THE UGLY PART.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(rxpharm @ Dec. 15 2007,11:04) Love, lust or whatever you want to call it is a funny thing - a friend of mine once called it a "temporary state of insanity". While poguemahone had a bad outcome it would have been nice to see him "strike the lottery" and have a happy marriage.  Yes the odds are against having a permanent relationship with a p4p lady, whether gg or bg. Despite all the warnings, unhappy stories (many written on the forum), guys will continue to try and maybe someday we will see that 1 in a million happy ending.

When we wish good luck, it doesn't mean we are nodding someone on to the path of doom!  It is simply we wish him good luck that it will work out, even though the odds are against him.

This was not the first time PM has been burned by the way, so it isn't like he was a newbie either.

I am sure we will read many more stories like this on the forum before we will read about a success.

Is that "1 in a million happy ending" worth another trainwreck?

And how do you define "happy ending" or "success"?

One month? One year? Five years? Or until death does them part? If success if defined by the latter, then the relationship the bloke who overdosed on 300 mg of Viagra had with his whore was a roaring success.

PM's relationship was ostensibly a success until it failed a month later.

Further, is wishing "good luck" to a spud spinning headlong into the abyss, while squelching the odd cynic, really the best policy? I think most people would prefer a policy of truth, and in the case of a dangerous situation, common human decency would compel as much. If you are a bit sozzled and itching to drive home, I bet your sober self would want your mates to tell you to stop being a dildo, rather than to tell you "good luck". But the reality is that a teenaged boy with access to whiskey and carkeys probably has a better chance of getting home unscathed than an old geezer does who has found love with a hooker in a foreign bar. A bloke like that has lost complete possession of all his faculties.

If more people had been straight-up with PM earlier it might have been avoided. There is a time and place for admonitions such as STOP THINKING WITH YOUR THING, SHIT FOR BRAINS.

For fuck's sake, if you ever see me eager to hop on an aeroplane loaded with dynamite and dervishes, please don't wish me "good luck"! I suppose there is that "1 in a million chance" I might land safely though!

[rxpharm]

A Forum about lbs in Thailand is not where one would find their best mates to give advice about relationships. There are plenty of stories about what can happen to guys who try relationships with p4p ladies.

This is a something called personal responsibility. PM did not go into this without knowledge of what could happen. He has posted that he has been burned before - so wishing him good luck is like pushing him over a cliff? It's like those guys who like rock climbing, base jumping, etc. High risk activities sure and something you may think is absolutely crazy - but they make the choice despite all the advice to the contrary.

You seem more upset with the outcome than he does - and why is that?

This forum is not suppressing the truth, there is plenty of information about the dangers of trying a relationship with a p4p worker. Calling someone a complete idiot thinking only with his small brain instead of his big brain will not serve as a convincing argument to stop doing something stupid.

[stogie bear]

A Forum about lbs in Thailand is not where one would find their best mates to give advice about relationships...

I don't know about that, matey...

I can't think of a more rational group of chaps than on here. There are some very knowledgable people who have experience of relationships with Thai lbs and are more than able and willing (and qualified) to set out the pitfalls without perverting the reality...

Unfortunately people tend not to heed the advice and refuse to learn from other peoples stories.

I'd say the general level of advice and responses here are spot on and given the complexities of a relationship with a transsexual person I can't think of anyplace better to discuss this issue.

Some of the more inexperienced readers may see a lot of the posts as harsh and cynical. There maybe a few who derive a certain pleasure from seeing these relationships fail. But by and large the level of factual information here on subects relating to relationships with ladyboys from Thailand (working or not) is probably better and more accurate on here than any place else on the internet.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(rxpharm @ Dec. 15 2007,14:56) You seem more upset with the outcome than he does - and why is that?

"Things aren't always what they seem."
-- L.A. Guns, The Ballad of Jayne

I can't explain why things seem the way they do to you.

[Ladyboy_Loser!]

And now it is time again for me to have my two cents worth. Of course I knew the odds were stacked against me, so what? Living your life, taking chances and moving on when somethings fails is a part of growing up. I tried my best, I gave it my best shot and that is all that needs to be said. Life is an adventure or it is nothing at all. Please spare me any admonitions about a P4P LB incapable of having a long term meaningful relationahip with a Farang. The only sure thing in this world is our death and taxes. For those who feel vindicated by my failure I say to them , fuck off you losers. I at least had the balls to attempt a marriage. To those who offered advice, support I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I have not slammed Bow on this forum, she was only behaving in a way that is part of the nature of a lot of the LB'S. She made me very happy for a long time, we had a lot of good times together. I wish that it had worked out for us. I wish her good luck and a good life.

