The RED SHIRT Crisis in Bangkok!

[azza33]

Just read tourism is 6% of Thai GDP .... if correct... may surprise some people.... (on the low side)  

[Snick]

6-7% is the legit number ( i.e. tourism businesses that report income and pay taxes ).
Double that to include real income, bar income, income and remittances to girls,etc..
Also tourism is a very labor intensive industry, so its maybe 15% (guess) of the workforce.

[whore]

The main people to benefit from the tourism industry is the working class people themselves. So the support they are giving the red shirts is just retarded.

[pacman]

So when the bars, restaurants & hotels are empty, what are the people reliant on the tourism industry expected to do?

I hate to think of the girls waiting in their bar for the customers who never come arrive.

[rxpharm]

2 years ago when the airport closed bars and restaurants closed for a while and staff went back home. This time it will be much worse as business will take much longer to recover.

I can see many of the workers going back home - many to Isaan and having arguments with the Red Shirt supporter relatives who want more money from them.

[seamus]

(pacman @ May 15 2010,12:35) I have just watched the TV news & saw the latest scenes of the situation being presented to the world.

The reporter wore a helmet & flak jacket & the images of armed soldiers firing live ammunition will ensure there will be very few tourists visiting LOS anytime soon.

Trust those Thais to destroy their own tourist industry.

Well another Asian Country off the Pacci holiday list, or am I wrong ?

You once said to Me you wouldn't step foot in Indonesia again, well Pacci, Thailand again, or is LOS now off the list for now ?

& I am not making Light of this, or taking the piss, just in case it comes across like that !

I have to say If I had a flight booked for Monday, I'd be going ! Would I book one now, today for Monday........................In a word "NO" !

[guydesavoy]

(seamus @ May 15 2010,23:24) I have to say If I had a flight booked for Monday, I'd be going ! Would I book one now, today for Monday........................In a word "NO" !

If I had a vacation window now, and couldn't postpone it, I'd still come.

As long as the airport or roads there and from are not blocked...just logistics.

I of course bemoan the loss of life in any context. But I don't fear for the Thais in the long run. It's their show after all. And they usually land on their feet. (Whatever that means...).

[spare wheel]

few pics from ground zero in bkk

[spare wheel]

cpl more

[spare wheel]

on a lighter note, i miss this girl to bits

SW „¢

[robbo]

all very sad what is unfolding,the needless loss of life,for the most of them were probably decent normal people,very sad.
i feel for all Thais having got to know a few,and having some Thai girlfriends in the past,i can imagine how they are feeling,as im sure most guys here who have spent time in LOS feel the same as me.
there are no winners here.
i feel if only this was dealt with sooner no one would have died.
they should never have been allowed to barricade and set up division.
this mess could have been avoided.

[spare wheel]

[SamplerDoc]

I love that guy.............his videos are awesome
Thanks for the find SW.

About a month ago to the day, I started a thread about the issues in Thailand and warned that this was the begining of some serious civil unrest along with some great news articles and videos etc

For some reason that entire thread was deleted with no feedback or warnings while others remain.............wtf? Guess a mod with their own thread was jealous...........

Anyway, I really don't care about that other than important info was deleted for no reason at all which makes no sense.



Okay back to the important issues............................

The US Government has changed its info from an alert to a warning from their website below.........

This information is current as of today, Sun May 16 02:03:52 2010.

THAILAND
May 15, 2010

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens traveling to and residing in Thailand of ongoing political demonstrations and unrest in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. Due to escalating violence in central Bangkok, including gunfire near the U.S. Embassy, demonstrations in Chiang Mai, and other incidents throughout Thailand, U.S. citizens should defer all travel to Bangkok and defer all non-essential travel to the rest of Thailand. The Department of State has authorized the departure of all non-emergency U.S. government personnel and eligible family members from Bangkok. This replaces the Travel Alert dated April 28, 2010, and is in response to updated information on increased violence and security concerns. The Department of State recommends against travel to Bangkok and non-essential travel to Thailand at this time.

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (aka UDD or "red-shirts") continues to demonstrate in central Bangkok. The UDD may change or expand its demonstration locations at any time. Various other groups have engaged in pro-government or counter-demonstrations in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. There have been several clashes between security forces and the UDD and other demonstrators. These clashes may escalate with no warning. For areas currently affected by demonstrations, please refer to local media.

The Royal Thai Government through the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation has announced its plans to close off the demonstration area at the Ratchaprasong rally site in an attempt to disperse the protesters. Authorities are taking the following measures:

--limiting transportation services, including the BTS Skytrain, MRTA, canal routes, and possibly bus routes;
--setting up checkpoints at all access routes in order to control and limit access to the rally site for details on what routes may be affected, please refer to local media;
--cutting off telephone service to the rally site;
--possibly cutting off electricity and water to the rally site and surrounding areas.

