Crazy Transsexuals

[Fred_Nguyen]

(Naang Faa @ Jan. 21 2008,05:16) I Take it you don't like Post-ops then Doug?
                                                                 
                                                                    x

About 50% of his entire 1,903 word rant was devoted to his own prejudice against SRS.

Some of most well-adapted women I've known who are transsexual are the ones who had SRS (which is reconstructive surgery, not simple-minded "amputation") earlier in life.

[Naang Faa]

(doug @ Jan. 21 2008,04:51) OK, no offense to Naang Faa, statuesque, and the other ladies we have posting here, but I'm of the opinion that...

Blah de blah de blah...

...is not my idea of fun.

Trans-envy?

x

[doug]

(Naang Faa @ Jan. 21 2008,05:16) I Take it you don't like Post-ops then Doug?
                                                                 
                                                                    x

Didn't say that.

What I said is that SRS is amputation. Period.

Much like stapling a stomach, it is a life-altering surgery, that requires a lifestyle change AND quite often a lifetime of medication.

There are long-term emotional, physical, mental, social, personal, and financial issues to consider.

It is NOT something a person should do on a whim, and I strongly oppose it for anyone who is doing it to "make someone happy", including themselves.

Happiness and a sense of "normalcy" are INTERNAL conditions and no amount of external tinkering is going to "fix" the stuff going on inside.

If someone goes into an SRS thinking "If I do this, I'll be happier with myself", then their doctor is an unethical, money-grubbing prick who isn't doing his job.

And that has nothing to do with me "liking" or "disliking" post-ops. It has to do with good, ethical medical practice. Something that is sorely lacking in Thailand's chop shop pussy-mills.

I don't have an objection to post-ops, but I do have an objection to people making a PROFIT off someone else's mental instability.

If a girl is ready for it emotionally (meaning she's had counselling and is prepared for the INEVITABLE regrets and "sense of loss"); if she's ready for it personally (meaning she's talked it over with her loved ones and family and she's got their support); if she's ready for it medically (meaning she's prepared for the risks of nerve damage and/or infection and she's got no existing medical problems that might complicate the procedure); if she's ready for it socially (meaning that she's spent some time living full-time as a woman and she's certain that it's something she really wants for herself); and if she's ready for it financially (meaning she's able to pay for the LONG-TERM costs of the surgery, including hormone therapy. And this is important because girls who can't afford the pills are often forced into prostitution).

If she's managed to get all that sorted out, and she still wants to go through an amputation (although maybe by that time, she'll have realized that she doesn't NEED to modify her body to be happy with HERSELF), well, then sure, by all means. It's her body.

So you're mistaken if you think I "don't like" post-ops. I realize that some guys on here when they see a post-op, because they're grossed out by it, or they have a fetish for cocks, or they feel sympathy pain for the poor chopped "little guy".

Not me. On the contrary, SRS doesn't gross me out at all. Sure, I'm not attracted to post-ops, but that's a matter of TASTE, not personal ethics.

My objection to SRS comes from a REAL concern for ladyboys (especially my friends). There's a huge amount of peer pressure from other girls to get the chop, but not many girls actually take the time to approach the surgery from an emotionally stable and HEALTHY place.

I've got a question for you. If a teenage girl "cuts" herself most people would agree that she's crying for help and she's showing signs of mental instability. How then is it that when a ladyboy goes through with the amputation of a body part (for many of the same reasons), it's suddenly a good thing?

[Naang Faa]

It is NOT something a person should do on a whim, and I strongly oppose it for anyone who is doing it to "make someone happy", including themselves.

Happiness and a sense of "normalcy" are INTERNAL conditions and no amount of external tinkering is going to "fix" the stuff going on inside.

But don't you think a unified body (no matter how it's achieved) and mind can help a person?..

I lived as a guy..i never did this at school age,i fought against it for years,unhappily,and now
i'm fine i am happy...truly happy.

x

[Fred_Nguyen]

(doug @ Jan. 21 2008,05:55) I don't have an objection to post-ops, but I do have an objection to people making a PROFIT off someone else's mental instability.

"Mental instability" is a loaded term. Transsexuals who desire SRS might be quite stable in their perception of a feminine identity.

Do you also have a beef with a doctor or hospital that treats appendicitis, or splints a broken bone, if their revenues exceed their costs (earns a profit)? Do you have a problem with a farmer who makes a profit selling you food, since eating is more essential to life than elective surgery...

