New to the scene & coming to Pattaya?

[pacman]

I have read the posts since I was last on the air (my ISP disconnected my internet service while I was away & I have only just been reconnected...     ) & I think an explanatory reply is in order.

I was expecting to get blasted for incitement by those who have a vested interest in declaring Pattaya to be as safe as houses (though just why I don't understand) & I am well pleased by the supportive comments from the others. Thanks fellas, I get so tired when I am the messenger who has to be shot.

First up, a confession - I have only realised since I have been home that I was completely traumatised by my witnessing of the young Euro lad getting his head caved in on Walking Street back in July or August. I wrote about it in my thread "More of Pattaya's Finest". It affected me more than I realised. I found myself seeing it over & over in my head & I repeated the story to anyone who listened.

Then I had a few nights out with several Pattaya first-timers (both BMs & others) & I saw just how vulnerable they were to being manipulated by the girls for a tip. The girls have good radar as to who the new guys are. It wouldn't be too hard I guess, the guys aren't relaxed & are looking everywhere, they stick out a bit.

We all know what happens next - the usual pressure to buy a drink, then some passive/aggressive comments that could be interpretted as a veiled threat, it all depends on the girl & the demeanour of the farang just how far this can go. But a few of the fellas I was with were rattled by the experience. And I was sitting nearby ready to help.

This started me thinking, do I have any obligation to post a warning to new visitors? I can justify doing nothing, we are not our brother's keeper after all. But that isn't how my mind works & maybe due to the large amounts of drugs in my system (hospital administered), I found the subject wouldn't go away until I started the thread.

Of course I resorted to hyperbole, how was I to grab anyone's attention with such rivetting lines like: "Please be careful when in Pattaya because there are some nasty girls who want to take advantage of you". Blimey, I have been shot down for many things but read my opening post again, it wasn't that bad. (See Deepthroat's post above)

So fully aware I would offend those who love Pattaya I went ahead & posted. But before I hit "Send" I wondered how I could communicate to those whose ire I was sure to unleash. That is, those experienced visitors to LOS who can negotiate the girls & bars without trouble.

So I aimed the title directly at the new guys, those who haven't visited Pattaya yet.

NEW TO THE SCENE & COMING TO PATTAYA? I don't know how I could make it any clearer. And I repeat, for the uninitiated, Pattaya is a warzone.

[f0xxee]

(pacman @ Oct. 13 2010,18:33) And I repeat, for the uninitiated, Pattaya is a warzone.

Paccers,

I think our issue is with the term "warzone" or at least it is for me.

Not long ago at S'bhumi I was talking to a very polite young american gentleman, a marine recently demobilized having served in Iraq. I asked him what day1, on the ground, first time you go on patrol was like. He told me of the fear of failure, the fear of getting his mates killed, his fear of freezing up when he had responsibilities. I asked about fears of physical injury and maiming. He told be that while he had those fears they were secondary to his fear of letting his mates down.

I have never seen military service.

But i find your continued referral to Patts as a warzone as hyperbole bordering on offensive. Yellow journalism-Fox News at its worst.

It simply is NOT a warzone. Not for the uninitiated or anyone else. A warzone for the uninitiated was where my brave young mate above found himself.

What it is is Bondi Beach on Australia Day, Coney Island on 4th July, and probably Mecca during Haj for all I know. Where ever there is a crowd and heat there is potential for violence. Where there is alcohol and young folk and exposed skin that risk increases.

So a guy got his head caved in. How many died on motorbikes while you were there? Just as gruesome. Same result. So why no diatribe on motorbikes?

It is not a warzone. Its Slut-land. And where there is sex there is also thugs, drugs and rock an roll. (Apologies to Billy Thorpe.)

[Lefty]

Exactly!

There was no point so in need of being made that hyperbole was necessary.

[pacman]

     Ohhh gawd...      

You know I have the heart of a poet! Of course Pattaya can't be compared to Iraq, Afghanistan or any other real warzone.

I was using the term in its most metaphoric, euphemistic sense & I am sorry to all those who took offence. I really didn't think I was being so obtuse...      

