New to the scene & coming to Pattaya?

[Tomcat]

(f0xxee @ Jan. 29 2011,06:15) Lastly, in my opinion Patts is no worse than anywhere else.

Some truth in that but the its the very density of brain dead drunks flowing through walking street every second that is the factor. Probably 1% are accidents waiting to happen.      

If you can suffer the tweed and chalkdust for a few moments i will explain. Using an Electrical analogy i you could compare Benidorm in Spain which we could say has an idiot factor current flow of 3 Amps to Pattaya at 20 amps. theres probably a usefull equation somewhere that would suffice

Like Bumpa said " Family resort"      

[guydesavoy]

an idiot factor current flow of 3 Amps to Pattaya at 20 amps.

Like you say, it's the Amps not the voltage...Don't forget the wiring  

[Torurot]

The "clueless and unaware" should never be issued with a passport. Most wouldn't leave their brain behind when they go out back home, somehow when away they leave all common sense behind. It's disturbing.

[kahuna]

I just don't get it...

In all my travels here in Thailand I have never witnessed Thais beating on a falang nor have I ever witnessed falangs beating on each other...

I've heard a couple stories...But that's it...

For whatever reason I've been spared...

[Tomcat]

Another disaster i saw was a drunk fall out of the Eurobar opp Blue Sky Bar where the russians dance. he split his head open as he hit the bottom step after tripping from the top flight... i assume he tripped anyway

Not a pretty site..

[daveduke007]

I did try and relax in Linda's bar on WS one evening recently to watch the World go by.

But mostly all I witnessed were a lot "moron's" pass by ( i.e Russki's, Arabs etc) drinking their own booze bought from the 7/11 probaly

Didnt stay there long so I headed back to the sanctuary and chill good factor of the Corner Bar

Seeing as Karl has moved to The Famous bar now (which is just a couple of mintues stroll from the Corner Bar) and the Ezy bar closed I have no desire to venture on WS anymore

[jimslim]

Not having a go at you Paccers (you know's I loves ya) but it all boils down to what you perceive as dangerous .

Pattaya is full of idiots but our community tend to avoid these types and tend to be a lot better behaved , we just watch and laugh from afar .

In my opinion Thais will rarely get involved in trouble with tourists unless they really have to , they would rather suffer an annoying fool as long as they can keep them spending money .

Recently in Temptations in Nana I witnessed a very drunken guy bawling and shouting and pushing a ladyboy around in the bar claiming he'd been ripped off .
The guy was a mess bumping into tables and shouting into peoples faces . Had he done that to me or the guys with me one of us would have punched him for sure .

The mamasan made sure he paid up then let him go on his merry way and not a finger was lifted (though the drunk did pick a fight with the curtain but the curtain appeared to come off best )

Had a similar incident happened in my home city I doubt the locals would have shown the patience of the Thais .

[pacman]

I hear the subtext of your comments gents very loudly (you aren't saying I am lying but my version of the truth is questionable) & I should add some clarification.

I wrote in detail about the assaults I personally witnessed last year during my extended holiday in Pattaya. More of them & more violent than I had seen in 35 years of travelling to LOS.

The farang in WS I came upon with blood streaming down his face after being hit. He was in a bad way, I felt quite helpless & wasn't too thrilled to see him bundled onto the tray of a utility that took him to hospital.

The next night there was the Euro gent, young lad actually, who was hit from behind twice by girls running at full pace on WS. The first girl knocked him to the ground, the second girl finished him off. Right in front of me. I can't get the image out of my mind.

Later there was the drunken Englishman screaming loudly at a group of young Thais who proceeded to belt the living shit out of him. I couldn't watch after the a few minutes.

On the strength of those attacks I would never have started this thread. It was only after striking up a friendship with the volunteer tourist policeman who told me my stories were nothing compared to what he put up with every night.

Bear in mind this was back in the middle of the quietest low season ever when many girls either left for home or were living off what they could beg, borrow or steal. I saw girls almost driven mad by their situation. And as the saying goes, desperate people do desperate things.

Then there is the question of exactly who was being targeted in these attacks, that they should be mainly one nationality will come as no surprise after witnessing their appalling behaviour. Any Iranians here on the board? I apologise for identifying your fellow countrymen as the culprits.

I personally didn't see them being attacked but I certainly saw the way they carried on with the Thais. There were times when I wanted to punch them myself. These idiots treated Pattaya as one giant brothel, OK it is, but that doesn't mean EVERY single female walking around can be groped & abused as their next sex conquest.

It was unclear how many of the assaults were aimed at these gents, what is clear is the Thais hated them.

Every night I would stop to chat with my friend & always asked how many people needed police help this evening & every night I was regaled by stories of assaults, beatings, etc. I wasn't expecting to be told the range & frequency of these attacks. Hence the thread.

If someone else had started it I would have jumped in saying I don't see all this violence. And wandering around every night, I didn't, apart from what I mentioned earlier.

I think an analogy for this is the number of road deaths we have here at home. I drive every day & I can't remember the last time I saw an idiot on the road breaking the law, yet we still have about 300 people killed in accidents every year. Just because I can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[f0xxee]

Hi Paccie,

Noted your points above. I always find it amusing/hypocritical/disgusting that fundamentalists (be they christian or muslim) are the worst offenders when it comes to brothel creeping.  They are the kind of guys who have a fuck then after slap the girl for "making" them unclean. Pricks one an all. At least us BM's generally love the girls. Sometimes too much! No doubt most go home and then share the joy with thier wives too.

Head wounds bleed a lot. They are often not as bad as they appear. Skulls  are also designed to accept a lot of damage otherwise how would boxers and rugby players survive?