I doubt you're that much of a socialist. Essentially then, if it is a procedure you personally do not support, such as SRS, then no one should be allowed to earn a profit by providing that service, regardless of the viewpoints and feelings of others who might find value in it.

SRS is not simply amputation, as "amputation. period" would not engender the creation of a vagina or vulva. Your deliberate word choice ("amputation") is not rooted in reality, but instead is pure rhetoric intended to provoke an emotion.

As an anti-SRS partisan whose sex interest is in penises, your self-interested rhetoric is not going to change anything about SRS, especially here, where you are mostly playing to the choir. But your rant revealed some frustration and anger that might be well-served if you were to see a shrink yourself.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(doug @ Jan. 21 2008,05:55) I've got a question for you.  If a teenage girl "cuts" herself most people would agree that she's crying for help and she's showing signs of mental instability. How then is it that when a ladyboy goes through with the  amputation of a body part (for many of the same reasons), it's suddenly a good thing?

You are deliberately confusing two distinct conditions for the sake of proving your own point. Self-cutting is nearly pathognomonic for a particular personality disorder that is not the same as transsexualism. To confuse the two betrays a deliberate desire to be deceptive, or simple ignorance.

[Naang Faa]

I've got a question for you. If a teenage girl "cuts" herself most people would agree that she's crying for help and she's showing signs of mental instability. How then is it that when a ladyboy goes through with the amputation of a body part (for many of the same reasons), it's suddenly a good thing?

Of course she needs help,self harm triggered by a traumatic event (The only girl i know,who
did this was a rape victim at 14)...
True Transsexuality is inside,at the very core of the person..It's every breath we take..
I lived through it,you have no idea how hard it was..
I am not perfect by any means,can't hold a candle to these girls but i'm contented
and that is something i never had before..And Amputation? prefer to call it recreation,..

x

[Guest]

Tonight i got boxed by a drunk Dear from Stringfellows. This was in another bar at 4 am.
Reason? "You buttafly!"
Butterflies beware, don´t butterfly in Pattaya, or Dear will box you.

[Dieter]

Lol.....You are to handsome and not a Ozzicopter........

See you...

Dieter

[Naang Faa]

If a girl is ready for it emotionally (meaning she's had counselling and is prepared for the INEVITABLE regrets and "sense of loss")

For gods sake Doug! Where did you get that one from?

x

[stogie bear]

(Dieter @ Jan. 21 2008,05:40) Ozzicopter........

Classic!

[doug]

(Naang Faa @ Jan. 21 2008,06:44)

If a girl is ready for it emotionally (meaning she's had counselling and is prepared for the INEVITABLE regrets and "sense of loss")

For gods sake Doug! Where did you get that one from?
                                                                                       
                                                                                            x

Oh, I don't know.  I probably got it from my friend right before she killed herself.  I seem to recall her being quite upset about mutilating herself for the sake of some guy.

Paint your rose-colored picture, if you like--and for all I know, you may be one of the lucky few who are TRULY happy and content--but you and I both know that a large majority of transgendered girls wrestle with serious emotional and mental problems.

Here a quote from Laura's Playground:

The National suicide rate is 3 per 100,000 People. The Transgender Transsexual suicide rate is 31% of our group. Over 50% of Transsexuals will have had at least one suicide attempt by their 20th birthday. Even more self harm themselves daily either by cutting or self mutilation.

Hmmm, I seem to remember Fred saying that self-cutting and transsexualism have nothing in common and that I was being deliberately deceptive by "confusing" the two.  And yet here's a transsexual website putting the two things together as well.

Hmm, deliberately deceptive?  Or speaking an unpleasant truth that YOU don't want to hear?....

Here's another quote from some Seattle public health website:

Both suicide attempts and completed suicides are common in transgendered persons. Studies generally report a pre-transition suicide attempt rate of 20% or more, with MTFs relatively more likely to attempt suicide than FTMs. There is some evidence that transsexual people are less likely to attempt suicide once they have completed the transition to the other sex.

Another form of self-harm in transgendered persons is genital mutilation. This is most common among transsexuals, although cross-dressers have done this as well.

Again, self-cutting shows up when someone is discussing the mental health of ladyboys.  Is that enough for you to admit you were wrong Fred?  I personally know several girls who do this, and evidence of it is easy to pick out at any go-go bar in Thailand.  Do you really think all those cigarette burns and "motorbike scars" are accidental?

