Crazy Transsexuals

[Guest]

doug speaks douche! nuff said!

[thaibound]

(doug @ Jan. 21 2008,00:02) You are quite right to say that transgenders have perfectly normal female brains,

i saw a recent study clearly distinguishing the female brain from the male brain by scanning the areas of the brain utilized to store memories. apparently the male brain and the female brain store memories in quite distinctive manners. i find myself quite curious as to what would be the result if a transgender were to be examined in this manner.
could such a 'test' be pertinent to any decision being made with regard to SRS?

[Guest]

(shrimpsoup @ Jan. 21 2008,14:37)

(stogie bear @ Jan. 20 2008,12:07) How do you characterize 'craziness?'

Bom. Definitely crazy.

If they chase you down Soi 6 at 4am they're either crazy....or trying to roll you. If they throw stuff at you.... like pieces of concrete....they're crazy.

If they scream at you in JSB, for no apparent reason...they're crazy.

Whacking you with their handbag in jsb= crazy.

Boxing you for buttaflying=Crazy.

Sms saying "if you come to Triple x, you die"=Crazy.

Throwing bottle across 2nd road from Triple x on falang= Crazy.

Boxing old drunk british falang outside jsb= crazy.

Claiming having video of you fcuking her and promise to expose you=crazy.

This is just last week in the land of smiles and the interesting world of ladyboys.

[Guest]

(thaibound @ Jan. 21 2008,15:26) could such a 'test' be pertinent to any decision being made with regard to SRS?

 Is that a retorical question with a bit of sarcasm?

dieter, ozziecopter takes years and alot of baht to become. I´m still a newbie, buttafly or even hellacopter maybe, but ozziecopter, not even close.
See you wednesday.

[harley quinn]

Interesting thread this: where I live is on the staggering route home from a night club and some of the antics of the "sane gg community" at 2 am makes you wonder whether the whole human race is in fact several cards short of a deck.

If transexuals are crazy then what does that make their admirers?

I find myself fimly alongside Naang Faa, Statuesque and Swoon TV (pauses for brief erotic fantasy) - drug users are crazy and unpredictable regardless of gender, transexuals are transexuals like them for who they are or leave them alone.

BTW going slightly   talking of relationships - I note that a lot of P4P girls in the UK offer a girlfriend experience - does this mean they tell you to stop going out with your mates and show commitment?

Happy Monday

[Guest]

(harley quinn @ Jan. 21 2008,16:28) If transexuals are crazy then what does that make their admirers?


drug users are crazy and unpredictable regardless of gender,

BTW going slightly   talking of relationships - I note that a lot of P4P girls in the UK offer a girlfriend experience - does this mean they tell you to stop going out with your mates and show commitment?

Happy Monday

Probably, yes.

Not as bad as lb´s.

Yeah, you got that down correct, and they will be faithful to you forever.

[statuesque]

(doug @ Jan. 21 2008,14:02) You say, "except for the testes" as if they are "no big deal" to just toss away, but that'd be like telling a woman, "Hey, we're going to give you a new set of tits, except for the nipples".  They are NOT irrelevant, and cutting them off and tossing them away is NOT a thing that should be done casually.

Oh no, not at all doug! Haha! I didnt mean theyre useless. It was a referrence to quantity, NOT quality. Like there are ONLY THREE APPLES in a basket, but that doesnt mean theyre of a less variety or some sort  

I think that strong psychological instability is as common for any woman, trans or not, whos undergoing radical changes in her life or is placed in a unique environment. Female soldiers, pregnant mothers with post-partum depression, or even a young girl with an overbearing mother. It can be profession, family history, culture even. While it is true that theres considerable number of TGs who "behave unconventionally", that is merely a by-product of how the stereotypical world behaves and consequently expects us to behave in return.

As with experts of denial, hahaha!  
TGs do NOT deny that they have male bodies. Oh we are very well-aware of it actually *giggles* But we do get sad, bitter, depressed, annoyed, what-have-you. But thats just normal, right? Then we move on and proceed with changing that male body (which we do not deny we have) into something thats finally congruent. So I think that maybe denial is not a good term, but "incongruent" does seem more fitting.  


S

[Naang Faa]

(statuesque @ Jan. 21 2008,19:44) I think that strong psychological instability is as common for any woman, trans or not, whos undergoing radical changes in her life or is placed in a unique environment. Female soldiers, pregnant mothers with post-partum depression, or even a young girl with an overbearing mother. It can be profession, family history, culture even. While it is true that theres considerable number of TGs who "behave unconventionally", that is merely a by-product of how the stereotypical world behaves and consequently expects us to behave in return.

As with experts of denial, hahaha!
TGs do NOT deny that they have male bodies. Oh we are very well-aware of it actually *giggles* But we do get sad, bitter, depressed, annoyed, what-have-you. But thats just normal, right? Then we move on and proceed with changing that male body (which we do not deny we have) into something thats finally congruent. So I think that maybe denial is not a good term, but "incongruent" does seem more fitting.


