When you are ready to explore....

[Guest]

(deepthroat @ Mar. 15 2010,10:31) ....... I cannot take the risk of re-awakening my addiction by using any mind or mood altering chemicals, even if only for the therapeutic effect in a controlled situation such as what you've described. Think of it as an allergy - I'm deeply allergic to any chemicals that alter my mood, and I eventually break out can live with that!) and restrict my spiritual journey to anipi ceremony (sweat lodge) and Marillion concerts, both of which bring me in touch with my "higher power".

"an allergy that makes me break out in handcuffs"-i'm having that one!
Yes,as appealing as new experiences are to me,I also have to be ultra careful with what I ingest.What would seriously worry me also in getting into the hallucinogens(again),is that fear of going to a place mentally ,from where I could never return.Remember Pink Floyd's Syd Barrett?One too many acid trips ,or so they say.

[Socrates999]

(JaiDee @ Mar. 14 2010,19:19)

(PigDogg @ Mar. 14 2010,12:01) This is not a weekend at Kripalu, Omega, Harbin, BigSur, Sedona................  

Rather it's the real deal.

Exactly.  

This is like the peak; and just to re-iterate before this thread goes away forever, Ayahuasca is NOT a drug! Men do not make it like LSD or Ecstasy, it is a brew made from all-natural plants and tree bark, about 7 all told, and is all 100% natural; it is medicine, pure and simple, and the Chinese and amazonian tribes are among dozens of cultures from around the globe who have been making cures with plants similar to these for thousands of years.

My friend  lives near Sedona and says that is like the epicenter of all new-agish stuff in north america; but she was blown away by her experience in Peru; she just couldn't believe what the Ayahuasca did for her and couldn't wait to get back to Sedona and report it to all her hippie friends.

 I can't wait to go back there myself, I am thinking this summer.    

Not only is it a drug, but it is simply the drug DMT. Nothing mystical about it. The brew contains enzymatic inhibitors so that the drug remains active after passing the stomach environment and the circulatory enzymes that might degrade it quickly. While it appears to biochemically mimic the action of lysergic acid, it produces effects more akin to the hallucinogens marijuana, psilocybin and peyote. Brain wave patterns of users most closely resemble those of marijuana users.

I'd posit that one has moved on to a more effective, safer, cheaper and longer-lasting form of self-exploration when one practices regular meditation/self-hypnosis, obviating the need for drugs.

Still fun to read about your experiences. As someone who has (barely) survived over 100 LSD trips, grown my own psilocybin farm and eaten some nasty, bathtub-synthesized hallucinogens, including DMT relatives, it is similar to hearing highly charged newbies to the LB scene, bringing in their wide-eyed tales and extolling their new discoveries. It makes my mouth water for that virgin experience again! Your brain is probably much more resilient than mine: not sure if I could 100% return from another intense, drug-induced psychotropic experience!

[TTChang]

Great post!

[guydesavoy]

(Socrates999 @ Mar. 15 2010,16:39) I'd posit that one has moved on to a more effective, safer, cheaper and longer-lasting form of self-exploration when one practices regular meditation/self-hypnosis, obviating the need for drugs.

I think that's a better long term solution.

[JaiDee]

(Socrates999 @ Mar. 15 2010,16:39) Not only is it a drug, but it is simply the drug DMT. Nothing mystical about it. The brew contains enzymatic inhibitors

yes, great post and same as deepthroat it's good to see others on this board who are so well-versed on this subject and who know a bit about Ayahuasca and not just dismissing it as some hippie trend.  However, as far as I can tell so far, I am the only one who has actually TRIED it, 8 times; as well as re-connected with that trance-like state 5 or 6 times while on psilocybin.  And although I haven't done hardcore drugs as much as some of you here {100 acid trips??  wow.......} I can for sure say that this was the pinnacle, the absolute top of all attempts at soul-searching and good vibrations I have ever had by a long shot, and as I mentioned above at least 100 times more powerful than psilocybin.