How many died on motorbikes while you were there? Just as gruesome. Same result. So why no diatribe on motorbikes?

What the hell is the point of me writing about motorbike deaths? I have lost friends to motorbike accidents & I could argue that I find that topic offensive. I don't but the ferocity of your attacks against me for espousing a different view to yours has gone beyond predictable.

I am prepared to debate any reasonable complaint to an opinion I express but I really have to call a truce with you when the impression I get is that you only want to side against me. Your writing is all about putting me down & often without subtlety.

But I don't bear a grudge, we have shared some funny times online & I don't forget.

My final word to all those who I have upset with my comments, just what are you going to say to the first guy here who gets attacked while on holiday in Pattaya? That it was his fault? That he forgot to smile? That he was a weak prick who should have gone to Disneyland?

I really cannot fathom why Pattaya has been so stoutly defended by people who understand the place as well, or less, than I do. Have I crossed some secret line not to speak ill of the place? I don't get it.

[Lefty]

(pacman @ Oct. 13 2010,18:33) I was expecting to get blasted for incitement by those who have a vested interest in declaring Pattaya to be as safe as houses


We all know what happens next - the usual pressure to buy a drink, then some passive/aggressive comments that could be interpretted as a veiled threat, it all depends on the girl & the demeanour of the farang just how far this can go. But a few of the fellas I was with were rattled by the experience. And I was sitting nearby ready to help.

Who has a vested interest in declaring Pattaya safe? Whom amongst the respondents? Not me that's for sure.

As for the pressure to  buy them a drink and comments that could be interpreted as a veiled threat. I have NEVER felt pressured into buying a drink and when I have been merely asked and have declined doing so, I have NEVER heard any responses that could be interpreted as a veiled threat by any stretch of the imagination. IMO that sounds like a lot of poppycock.

[f0xxee]

(pacman @ Oct. 13 2010,20:00) I don't but the ferocity of your attacks against me for espousing a different view to yours has gone beyond predictable.

I am prepared to debate any reasonable complaint to an opinion I express but I really have to call a truce with you when the impression I get is that you only want to side against me. Your writing is all about putting me down & often without subtlety.

But I don't bear a grudge, we have shared some funny times online & I don't forget.

What?

I really dont think my posts have been particularly ferocious of late, or for that matter pointed. Was i putting you down or refuting your hyperbole? I night have said I thought you had overstayed and were jaded but it seems I was not alone in this thought.

I think if you read back you will see that I complimented you on your enthusiasm as a poster, and as a general contributer to this forum.

At the end of the day its your thread mate. You want to demonize Fort Apache/Pattaya then you go your hardest.

You have nothing to lose except your credibility.

[rxpharm]

While I have not done a long stay as pacman did, I do think that the scene has changed because of the prolonged paucity of customers for the general tourism industry in LOS. In the past there was no shortage of free spending tourists. Today's economic realities mean there are far fewer "high" value tourists visiting LOS, and so more competition to extract the most out of the ones who do make it to LOS.

During my last 2 week visit in July/Aug I was struck that things were so quiet - much less than prior visits at the same time. I was also struck by the impression I had that the Thais working in the tourism sectors did not seem as happy as in the past.

I do not doubt there are more scams going on because of tough times, just reading the Nation and Bangkok Post I see more stories of crimes involving farangs and Thais. This is typical in any countries where the economy has slowed down.

While I don't see things as dramatic as pacman, there is no doubt in my mind that visitors to LOS must be more alert to scams, etc. than the past. For instance, when I checked into my hotel in Jomtien Beach they assigned us a room in the back where construction was going on - despite the fact it was less than 50% occupied. For another 200 Baht a night they could move us to the front where it was quiet. Also in addition they said the Agoda special price did not include breakfast (which was definitely included in their Agoda ad), but since we don't usually partake it didn't make much difference to us. I could have pressed the issue, but for 300 Baht difference it wouldn't have been worth the headache.