S

Miss Statuesque,
Happy as i am with my lot in life..
I would love to have your common sense if only for
a day
Oh,and the cheekbones too-for maybe a little longer

xx

[statuesque]

 Aawww, thanks Naang Faa  
Oh, so does that mean I have to amputate my brain and cheeks now so you can have them?    


S

[Naang Faa]

Yeah,Doug will have a fit

x

[doug]

(statuesque @ Jan. 21 2008,19:44) As with experts of denial, hahaha!  
TGs do NOT deny that they have male bodies. Oh we are very well-aware of it actually *giggles* But we do get sad, bitter, depressed, annoyed, what-have-you. But thats just normal, right? Then we move on and proceed with changing that male body (which we do not deny we have) into something thats finally congruent. So I think that maybe denial is not a good term, but "incongruent" does seem more fitting.  

Yes, but unfortunately for anyone who is attracted to ladyboys, those expressions of normal sadness, bitterness, depression and annoyance often involve drugs, alcohol, self-destructive behavior and public lunacy.

As Rick is happily pointing out, it's not too much fun to be on the recieving end of that "normal" reaction to being trapped in the wrong body.

Rick's posts point out why I refuse to get emotionally involved with ladyboys (beyond friendship, and even then often at arm's-length), ESPECIALLY bargirl ladyboys.

One minute you've got a great friend you've known for years, and the next minute she goes on a different hormone dose and you've got a raving lunatic on your hands.

Personally, I like my close friends to be a bit more predictable than that. After all, nobody can hurt you worse than a friend can. And putting that much trust into someone who's "sad, bitter, depressed, and annoy" (as you put it, or "crazy" as Fred puts it), just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[rxpharm]

Doug, you're talking apples and oranges here. While it may be possible to compare similar groups, I feel that drawing conclusions to a different group is not the wisest thing to do.

You quote statistics that suicide rates are high among western postop ts, and you generalize this to Thai/Asian ts. While I know there are some Thai postop ts who commit suicide (and I'm sorry one of your friends was involved), there are no studies to show that they commit suicide at a rate higher than the normal Thai population.

You also generalize erratic behavior that a number of board members have reported about p4p lbs, and your own personal experience to the general population of lbs.

So, really it is your opinion based on limited personal experience and information you are making conclusions about.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but don't try to promote it as fact.

[doug]

(rxpharm @ Jan. 22 2008,02:53) Doug, you're talking apples and oranges here.  While it may be possible to compare similar groups, I feel that drawing conclusions to a different group is not the wisest thing to do.

You quote statistics that suicide rates are high among western postop ts, and you generalize this to Thai/Asian ts.  While I know there are some Thai postop ts who commit suicide (and I'm sorry one of your friends was involved), there are no studies to show that they commit suicide at a rate higher than the normal Thai population.

You also generalize erratic behavior that a number of board members have reported about p4p lbs, and your own personal experience to the general population of lbs.

So, really it is your opinion based on limited personal experience and information you are making conclusions about.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but don't try to promote it as fact.

http://www.dmh.go.th/sty_libnews/news/view.asp?id=1690
At present the overall suicide rate in Thailand is 7.13 per 100,000 population. (over DOUBLE the rate in the West, so why do you think the overall rate would be higher for Thais in general, but lower for ladyboys in particular? That doesn't make sense).


http://www.dmh.go.th/sty_libnews/news/view.asp?id=1690
There were 3,323 suicides in Thailand in 1990, a rate of 5.9/100,000. (notice that it's increased since 1990). More men committed suicide than women and the highest rate occurred among 15-25 year-olds of both sexes (ladyboys would almost certainly count as "males" in a Thai governement study).

Since suicide rates for transgenders are A LOT higher than the general population in the West, it stands to reason that Thai's transgender population would mirror that unfortunate trend (life isn't that much easier here). Which means you could be look at suicide rates as high as 20% to 40% for young Thai transgenders (which would explain why so many more "males" commit suicide in Thailand than females).

In fact:

http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/Kathoey
The lives of kathoey are not as easy as many Westerners might believe. Families (and especially fathers) are typically disappointed if a son becomes a kathoey. Legal recognition of kathoey also is non-existent in Thailand: even after sex reassignment surgery, they are not allowed to change their legal gender. (Compare Legal aspects of transsexualism). Kathoeys are also estimated to have been one of the groups that suffered most from the Indian Ocean earthquake, having far less familial support and recourse to government help than most other groups in society. Further, kathoey often belong to lower social classes, and their suicide rate is significantly higher than that of the general population.

A report in the UK Guardian Newspaper states:

There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend.
The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.

...the Report itself states:

Paradoxically, a growing number of post-operative transsexuals are scathing about their medical care. International research suggests that 3-18% of them come to regret switching gender.

Look, I know that SRS might have be a good choice for many girls, but it doesn't mean it's the right choice for EVERYBODY. The facts show that pretty clearly.