Naang Faa, I'd like to point out to you that in my "anti-SRS" post (as you call it), I said that I wasn't against SRS, just against the RUSH to do it without proper counselling about ALL aspects of the surgery.  I also said, that like stomach-stapling, it should be viewed as a "last resort" surgery (not a GOAL) undertaken when necessary to save the patient's life.

This paragraph I quoted states that there is evidence that suicide rates drop (BUT DON'T DISAPPEAR) after the surgery is completed.  Clearly this proves my point  that SRS should be viewed as a life-saving treatment not as a SHORT-CUT (literally) to happiness.

If you are reading something "anti-post-op" into my posts, you are totally mistaken.

SRS done for the WRONG reasons is self-mutilation at it's most extreme (amputation, period).  However, as I said in my post, there are times (like stomach-stapling or an appendectomy) when a body part needs to be removed for the overall health of the patient.  When SRS is done for THIS reason, it's a medical treatment undertaken as part of an effort to save a life.

Perhaps you think I'm just splitting hairs, but I don't think so.  Then end result is the same, of course, but the motivations driving that outcome are completely different.  One approach is healthy, the other is self-destructive.

But with suicide rates that are ridiculously high, you cannot possibly sit there and say that I'm completely off-base when I say that most ladyboys suffer from varying degrees of mental instability (from self-destructive risk-taking and complusive behavior to full-blown depression and self-hate).

Then again, you're the expert in denial, not me .

[statuesque]

Uhm, doug, actually, the term Gender Identity Disorder (GID) or Gender Dysphoria (GD) is not a problem with the brain but rather with the body. When one is diagnosed with such, doctors prescribe drugs to correct the body, and NOT the mind. Our brains are physiologically female. Theres nothing wrong with it. Its just that it didnt have the corresponding hormone to fork its development during pregnancy into a male brain (just like the way our body did). So, my point is that our female brains by themselves are not factories of insanity, delusion or, as you would say, experts in denial.  

Further, the term "disorder" used in GID or GD isnt synonymous to "illness" as schizophrenia is, to name one. It simply means an unconventional state of mind. Nothing has been recorded similar to GID/GD in medical history thats why they used the term "disorder" because "they are not in the order of things", but not necessarily sick or with ailment. Like in a roomful of men wearing black, the only guy wearing white is a "disorder". Would you immediately say that he has illness or an ailment already?  

Also, statistics show that there are more male criminals in the world! Male criminals being individuals with MALE BRAINS. I dont want to branch this out to the classic Mars-versus-Venus type of discussion, but truth be told, female brains are wired to be less-violent than the male counterparts. If you have noticed, there hasnt been an issue yet of creating a separate cell for TG prisoners because theres not one too crazy to become a criminal!    (well, maybe theres one or two but Ive definitely not heard of them!)

Lastly, SRS as amputation doesnt sound exactly right to me. Amputation is having to cut away a part of your body forever, like an arm or a leg. SRS actually RECONSTRUCTS the penis into a vagina. Its not a simple "snip off", no! Haha! They still use all the parts of the original penis (except the testes only) and recreate it in a very, VERY different position. Its still all there! After all, the vagina IS an undeveloped penis *wink-wink*  


S

[doug]

(statuesque @ Jan. 21 2008,13:10) Uhm, doug, actually, the term Gender Identity Disorder (GID) or Gender Dysphoria (GD) is not a problem with the brain but rather with the body.....So, my point is that our female brains by themselves are not factories of insanity, delusion or, as you would say, experts in denial.  

Further, the term "disorder" used in GID or GD isnt synonymous to "illness" as schizophrenia is, to name one. It simply means an unconventional state of mind. Nothing has been recorded similar to GID/GD in medical history thats why they used the term "disorder" because "they are not in the order of things", but not necessarily sick or with ailment. Like in a roomful of men wearing black, the only guy wearing white is a "disorder". Would you immediately say that he has illness or an ailment already?  

statuesque, thanks for not immediately flaming me.  I realize this is an intensely personal issue for you girls, and I'm speaking about it as an "outsider".  So perhaps you girls feel that I'm unfairly painting you and your life decisions with a rather broad brush.

