Ladyboy relationships

[stogie bear]

So, I'm just struggling to understand why a LB is any different from a girl in this regard. My view is GG's are just as f'g bad as LBs for relationships. And we are just as bad as they are.

Yes - well said. I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I think we're making too much of this "because she's a ladyboy" excuse. The culture differences between Thais and Westerners cause many more problems and misunderstandings than the ladyboy thing.

As an extension to that thought, though...

It's a generalization but I think ladyboys have a stronger yearning for true love and are less pragmatic about the consequences when things go wrong, than GGs are.

The very feminine trait of believing in fairytales is strong throughout the many ladyboys I have been lucky (or not) to talk to. I believe this is also true to a certain extent amongst the bargirls and LBs who 'work.'

In my (albeit limited) experience, ladyboys fantasize about true love affairs with farangs from a VERY young age. Dating Thais is never an option. On the other hand, GGs often discover the financial prudence of securing a Farang, or drift into relationships with them after sour experiences with Thai guys.

(Generalizations, chaps and there are numerous exceptions to these statements! Also; I don't include working gals in these comments.)

[Guest]

[QUOTE= (stogie bear @ Sep. 22 2005,02:01)]

In my (albeit limited) experience, ladyboys fantasize about true love affairs with farangs from a VERY young age. Dating Thais is never an option.

I guess reading this I'm now unsure that ladyboys would have Thai boyfriends? I thought there were plenty of Thai men who appreciated the nuances of a pretty ladyboy. Or are you saying that the Thais like to bonk 'em but would never get into any kind of ongoing real relationship?

[gunslinger]

Dont kid yourself mate, they do have Thai BFs, as well as farang, heck they can do it , so why not?
Take a walk away from NEP or Patpong and try going to some part of Bangkok where tourists dont normally go, the first time I did this it was a real eye opener. I was sat at this food stall with an LB, (her parents ran it) , in the early hours of the morning, it just so happened that his street is where quite a few girls from the bars live , a few from this site too.
They were all over the Thai guys like cheap suits, "Handsome man , handsome man, i suck you fuck me etc" I was bizarre to see , esp when you realise this aint for money, in fact they normally end up giving THEM money.
All these people who go on about "They are only interested in money" are missing the point I think.
The fact is most of the guys who go in the bars in NEP aren't exactly model material, so the money is the only thing they have left to offer.
Just my thoughts on it anyway

[Guest]

Yes, this is true.

I have a close, smart LB griend called Gatoon, a non-worker. She brought over a friend, and we fucked with zero introductions, and the friend was a non-worker and didn't want money. I asked Gatoon about this and she said, "Yes, sure, girl big problem for sex, many dates. Ladyboy, no problem, why not?".

And for Thai boyfriends, my experience is that they are almost universally assholes to the LB girlfriends. The (generalization) is that they use the LBs to get money and pay for their affairs, drinking, motorcycle, rent, just as in Private Dancer. I can tell you for sure, several girls on this site had Thai BFs and fed them money, and if the LB didn't get enough money, she got beaten or chastised. The reason they keep doing it is that they desire a relationship, good or bad.

[Guest]

Based on my admittedly limited experience in Thailand I would have to say that most of this is true

Most LBs that I know have at least one or more 'sissyboy' gay male friends with whom they hang out socially but do not date consistently

While a relationship with a straight Thai guy might be possible - before they get married, they do not seem reluctant to sow their sexual wild oats with a LB (or even date one for a while) - a healthy or long-term relationship seems to be rare

I spent a difficult evening in Chiang Mai last year trying to console a LB friend whose Thai boyfriend had the day before abruptly broken off their dating relationship of two years

Reason - his parents thought it was time for him to "settle down" in a "real" relationship with a GG

From what I learned that evening, the Thai notion of tolerance apparently does not extend to bringing a ladyboy home to meet the parents - let alone sanctioning a 'marriage' to one in a temple ceremony

This would seem to be the reason why one encounters very few LBs who are in a LT relationship with a Thai guy - and, one would assume, their oft-stated preference for finding a farang boyfriend who is unencumbered by social and family expectations

[Guest]

I do not think that "Tourist Attraction" is so very far off the mark.
The place and time, the medical/social commitment it took to get to this place; this is not a LB in Took San village, Cambodia. She is a visual and tactile "for hire" product of her own free will. This life sans Music, Lights, Money, etc. could be lived in the aforementioned Took San village, but is lived in LOS with a purpose. It's not something in the Pattaya water supply that produces 500 LB's and 1000
GG's. Commerce drives this show and it capitalizes on well funded Male sex drive. Tourists - yes I/we are. Attracted - yes I/we are. Ante up Lads!