      Must disagree however that's it's simply DMT;  if that were the case, why would they mix in the other ingredients?  And why have people who have done  only the DMT aspect of this potion not ended up in the same place mentally as the people who do the whole Ayahuasca brew?  Although I have never done it by itself, I understand {from Joe Rogan, Terrance McKenna  and others I have read} that a DMT buzz only lasts for 30 minutes and is not as intense;  Ayahuasca lasts 4-5 hours and has 6 or 7 ingredients from the forest included; I am assuming they also play a part in the effects incurred.


 Agreed with the posts above also; If people can get to the same state mentally by just doing meditation or controlled breath work or any other form of non-drug therapy, that's fantastic, and I am sure monks from many different religions do just that very often.  I myself could never concentrate enough to get into a Nirvana-like state like that and in fact the only attempts I ever had at meditation were never too long, my mind strays too much to attain enlightenment just by remaining in a meditative state.

[guydesavoy]

I know some will focus on the chemical side of the equation, but I'm sure there is much more going on in the jungle. Environment, shaman vibes etc... Not to mention the possibility of a 'secret' ingredient or recipe.

As for the meditation, my view (and that's all it is) is that after one has experienced that initial breakthrough, it might be more beneficial to just take that on board, as it were, and continue one's development in other less taxing directions. There is , after all, a risk that repeating it over and over is in itself some form of addiction (or at least a 'quest' for a high in another guise)  rather than a true therapy designed to advance personal growth.

Then again, personal growth is just that. It's personal.

[JaiDee]

(guydesavoy @ Mar. 15 2010,20:29) I'm sure there is much more going on in the jungle. Environment, shaman vibes etc...

yes, you can't drink this brew in an apartment in Toledo and have the same effect, so I am told.

Nor would I try. The shamans are there to help and guide you and also help you out if you freak out!!  which many people in my camp did; and it should be noted that many people in my course, about 25 all told, refused to drink the brew after 2 or 3 sessions...it was just too intense and scary for them. They had to stay for the whole course but just refused to drink; I, of course, did all 8 sessions

 

''after one has experienced that initial breakthrough,''

In meditation, I think that is the key.....and I wish I had the mind-power to get to that point at least once.  I think if I did I would enjoy doing that, and I have lots of free time so why not??

Reading this thread has opened MY eyes as well; I think I will take a few more stabs at meditation and see where it leads.

[pacman]

I went to a meditation class every week for several years. It was nothing like your Peru adventure but it did have a profound effect on me.

I am torn as to whether to post this in the Dreams thread or here but as the subject of meditation was mentioned here, this will do.

After many months during which I really struggled with meditating, I very slowly found my meditating time change.

I remember the first night when after an agonising wait, I snuck a look at my watch to see how much longer I had to go before the 2 hours were up.

Imagine my horror when I saw I had been sitting there with my eyes shut for 2 minutes. I was sure half an hour had passed.

I arrived at a point where I could self induce a trance like state & sit very still, barely breathing for several hours & needed 10 minutes recovery time when the session was over.

But my biggest breakthrough was reconnecting to my dreams. I hadn't remembered a dream in so long that I was adamant to anyone who asked that I simply didn't dream. I hadn't remembered a dream in 20 years.

One night I was really enjoying an intense dream I was having but the sun had started coming up. I must have forgotten to close the curtains. I lay there infuriated that I had to get up & close the bloody thing. I fought getting out of bed but in the end I had to get up & close the curtain because the light was burning into my brain.

Holding my hands over my eyes to stop the intense light I begrudgingly rolled over to get out of bed. As I went to swing my leg out of bed, I woke myself up. It was the middle of the night & my bedroom was pitch black.

I have seen this light several times since but I stopped going to meditation a year ago & now I don't remember my dreams. What does it all mean?

By the way, I told my meditation master about it & all she did was grin.

[guydesavoy]

Whatever anybody says, only you can interpret that dream paccie.  

But seeing a bright light does seem very interesting...

[Socrates999]

JD-

Gotta agree with you that the environment is critical to the experience. Checkout "Altered States", with William Hurt. Very parallel to your experience. From Ebert's 3.5 star review of this 30 year old film ...