The U.S. Embassy, including visa operations, was closed on Friday, May 14 and will be closed on Monday, May 17. If security issues persist, the U.S. Embassy may continue to close. American Citizen Services (ACS) will be available for emergencies only. To find out the current operating status of the U.S. Embassy, please go to the Embassy's website at http://bangkok.usembassy.gov. The U.S. Embassy recommends against coming to this area. If U.S. citizens currently have appointments with ACS, they may go online or call us once we have reopened at 02-205-4049 to reschedule.

U.S. citizens should avoid travel to and lodging in this area and the areas in and around all demonstrations. If U.S. citizens must travel to these areas, they should exercise special caution and remain vigilant with regard to their personal security. U.S. Embassy personnel who live in affected areas are being relocated to housing outside of the affected areas until the situation is resolved. The Department of State has authorized the departure of all non-emergency U.S. government personnel and eligible family members from Bangkok. The U.S. Embassy is restricting the travel of official visitors to Thailand.

The Royal Thai Government has declared a state of emergency in the following provinces:
-Chiang Mai
-Chiang Rai
-Lampang
-Nan
-Nakhon Sawan
-Samut Prakan
-Chon Buri
-Nonthaburi
-Pathum Thani
-Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya
-Khon Kaen
-Udon Thani
-Chaiyaphum
-Nakhon Ratchasima
-Si Sa Ket

This action expands the existing state of emergency in the Bangkok metropolitan area that the government declared on April 7, 2010.

A state of emergency gives the police and military increased powers to maintain public order. Specifically, security forces have the authority to:

-prohibit gatherings of more than five people;
-prohibit distribution of media or publications deemed to affect security or public order;
-prohibit or limit the use of vehicles or particular routes; and
-evacuate buildings or areas or prohibit entry into them.

You should expect to see more security forces personnel in the streets. You might encounter them at roadblocks or other security checkpoints. If you encounter police or military personnel, you should obey any and all instructions from them. Be sure to carry identification and proof of your U.S. citizenship at all times to present if asked by authorities.

Supporters of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (aka UDD or "red-shirts") in Chiang Mai city may go to Bangkok to assist UDD supporters there. Security forces may try to block these movements, which could lead to violent confrontations.

Political demonstrations by the UDD are expected to continue in Bangkok indefinitely. As a result, traffic congestion and difficulty of movement is possible throughout Bangkok, and traffic patterns may change unexpectedly as demonstrators block roads. Other forms of transportation, such as the BTS Skytrain, may close unexpectedly in response to threats or incidents, such as occurred on April 27, when protesters tried to block the tracks with tires.

There have been numerous incidents of explosive attacks, including several isolated grenade attacks, in and around Bangkok and Chiang Mai over the past two months. Additional explosive devices have been discovered before detonation. Some of these incidents occurred at or near areas frequented by U.S. citizens. These incidents appear to be motivated by domestic politics and do not appear to be acts of international terrorism. The possibility of more such attacks cannot be ruled out. U.S. citizens are reminded to exercise caution and vigilance at all times. Immediately report to law enforcement or security personnel any unattended packages or bags or suspicious objects in public areas.

On Saturday, April 10, UDD and Royal Thai Government security forces clashed in the Phanfa Bridge area, resulting in a number of fatalities. On April 27, UDD protesters clashed with police near the Thai Air Force headquarters at Don Muang. The UDD stopped and entered vehicles looking for military and police personnel. Media report that UDD leaders plan to block the movement of security forces from the provinces to Bangkok.

UDD supporters have threatened demonstrations in the provinces if its current demonstrations in Bangkok are forcibly dispersed, as occurred April 9, 10, and 24. Therefore, U.S. citizens should monitor public sources of information to stay abreast of the latest information concerning demonstrations and areas to avoid.

On the evening of April 22, 2010, several explosions occurred in the Silonm/Sala Daeng area at the Sala Daeng BTS Skytrain station causing a number of injuries, including at least one fatality. The possibility of more such attacks cannot be ruled out. U.S. citizens should avoid travel to and lodging in this area.

[SamplerDoc]

On the light side if there is one, is a photo on the cnn site about the caption below.....

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- At least eight people have been killed as Thai security forces declared a "live firing zone" in downtown Bangkok on Saturday following days of deadly clashes with anti-government protesters.


Well, I cant get the pic on here but its about the "Live Fire Zone" on photo 3............It reads "Life Firing Zone".

Maybe Bam or another tech savy person could post it?

Stay safe all

[deepthroat]

NEWS ANALYSIS
Thailand€™s King Sees Influence Fade as Crisis Intensifies
By SETH MYDANS and THOMAS FULLER
Published: May 15, 2010

BANGKOK €” A battle over Thailand€™s future is raging, but the one man who has been able to resolve such intractable conflicts in the past has been notably silent: King Bhumibol Adulyadej, long a unifying father figure for his nation.

Thailand is convulsed by a bitter struggle between the nation€™s elite and its disenfranchised poor, played out in protests that have paralyzed Bangkok for weeks and now threaten to expand. The ailing 82-year-old king finds his power to sway events ebbing as the fight continues over the shape of a post-Bhumibol Thailand.