[daveduke007]

(PogueMahone @ Dec. 16 2007,01:15) And now it is time again for me to have my two cents worth.  Of course I knew the odds were stacked against me, so what?  Living your life, taking chances and moving on when somethings fails is a part of growing up.  I tried my best, I gave it my best shot and that is all that needs to be said.  Life is an adventure or it is nothing at all.  Please spare me any admonitions about a P4P LB incapable of having a long term meaningful relationahip with a Farang.  The only sure thing in this world is our death and taxes.  For those who feel vindicated by my failure I say to them , fuck off you losers.  I at least had the balls to attempt a marriage.  To those who offered advice, support I thank you from the bottom of my heart.  I have not slammed Bow on this forum, she was only behaving in a way that is part of the nature of a lot of the LB'S.  She made me very happy for a long time, we had a lot of good times together.  I wish that it had worked out for us.  I wish her good luck and a good life.

good on yer PM

[kahuna]

(Fred_Nguyen @ Dec. 15 2007,13:02) For fuck's sake, if you ever see me eager to hop on an aeroplane loaded with dynamite and dervishes, please don't wish me "good luck"!

I'd wager if you climbed on an airplane loaded with dynamite, few guys on this Forum would say a word...Except perhaps, Cheers...

[Fred_Nguyen]

(PogueMahone @ Dec. 16 2007,09:15) For those who feel vindicated by my failure I say to them , fuck off you losers.  

I doubt anyone feels vindicated.

Rxpharm even wrote that I seemed more upset by the outcome than you. I was a bit ticked-off by the reception my fairly benign comment of dissent got about a month before your relationship went bust, including getting called a "dick-head". What was left was overly glowing praise for your ill-fated proposition, and in my humble opinion, that is unfair to you.

I think this board is great and serves everyone well, but in this specific case, I was called a dick-head and the dissenting viewpoint was deleted, essentially leaving only comments by toadies.

Please forgive me if I came across too blunt. It hurts to lose someone you love, and I am very sorry for your loss.

[stogie bear]

I'd still be interested in a response to Jellybeans question...

Looking back - were there signs that it wasn't going to turn out the way you had originally planned?

[jellybean]

I have a genuine interest - Kai and I have been together for 8 months now and life is good and dispite me looking for signs its going to go pear-shaped I can't see it and yes I have been married before and know what to look for.
Life with Kai is everything I hoped it would be. She is currently home in Thailand visiting her family and I'm joining her at the end of this week. For me the next crunch point will come in January - will she return to Scotland with me as she knows what she is coming back to this time? Must say, when we talked she was still coming back.

[dax spadackel]

ive lived and worked and holidayed many times in thailand. I hear alot about face and understand it only in my consciousness as honor rewarded for merit, i think anybody with some level of maturity understands the concept of meritocracy based on performance n reward. But what i think will always make me laugh if when working girls or just women with an agenda(cock or cockless) over the most transparent bullshite gets all u guys into talking about ''face'', if u havent felt the walls close in on u in thailand from this and felt the utter bullshite of thier concept of greang jai, which i admit makes the place alot of times so charming and endearing then i pity u,,, i look at the bar girl scene in thai as haveng some of the most full of shite people in the world who just also happen to be some of the most enjoyable and charming to be around,, lets enjoy it for what it is and not get lost in it.

[Ladyboy_Loser!]