"In Altered States, William Hurt plays a Harvard scientist named Jessup who takes such an experiment one step further, by ingesting a drug made from the sacred hallucinatory mushrooms of a primitive tribe. The strange thing about these mushrooms, Hurt observes in an easily missed line of dialogue in the movie, is that they give everyone who takes them the same hallucinatory vision. Perhaps it is our cellular memory of creation: There is chaos, and then a ball of light, and then the light turns into a crack, and the crack opens onto Nothing, and that is all there was and all there will be, except for life, which has its only existence in the mind."

Interesting that many users report "alien" contact.

DMT is rapidly metabolized by enzymes in the body. The other plants added to the mix provide the inhibitors of these enzymes, allowing the DMT to circulate longer. Not only does the experience last longer, but there is selective uptake of the drug by the brain, so a longer exposure leads to much higher concentrations in brain tissue, so, not only is the experience longer, but it is also deeper.

[JaiDee]

(Socrates999 @ Mar. 16 2010,00:17) DMT is rapidly metabolized by enzymes in the body. The other plants added to the mix provide the inhibitors of these enzymes, allowing the DMT to circulate longer. Not only does the experience last longer, but there is selective uptake of the drug by the brain, so a longer exposure leads to much higher concentrations in brain tissue, so, not only is the experience longer, but it is also deeper.

I remember reading all this type of stuff when I was studying this subject before and after camp, and it's great to see that people HERE would be so well-versed on the subject as well.  Again, I thought by posting on this I would get scorn or at the very least be misunderstood; but not surprisingly there are open-minded people who read here {ladyboy lovers by definition are generally more open-minded than the general population I would guess} and have as much or more to share on this subject as I do.

    Funny, when I travel I still get mostly head-shakers when I bring up Ayahuasca, as in "huh?"  I'd guess that about 90% of the people I mention it to have never heard of the stuff and frankly neither did I until 2008; but as the word spreads we all may read more and more reports and stories such as I posted, as more and more people make their way down to the amazon to try this stuff out.

[Ladyboy_Floyd]

Gentlemen,

Man, you guys are DEEP! All kidding aside, I read this entire thread and have been impressed with the erudition dsiplayed here.

My bona fides - I took 100+ acid trips and many more mushroom trips, plus a couple of peyote trips. Gave it up when I learned to enjoy reality better than hallucinations.

Lysergic acid diethelamide is a "neurotransmitter mimic." That means it gets in the synapses and picks up messages but (may) deliver them to the wrong place(s). That explains the old "I can smell the colors, man!" comments from the Tripping Hippies.

This Ayahuasca sounds similar, but different. I'm just so glad there weren't re-uptake inhibitors with any of my LSD - couldn't have handled a 3-day acid trip!

BTW (should this be on the "albums" thread?), listen to Chicago's ( ! ) "25 or 6 to 4." It's one of the best depictions of an acid trip I've ever heard...

[JaiDee]

(Ladyboy_Floyd @ Mar. 16 2010,09:15) BTW (should this be on the "albums" thread?), listen to Chicago's ( ! ) "25 or 6 to 4."  It's one of the best depictions of an acid trip I've ever heard...

Great song!! Truth be told I always thought it was just about a guy who was an insomniac and couldn't get to sleep LOL


once again, the things a person can learn just by reading TLBF's, eh??

Before this thread started who would ever guess that so many people who read here would have had an interest in trying mind-altering substances at some point of their life? It's an eye-opening thread, and I am learning more the longer it stays alive.

I now wonder how many LBF readers are regular weed-smokers, AKA potheads??

[deepthroat]

I'm guessing that number is probably low, but I could be very wrong... when I smoked dope, it gave me the perfect reason to do absolutely nothing.

I'd be surprised to find that many pot heads find the time to get travel to LOS, but like I said, you all might really surprise me...

[Torurot]

>> Ayahuasca lasts 4-5 hours and has 6 or 7 ingredients from the forest included; I am assuming they also play a part in the effects incurred.>>

On a slightly different tack, how much experimenting over what time scale did the Jungle guys do get the mix as it now is??. Generations??