But I'd like to point out that the original post asked about "Crazy Transsexuals".  You'll notice that I haven't used the term "crazy" in any of my posts.  That's because you and I both AGREE that the word "disorder" doesn't mean "sick" or "crazy".

In fact, I tried to be quite clear about that when I said: "It's just a clinical definition, not a moral judgment".

Now, of course, I have often referred to ladyboys as "vortexes of chaos" in my past posts, but that's with an affectionate tongue-in-cheek.  I love that trait in the ladyboys I see, but I'm also careful to hold it at arm's length for the sake of my own sanity.  This forum is littered with the tales of guys who got too involved and ended up getting swept up in all the chaos.

When I say that ladyboys are "experts in denial", I say that with a great deal of sympathy and understanding.  It is a HARD life for many girls, and their options are either to live in denial or perish.   And the suicide rates back me up on that statement.

You are quite right to say that transgenders have perfectly normal female brains, but they also have perfectly normal MALE bodies.  Just like you did with the word "disorder", I would ask that you remove the negative connotation from the word "denial" and use it in a strictly clinical manner.  The body says it is male, the brain denies this fact.  That is denial.  And it is a daily war for many girls.  A war which many girls lose.

Lastly, SRS as amputation doesnt sound exactly right to me. Amputation is having to cut away a part of your body forever, like an arm or a leg. SRS actually RECONSTRUCTS the penis into a vagina. Its not a simple "snip off", no! Haha! They still use all the parts of the original penis (except the testes only) and recreate it in a very, VERY different position. Its still all there! After all, the vagina IS an undeveloped penis *wink-wink*  

You say, "except for the testes" as if they are "no big deal" to just toss away, but that'd be like telling a woman, "Hey, we're going to give you a new set of tits, except for the nipples".  They are NOT irrelevant, and cutting them off and tossing them away is NOT a thing that should be done casually.

That's all I'm saying.  I'm NOT saying it should never be done, only that it shouldn't be done casually.

Hell, there are people out there on these forums who view circumcision as a form of mutilation.  SRS is a bit more extreme than circumcision, and it is certainly not a simple nip-and-tuck "cosmetic" surgery.

Those testes you toss away so lightly aren't just for making nice cum shots in porn videos.  They happen to be a vital part of the endocrine system, and removing them means that transgendered girls must remain on medication for LIFE.  Expensive medication = higher risk of financial problems = prostitution in many cases. Not only that, but hormone replacement therapy includes it's own set of risks, including increased mortality rates as you get older.

Of course, like I said, many girls don't give a shit about "getting older", and so they rush into the chop shops without considering the LIFE-LONG impact of what they are doing to their bodies.

Many elderly people struggle to pay for medications as it is.  Can you imagine adding the additional burden of paying for hormones on top of that?  How's an 80 year old former bar girl going to pay for that?  Toothless blowjobs at Lolitas?

But people really don't talk about elderly ladyboys do they?  That's because not many girls make it into their twilight years.

Here's some more info:

In 1979, when Paul McHugh became chairperson of the psychiatric department at Johns Hopkins, he ordered the department to conduct follow-up evaluations on as many of their former transsexual patients as possible. When the follow-ups were performed, they foundthat most of the patients claimed to be happy as members of their target sex, but that their overall level of psychological functioning hadnot improved.

Many medical textbooks state that "significant psychological problems often persist after surgical and hormonal sex reassignment."

Pretty much what I've been saying all along.  Changing the external to match the internal DOES NOT "fix" things.

A transgendered girl can "reconstruct" her genitals, shave her adam's apple (and vocal chords too!), inject silicone directly into her ass, get a boob job and a nose job, and grow her hair long, wear make-up, etc... Until she APPEARS to be a woman in every regard.  Her external image can match her internal image perfectly and she will STILL be a woman stuck in a man's body.  There's a bit more to being "male" than just a set of balls and a cock, you know.

What I'm saying, is that unless she learns how to be happy with herself AS IS, no amount of surgery is going to "fix" her.  

Self-LOVE should motivate any surgery, NOT self-HATE.

[shrimpsoup]

(stogie bear @ Jan. 20 2008,12:07) How do you characterize 'craziness?'

Bom. Definitely crazy.

If they chase you down Soi 6 at 4am they're either crazy....or trying to roll you. If they throw stuff at you.... like pieces of concrete....they're crazy.

If they scream at you in JSB, for no apparent reason...they're crazy.