To answer your question SB, I thought that in the three years before I asked her to marry I had gotten a pretty good idea of the type of person she was. On all our holidays, all the time together in Bangkok there was never a problem. She never asked for money, never took me to a gold shop, never took me to high end shops. When I did get engaged with her we talked a little bit about was expected of me regarding taking care of her and providing her the means to help her family. Nothing major and certainly nothing that I was not aware of. Remember, I had read, re-read and re-read again Thailand Fever so I was not going into this with a blindfold on. For the one year before the wedding, she was living in her parents home in Krasang, no trips to Bangkok unless it was to meet me. I thought this time it was going to work out, I had done due diligence, I had taken my time, I had looked for signs that she was not what she seemed. We married in November of 2006 and all seemd fine. I bought the home at the end of November and we were able to move in at the end of December. So far, so good. I bought some furniture, a lot of kitchen appliances, a car and a motor scooter. We talked about what we were going to do in 2007. Her SRS was the number one thing that she most cared about. I still had to make trips back to California so we spoke two or three times a day until I would get back. I was giving her 25,000 Baht every month and when I was not there she would pay the household bills. If I was there when the bills came in I just payed them and still gave her the allowance. Our first major blow up came in late April after the roof problem. I had given the man a third of the amount owed for the work and when he had left Bow wanted me to buy her a 1Baht braclet. She claimed that because she was taking care of me I owed her a present. Needless to say that went over with me like a lead balloon and I told I had just agreed to having our home remodeled to a higher standard than before the roof problem. She threw a hissy fit, took a bottle of Tequila and went to the au-pair unit at the back of the property. After an hour she came into the house and told me she was going out shopping. When she returned in a few hours she was even more drunk and I got really pissed. Since I was heading to Bangkok later that night on the train I just called a friend and had him take me to the station earlier. I did not call her for three days until I was calm enough to talk with her. In this case I had misunderstood what she was talking about and we got things worked out. However that gave me pause and I began to take my time when it came to dolling out money. When her family had a big problem I took care of it, we talked about her and her Mama having a small business to run. She was getting bored just sitting at home or in her parents home and I thought that this would give her a sense of purpose and responsibility. She took to it a like a duck to water and it made her happy to have a shop and a job to go to everyday. Then came the ugly part. I thought that I was missing about three thousand baht from my billfold one day but I could not be sure, shopping at Big C, eating out two or three times a day I thought that maybe I had miscounted. Two days later I knew how much was in the billfold because I had gone to the ATM, later that night I opened it and there was another two baht missing. I did not know what to do, I did not want to confront her and accuse her of stealing from me but on the other hand she was the only one who had access to my wallet. When she went to take a shower I looked in her jeans and there was two one thousand baht noters in her pocket. That was it, I called her out on it, told her that stealing was a deal breaker. She claimed no knowledge of taking the money, big surprise there. I just packed a bag and left for Bangkok. She called the next afternoon and tried to explain that she was not a bad person, that she did not think taking money was problem because it was "our" money. Yeah, I know at that point I should have told her to "fuck off" but I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I had to return to California for two month prior to her SRS and as time went by and we talked I put the issue aside. I wanted it to work out for us, I had put a lot of time, effort,patience into our marriage. I know that my not speaking Thai and her limited English skills could and would lead to misunderstanding. The straw that broke the camels back came two weeks before my return and her operation. I had wired into her account the 25,000Baht and only three days later she told me that she spent it all. None of the bills had been payed, she had given it to her sister for her university fees, her mother for her other two sisters high school expenses and some other things she would not mention. I hit the ceiling and that was when she told me I was not taking good enough care of her. Her friend Liza was getting almost 1000,000Baht a month from her boyfriend or so Liza claimed. Her other friend in Krasang was married to Farang and according to this friend the guys was building a home for them and one for her parents plus giving her two bank accounts. Bow said I was not taking care of her and family good enought, she wanted more. She said that I did not love her, that I had taken advantage of her.
Now you know the rest of the story. I really did not want to explain the sad details but perhaps it's best to get the facts out there and let you guys be the judge. In her eyes I was nothing but a cheap charlie and she wanted a lot more from me. Funny thing is if she had waited for six more months when I had finally cut all ties to America she would had a lot more money for her and her family. Her loss and now my gain.

[James Taylor]

PM, a breakup is a lousy thing to have to go through, I was in a bit of a shock when I started reading this thread (especially after previously having read 1 or 2 (?) threads of yours in which everything seemed to be plain sailing). Don't know you but wish you the best of luck in the future.
I've had the exact opposite experience. I've been going steady with my LB girlfriend for 9 years now. She's the youngest in a big family, was brought up by her sisters mostly, her father, whom I knew quite well, accepted her, her mother didn't. She finished high school and then got into the entertainment business by way of waitressing and cabaret jobs. When I met her she was on yabba, freelancing in Bangkok, basically on the way out. We agreed she'd have to leave the scene and kick the habit, which she did. Half a year after meeting for the first time she joined me. We spent some time in SEA, never living in Thailand though (because I never worked there), then Europe and now back in SEA. Her ties to the entertainment industry were completely severed, the Thais she's befriended in the time since meeting me are all happily married overseas, usually friends or colleagues of mine. We get to see her family about twice a year. I've never been asked for money, they're not well off but make a decent living farming rice and having their own smallish businesses. We've never had a serious argument.
I put the success of our relationship down mainly to the fact that she removed herself completely from the scene, that we're the same age (just two months apart), that she's from a self- reliant family, that I treat her just like I treated previous girlfriends and that she's got a higher than average (for Thais) education.
On the other hand I do consider myself lucky and I do realise that in the most part, partnerships with somebody from the "biz" can and will go terribly wrong. Hope things start looking up for you quickly!

[kahuna]

Only fools are gonna judge you here PM...Most all of us who are willing to admit it, have had or are having or trying to have or dreaming of having a relationship with one of these girls...

It is interesting to me that Thais are so rooted in the past that they can't see beyond today...there is little concept for tomorrow...

My present addiction, despite the words that come from her mouth, has an uncanny way of surreptitiously reminding me that I am just a customer...which is a good thing for me...

[Guest]

She claimed no knowledge of taking the money

she did not think taking money was problem because it was "our" money

what a weasel.

PM you should go to cascade buy a 1000 batt bucket of ping pong balls and throw them at her