[Guest]

Let me add one comment on the "free will" part.

My good friend May whom I mention a lot, did photos with Stogie. If you know May or see her in the bar, you kind of wonder what is she doing here? She doesn't seem to fit. I've now been with her about 4 months or so, almost steadily.

She said she hated doing photos, but she had 200 Baht in her pocket, and her room-mates were all broke. She had to eat and pay the rent or be on the street. It's hard to know what we would do in that situation. I've never been in a situation where I only had $5 in my pocket and no bank account and parents poorer than me. But I know I'd pretty much do anything to sleep off the street and eat.

So, yes, they are all doing it of their "free will", however, the alternative for many is not so great.

I know your comment wasn't negative Matt, but I just wanted to make a point that sure these girls get made up, have surgery, go to Pattaya, but it's called basic survival, not sure how much free will is involved there.

You cannot believe the pressure in Cascades now to look great, because there are so many girls. Great = surgery, clothes, telephones. Without looking great, they are back to 200 baht in their pocket. It's a financial pressure as well as social pressure, because the other girls literally bark at those not beautiful or having trouble getting customers.

[PigDogg]

the other girls literally bark at those not beautiful or having trouble getting customers.

A real pecking order fueled with attitude, hormones and maybe yabba.

Too much drama for me. I'll take a a laid back jai dee sweetie that works girl bars.

[stogie bear]

You cannot believe the pressure in Cascades now to look great, because there are so many girls. Great = surgery, clothes, telephones. Without looking great, they are back to 200 baht in their pocket.

Doesn't make sense. May does look great, yet she's still as poor as a church mouse!

The reasons are mainly that her friends are just like her and they feed off (and survive on) each others irresponsibilty and also she simply can't handle money!

She can change (or abandon) her circle of friends and pull her socks up or continue 'as is' till her looks actually force her to make some hard decisions!

I suspect that she values her friends and the companionship they provide more than money.

[Guest]

May only has 2 friends in Cascades, she says the rest are really harsh cats. I think the social environment in these bars is a lot tougher than we think. That's why some of the nice girls, maybe like Kif, can't stay in those places long.

To anyone who thinks they have it all figured out, you learn something new everyday, at least I do.

What I'm sure about is that we under-estimate the hardshness of a LB's life from all angles, money, social respect, school, relationships, jobs. Their "toughness" sometimes, I think, comes from all this. The sweet ones, like May, Kif, Kui, Phupae of Obsessions, are very strong people I think in reality.

[stogie bear]

The sweet ones, like May, Kif, Kui, Phupae of Obsessions, are very strong people I think in reality.

..or weak, or picky about the battles they choose to fight!

Interesting comments.

[PigDogg]

May only has 2 friends in Cascades, she says the rest are really harsh cats. I think the social environment in these bars is a lot tougher than we think. That's why some of the nice girls, maybe like Kif, can't stay in those places long.

My take:

To survive on the street you need to be tough and need  firends/allies. In some places you may even need a pimp.

It's not just being attractive or charming enough to get customers.  You also need the agressiveness to "steal" customers and not get your customers "stolen".

The Nana Bars are the major leagues and a rookie needs friends to watch her back.

Some girls are not just cut out for this.   Some aren't tough enough.  Some, like a good friend of mine who was actually in the Thai army, just don't have the temperment for this.  She chose a girl bar but has now moved home.

In many ways the Nana scene is like women's prison movies.

The girls need to find the right environment.  Ferns don't grow in the desert and you find cactus in the rainforest.  They have to find a situation that works for them.

Maybe the super sweet ones, willing to forego the gold and designer bags, might be best at landing a long term farang?