So far, I've backed up everything I've said, and all you guys can do is resort to calling me a douche.

Fine, it wasn't my intention to start a flame war. All I wanted to point out is that "mental instability", depression, and suicide are BIG problems in the transgendered community worldwide and that SRS is NOT a cure-all for those problems (in fact, I believe in MANY cases, it's a symptom, not a solution).

If you guys have got something contrary to say about that, then put up or shut up.



rxpharm, you said that I was talking "apples and oranges". You said I was generalizing and that I was basing my opinions on "limited personal experience", not "fact".

Well, my opinions happen to be actually based on FACTS. So what have you got to say about that? If you think that Thailand can have a general suicide rate that's DOUBLE the Western rate, but that Thai's transgendered community is somehow going to magically be the reverse of that trend. Then prove it. Otherwise, you're the one "promoting opinion as fact", not me.

Naang Faa, statuesque, with all due respect, both of you are generalizing personal experience into universal facts. But all the evidence that I've managed to find (during a brief Google search) shows that your personal experiences are NOT the norm.

It's unfortunate, and I wish it weren't true. I'm glad that your SRS has worked out for you. That's great news. But you can't use that personal experience as "proof" that I'm wrong. Especially when there is so much clinical data out there that states the opposite.

The original poster asked if ladyboys were "crazy". I'm sure he didn't intend to touch off such a serious discussion, but here we are. Now, if you all want to have an actual discussion on this very important issue, then stop calling me a douche and "post-op hater", and start BACKING UP your OPINIONS with some real fact.

[Naang Faa]

[QUOTE]Naang Faa, statuesque, with all due respect, both of you are generalizing personal experience into universal facts. But all the evidence that I've managed to find (during a brief Google search) shows that your personal experiences are "NOT the norm.[QUOTE]

Doug,with all due respect,i live with many post-op TS not a single girl regrets
her SRS..some maybe the choice of surgeon but never the "AMPUTATION" as
you put it...
So i'm i lucky? have all the lucky girls just happen to know each other?
All in all i have met 100s of post ops in Thailand,never once have i come across
a girl who had "The INEVITABLE sense of regret or loss"!
Your friend who killed herself (god bless) was it the INEVITABLE sense of loss
of a guy she loved and wanted to marry?..I mean whats the chances of that?
Suicide is rife because of the hopeless situation they face with idiots and
a realization that it's not going to be a convincing transition opening them up
to social isolation,rejection......
I was diagnosed at an early age but i still couldn't talk to a psychologist because
i never wanted anyone calling me "different"...

x

[doug]

[quote=Naang Faa,Jan. 22 2008,04:40] [quote] Naang Faa, statuesque, with all due respect, both of you are generalizing personal experience into universal facts.  But all the evidence that I've managed to find (during a brief Google search) shows that your personal experiences are "NOT the norm.

Doug,with all due respect,i live with many post-op TS not a single girl regrets
her SRS..some maybe the choice of surgeon but never the "AMPUTATION" as
you put it...
           So i'm i lucky? have all the lucky girls just happen to know each other?
All in all i have met 100s of post ops in Thailand,never once have i come across
a girl  who had "The  INEVITABLE sense of regret or loss"!
Your friend who killed herself (god bless) was it the INEVITABLE sense of loss
of a guy she loved and wanted to marry?..I mean whats the chances of that?
Suicide is rife because of the hopeless situation they face with idiots and
a realization that it's not going to be a convincing transition opening them up
to social isolation,rejection......
I was diagnosed at an early age but i still couldn't talk to a psychologist because
i never wanted anyone calling me "different"...
                                                                             
                                                                               x

Oh, come on now, Naang Faa, you know that personal stories don't cut it as "scientifically rigorous" proofs of anything.

Did you conduct a proper interview with all these "100's" of girls you've known?  Get them to fill out a properly worded and unbiased questionaire and then run the results through statistical analysis software?

Seriously.

Did the topic even come up with every girl you met?  And if so, how can you be certain you were getting honest answers?  Are you saying ladyboys never lie to other ladyboys?

Come on, it's just human nature, it happens all the time in all sorts of situations.  Someone makes a bone-headed mistake, and then they tell everyone how "happy" they are about it, because they'd rather keep deluding themselves that it was a great idea than suffer the embarassing admission that they did something they really, really regretted doing.

Fuck, isn't that EXACTLY what Bush has been doing for the last 6 years every time he talks about Iraq?

So I can't for a minute image that you conducted anything close to a valid survey of those "100's" of girls you've known.  Nor can I believe that all those girls were 100% satisfied with their decision, especially when there are REAL surveys out there that say otherwise.  I pulled out factual surveys that contradict you, and you pulled out an exaggerated personal opinion.  I'm sorry, but that does not cut the mustard.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those girls you talked to who were the biggest advocates of SRS, are also the ones with the biggest private regrets.  It is quite common for people who make big mistakes to encourage other people to make the same mistake (so they will feel less foolish about it).