As for violent incidents involving farangs, I think this is often related to drunk, boorish behavior and that a regular monger who doesn't get completely plastered and maintains a polite attitude will not get into much trouble.

On another note it is good to see pacman is back safe and sound at home. I was thinking that his lack of posting for a while meant he might have had another visit to the hospital!

[El_hefe]

I think some of what you are seeing isn't just the effects of the worldwide recession on the Thai people, but also the fragile political situation which seems to me is simply simmering just under the surface right now & it must be a bit of a 1-2 punch for the Seeam natives waiting for what's next?

[Crackerjax]

foxxee wrote:

Where there is alcohol and young folk and exposed skin

is where I want to be!

[kahuna]

Let's see, Mardhi and Lefty actually live in Pattaya...

EyeMahk, Snick and Tomcat are frequent frequent frequent visitors...

All seem to disagree with Pacman...

So my question is, just what does Deepthroat think about English food?

[Snick]

(kahuna @ Oct. 14 2010,14:18) Let's see, Mardhi and Lefty actually live in Pattaya...

EyeMahk, Snick and Tomcat are frequent frequent frequent visitors...

All seem to disagree with Pacman...

Don't be putting words in my mouth !

I posted how dangerous Pattaya was, my left nipple is still sore after last weekend.Not to mention the damage done to my wallet.

Its an evil evil place, much better for all if they just fly to Thailand and stay at a Wat for a week of meditating.

[Lefty]

Aahh, Snick, ever the facetious one.

[kahuna]

(Snick @ Oct. 14 2010,14:46) I posted how dangerous Pattaya was, my left nipple is still sore after last weekend.  Not to mention the damage done to my wallet.

Your wallet just might be in better shape if you stopped buying new shirts to cover your injury prone nipple...

[pacman]

(Lefty @ Oct. 13 2010,20:02) As for the pressure to  buy them a drink and comments that could be interpreted as a veiled threat. I have NEVER felt pressured into buying a drink and when I have been merely asked and have declined doing so, I have NEVER heard any responses that could be interpreted as a veiled threat by any stretch of the imagination. IMO that sounds like a lot of poppycock.

You are not the girl's target market, I wasn't including Pattaya vets as the guys who might be lined up for a bit of intimidation. And I can't see you ever being on the receiving end of a veiled threat, the guys I was referring to are nowhere as physically imposing as you.

For those who don't know Lefty, he has biceps bigger than my thighs...      

And as for being a lot of poppycock, with all due respect, you weren't there. I am not suggesting the girls held a knife to the newbie's throat, they were just aggressive with their language in making demands for a drink.

And there have been several references on the net about the Cascade girls in Bangkok making death threats against guys when they ignored requests for a drink. For someone who doesn't know what they are up against, that would be quite frightening.

[pacman]

(kahuna @ Oct. 14 2010,14:18) Let's see, Mardhi and Lefty actually live in Pattaya...

EyeMahk, Snick and Tomcat are frequent frequent frequent visitors...

All seem to disagree with Pacman...

I don't see how this is relevant, all the gentlemen mentioned should know that assaults happen on a nightly basis in Pattaya, that they don't agree with me is nothing new.

Living in Pattaya doesn't give anyone special insight into everything that is going on. And do all these esteemed BMs vehemently think I am out of order & my warnings are irrelevant & to be disregarded? For newcomers that is, not the guys who know their way around.

And before I have to defend myself again, I should explain that I learnt about nightly bashings not just from being an eye witness, I befriended one of the Volunteer Tourist Police who I stopped to chat with virtually every night I was there. It was he who opened my eyes to the level of violence that was occurring. He would relate in gory detail who had been sent to hospital & how serious the injuries were.

It became our running gag - "how many did they get tonight?" was my opening line & he was always up for a chat about who got what. It struck me as sport while I was there but there is nothing funny about getting a stiletto heel in the back of your head.

I really feel I can't argue the case any further. I will thank those who contributed to the thread for giving it more exposure & I will wish all BMS the good sense to stay safe. Especially the first-timers to Pattaya, those who I originally posted this for.

I don't suppose there's any point in this thread being pinned?