I know its hard to watch and can be shocking, particularly if you have been isolated from these incidents.  Maybe I am callous, but I generally suspect most people getting a flogging deserve it, unless there is clearly a mob mentality in evidence.

I think raising the conciousness of potential points of conflicts is worthwhile and you have done so.

Perhaps a bullet point list of things NOT to do or guaranteed to upset the average Lek and Somchai might be worthwhile.

As for Falang on Falang violence: I have suggested strategies for dealing with that earlier.

cheers,

[Torurot]

Most violence I have witnessed in Thailand has been Farang on Farang, usually drunk & over some girl or imagined slight or offence or long standing grudge. The Farang/Thai I have witnessed with two notable exceptions was caused by the Farang. You can call it "cultural difference" if you like, but seeing the beginning of a number of these that's a bullshit excuse; the Farang STARTED it well and truly, and if you had been in a pub situation back home that same Farang would have started a fight. I couldn't see the justification, but the result was always one bloodied Farang with multiple Thai piling in.

That's not a dig at Packers. If you wander around Pataya looking like your clueless "trouble" will stalk you, but so it would at home (where ever home is) unless you live on a lighthouse or some other isolated some where.

There is always going to be one or two Thai nutters who like to whack Farang just for the fun of it, but that type is in every large city in the world.

[Damocles]

I should stop reading this thread it's depressing me    But as Pacman says, it's started a decent debate.

Now I've gone all serious and run out of perv reports to read, here's my take:

I've run large nightclubs in England and Asia (not as many) for the last 25 years; I know the talk is of Pattaya but some things run true no matter where you are, especially when you have a highly concentrated drinking area such as WS and environs. And westerners who either can't hold their drink or have 'issues' are the same everywhere.

It can be deeply shocking to see an incident such as those Pacman describes, particularly if it's not something you see much of. See it often enough and you desensitise a little, at the same time gearing up on your own precautions as you go; it subtly makes you more wary as you learn more about human nature and its unpredictable (and sometimes very predictable) side. I can totally empathise with the shock Pacman felt at the incident/s he saw; it has a profound effect on a person. When you see the look on the face of someone who is without question prepared to stab or shoot you without consideration of consequence, it is something that will take a while to get over and deal with.

Over the years I have seen violence escalate from fists and sometimes bottles, to knives, to guns and a combination of them all. Younger people are less afraid of consequences and a mutated form of 'respect' dominates the mindset of many. That 'respect' is leagues away from the old-school gangster mind-set which could be settled with words and logic. I'm not expert enough to equate that to 'Face' in Asia but I wouldn't be surprised at a mutation of its meaning.

Blame it on what you like - computer games, the breakdown of family and society, drugs, whatever, it bores me to discuss that now - the fact remains that its become worse everywhere. I don't know Pattaya like you guys, I've been visiting Bangkok often for months at a time for the last 20 years. I've seen enough fights, usually Thai on farang, and have avoided through a developed sixth sense many many more.  I guess that's why Pattaya never really attracted before; I had nothing to make me want to visit and am all too aware of the dangers of the melting pot.

I've now been twice in the last 3 months, just for a few days, made friends and had a look. Yes, be aware; but so far no more aware than if I were in Nana or Patpong (god forbid though I do like a decent bar there!). Walking Street puts me on top guard though.

The one thing that struck me is the willingness of doorstaff here to go to war quite quickly. Obviously there are many exceptions to the rule but the trigger is hair in many others. I sense little training and co-ordination with the Police ("well duh" I hear you say) but a man held down with something less than a plank of 2x4 and taken away for a night in a cell is much more preferable to blood everywhere and other charges pending for the assailant (duh again). I saw the same thing in a club in Malaysia which had massive issues with violence, most of which I leveled at the doorstaff - they didn't understand. Anyone showing lack of respect (by their definition) was fair game. Once they did, and it was damn hard, a new reputation for the club was carved out.

Frankly all I want is somewhere I can go, get totally drunk (Thailand is the only place I drink in between jobs) and have a laugh - for that reason I tend not to explore, instead rooting myself to a few checked-out spots where I become known and can relax a little, which by the way is how I discovered the Guess Bar). My own definition of that is if I don't have to check my bin every 5 minutes and I don't feel I have to face front and constantly be on guard. Do you know how annoying it is to always have to face the damn door in a restaurant?   There's never an ideal though, which is a shame and makes me unhappy and unable to really let go. I can drink all night but when it's time to walk home at 6am my brain clicks back into gear even more.

I get quite jealous of those that can still be even slightly oblivious to the mood in the air around them - I still think they're better off than me and will enjoy themselves much much more.


So Pacman - I totally get where you're coming from. I don't think things will improve, only get worse. So people's coping mechanisms will follow on many levels. Which is fucking sad.

Sorry to bang on, but it was quite cathartic for me hehe  

[pacman]

     Bang on all you like sir, I like your story & I appreciate your understanding.

I also find posting to be cathartic, I often get more personally from writing stuff out than I give to my fellow BMs. And if it means sharing something useful than we both win.

For 4 posts Damocles you have a nice turn of phrase. Please feel free to relate any worthy tales of your time in Asia. And elsewhere for that matter. Start a thread in the Trip Reports forum, it need not be chronological or only about LBs, interesting stories & observations are appreciated.

[f0xxee]

Hey Damocles,

Good post mate, well written and apt for this discussion. Had you been here two years ago you would have seen my post relating to overly aggressive doormen on a club in BKK.

Cheers,

JF

[Damocles]

Thanks a lot guys - I was a bit concerned I had gone on a little *wiping dribble from the corner of my mouth*

[pacman]

(Damocles @ Feb. 01 2011,08:38) I was a bit concerned I had gone on a little

I do it all the time...

Got over it years ago...