I would have no doubt that they would feel more confident in frequenting the more full on gogo's.

Personally I believe the bigger gogo's have nothing to fear from Guess bar - if anything, they will help make the market larger as its a half way house. Clearly the model is working for the gogo's in Nana despite the pet peeves of anybody on this forum as they still go to them.

Cheers
Mardhi