€œIt€™s much bigger than the issue of succession,€ said Charles Keyes, an expert on Thailand at the University of Washington in Seattle. €œIt€™s a collapse of the political consensus that the monarchy has helped maintain.€

As his country suffers through its worst political crisis in decades, the king has disappointed many Thais by saying nothing that might calm the turmoil, as he did in 1973 and 1992 when with a few quiet words he halted eruptions of political bloodletting.

For more than two months now, demonstrators known as the red shirts, who represent in part the aspirations of the rural and urban poor, have occupied parts of Bangkok, forcing major malls and hotels to close as they demand that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva dissolve Parliament and hold a new election. Soldiers and protesters continued battling Saturday, and the Thai military declared a Bangkok neighborhood a €œlive-fire zone.€

After taking the throne nearly 64 years ago, King Bhumibol expanded his role as a constitutional monarch without political power into an enormous moral force, earned through his civic work and political astuteness. He has also presided over an expansion of the royal family€™s now vast business holdings. With the monarchy at its heart, an elite royalist class grew up including the bureaucracy, the military and entrenched business interests. A palace Privy Council has exerted power during the current crisis.

It is this elite class that the protesters are now challenging.

Those who seek to maintain the status quo have proclaimed themselves loyal to the king and have accused the red shirts of trying to destroy the monarchy as they seek changes in Thai society. For their part, most red shirts say they respect the king but want changes in the system he helped create.

The politicization of the king€™s name €œhas ensured that the monarchy cannot play a central conciliatory role any more,€ said Chris Baker, a British historian of Thailand.

More broadly, the divisions in society may have become too deep and the anger too hot to reconcile for years to come. Many analysts say a lasting class conflict has been ignited between the country€™s awakening rural masses and its elite hierarchy. With the king confined to a hospital since September with lung inflammation and other ailments, concern about the future has sharpened. The heir apparent to the throne, Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, has not inherited his father€™s popularity.

But discussion about the succession and about the future role of the monarchy are constricted to whispers and forbidden Internet sites by a severe lèse-majesté law. A 15-year penalty for anyone who €œdefames, insults or threatens the king, queen, the heir apparent or the regent€ has been broadly interpreted in cases brought against writers, academics, activists, and both foreign and local journalists.

Though it is the protesters who are pressing for change, including some who may see a republican form of government in the future, it is a leading member of the establishment party that now rules Thailand who put the issue into its plainest terms.

€œWe should be brave enough to go through all of this and even talk about the taboo subject of monarchy,€ said Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, in a speech last month that he gave, significantly, outside Thailand at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies in Washington. €œI think we have to talk about the institution of the monarchy, how would it have to reform itself to the modern globalized world.€

He spoke of Britain and the Netherlands as models, with constitutional monarchs who play a largely symbolic role.

On paper at least, those models are not so very different from the system now in place in Thailand. What sets King Bhumibol apart is the aura that surrounds him and the faith among many people that when things are really bad, he will step forward to save them from themselves.

In a way, what some Thais are saying now is simply that it is time for the king€™s €œchildren€ to grow up and solve their problems themselves.

€œThere might still be people in Thai society that want to see the king play a role in resolving the crisis,€ said Jon Ungpakorn, a former senator and one of the nation€™s most vocal advocates for democracy.

€œBut on the other side, a large section of society realizes that we should not depend on the monarchy for resolving crises,€ he said. €œIf we are to be a democratic system, we must learn to deal with our problems ourselves.€

During weeks of street demonstrations, protesters have assiduously asserted their patriotism. But unlike other protests in the city, there has been a conspicuous absence of portraits of the king. Among both residents of the northeast, the country€™s rural heartland, and the red-shirt protesters in Bangkok €” many of whom have traveled back and forth in shifts €” a new, less reverent tone has quietly crept into conversations.

Thai Army Cites €˜Live Fire Zone€™ as Clashes Continue (May 16, 2010)
Krasae Chanawongse, a medical doctor and former government minister in the northeast who is a strong monarchist, laments that €œmany people are talking about destroying the monarchy.€

But protest leaders insist that they are not challenging the king but the system that is built around him.

€œReal democracy would have the king at the top, with no elite class to interfere,€ said a protest leader, Nattawut Saikua, in an interview.

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra had built an electoral base among the country€™s poor majority, who also form the base of the red-shirt protesters, threatening the traditional supremacy of the old guard. A coup in 2006 that ousted Mr. Thaksin is believed to have had at least the tacit approval of the Privy Council and other elites who saw the prime minister and his base as a challenge to their power. The red shirts have demanded a new election that could bring back Mr. Thaksin, now abroad fleeing a prison sentence for corruption.

Whoever succeeds King Bhumibol, the veneration and the place the king holds at the heart of Thai society are unlikely to survive him.

€œIn private discussions people say to each other, €˜What will we do without him?€™ € said a prominent poet who, like many people speaking about the monarchy, insisted on anonymity. €œThey get disappointed and upset and even scared about the change in the future.€

As he has grown older, concerns have risen about divisions and disputes in society that might erupt once he is gone. It appears now, with the king no longer playing the role he has in the past, that those conflicts are already under way.