When you are ready to explore....

[strocube]

Thanks, JaiDee. I've booked marked the Blue Morpho site.
I've got family in South America that are rather hurt that I've let so many years go by without visiting, so who knows, they may get a visit from me on my way to Peru.
You sparked my interest in something that I've had "on the back burner" for quite a few years.
Cheers,
-J

[deepthroat]

(JaiDee @ Mar. 14 2010,00:37) For deepthroat, I completely understand your skepticism, trust me. You come from the acid age and enjoyed Pink Floyd shows and probably tripped out a buncha times and think that this is just an extension of that; I thought that  as well before I tried it, but I can assure you now that this is MUCH more, and totally different from just a typical drug trip-out.  This makes you see yourself in a whole different way, and deal with deep-seated problems which you may have been avoiding or hiding from for years and years, as well as appreciate the natural beauty around you more than ever. Unless you have tried it it's hard to just put it into the LSD/Mushroom catagory just because they add DMT-chacruna leaves into the mix; that is only about 25% of the concotion anyway, the actual power comes from the Ayahuasca vine itself.

LSD may do that also but I don't think in the same way; I can't be sure because I only tried it a handful of times in college and it wasn't for me.

Ummm.... you didn't really read my post closely, did you?

[JaiDee]

sure I did...you basically said I took an acid-like substance but in a controlled environment. and then you said this;

''But, ultimately, it's still not a lot different from your garden variety LSD, mescaline, or psilocybin. It's merely the setting and the support that's different''

  I disagreed and I told you why; did I miss something?

[deepthroat]

Most of my comments were focused on the fact that what you experienced is EXACTLY THE SAME as what is available here in America from some of the underground therapists that use these drugs for psychotherapy. How/why you focused on Pink Floyd and garden variety acid trips to decide that I'm a skeptic... it just seems you didn't read the totality of my comments. Overall I was supporting your comments, but trying to point out that these experiences and therapies don't require a trip to the Amazon, or require the use of a psychoactive compound found only in the amazon. The same exact results are being achieved right here in North America, using much more readily obtained chemicals. In fact, a lot of this is going on in remote lodges/cabins in the redwood forests of california. And therapists are saying the same things - they pinpoint and move aside roadblocks the patient has had since childhood in a single session (even though the same patient has spent 5 or 10 years in normal therapy and never moved the roadblock an inch).

Did none of that really appear in my earlier comments?

[JaiDee]

Now that you clarified your comments I understand better, thanks ...... but I have to politely disagree that some drugs found in America can have the same results as Aya, especially chemicals made with ingredients found in things like LSD. Mushrooms, maybe, because they are natural ..... but as I have said, in my opinion the results gained from Ayahuasca far surpass whatever can be gained from sessions with mushrooms, in a clinical setting or not. It's just better, stronger, and helps with insights into the soul better than anything to be found here.

But I hope you are correct.....I know people who have gone to breathwork therapy courses in New Mexico and I have another female friend who lives near Sedona and often does sweat lodge work [we actually met at Blue Morpho]. If these things or clinical drug work in a professional setting work for people and they don't need to go to the amazon, that's great news for them; but I think now that I have been there and done Aya anything else now would be a step or 2 backwards; for me anyway.

[PigDogg]

(JaiDee @ Mar. 13 2010,10:45)      This stuff sounds like nonsense to a lot of you and I can't blame you,

I've been involved with lots of groups that suburbanites would call cults and all kinds of relatively mainstream trainings, new age healing modalities, and tantric sex groups.  Mostly positive experiences.

An ex-girlfriend also went to the Amazona to a similar place as JD and said it was an amazing experience.  Gotta admit it scares me to be out of control and also really hate vomiting so I don't think I'll be there in 2010.

Perhaps some day when I'm going for extreme growth again.   This is not a weekend at Kripalu, Omega, Harbin, BigSur, Sedona................  

Rather it's the real deal.

[JaiDee]

(PigDogg @ Mar. 14 2010,12:01) This is not a weekend at Kripalu, Omega, Harbin, BigSur, Sedona................  

Rather it's the real deal.

Exactly.  

This is like the peak; and just to re-iterate before this thread goes away forever, Ayahuasca is NOT a drug! Men do not make it like LSD or Ecstasy, it is a brew made from all-natural plants and tree bark, about 7 all told, and is all 100% natural; it is medicine, pure and simple, and the Chinese and amazonian tribes are among dozens of cultures from around the globe who have been making cures with plants similar to these for thousands of years.

My friend  lives near Sedona and says that is like the epicenter of all new-agish stuff in north america; but she was blown away by her experience in Peru; she just couldn't believe what the Ayahuasca did for her and couldn't wait to get back to Sedona and report it to all her hippie friends.

 I can't wait to go back there myself, I am thinking this summer.    

[guydesavoy]

That's interesting. The return. After reading of some experiences here and elsewhere I have wondered. If you can get it out of your 'system' the 1st time, what is the benefit of doing it again ?

It seems a pretty heavy (or)deal to me, so I reckon once would be enough.

[JaiDee]

(guydesavoy @ Mar. 14 2010,20:01) If you can get it out of your 'system' the 1st time, what is the benefit of doing it again ?

It seems a pretty heavy (or)deal to me

It is VERY heavy and intense, trust me.....but as my new friend Louie once told me, every time he goes back ''it is like peeling another layer off the onion'';  and he has been there 7 times now and was once addicted to painkillers and pretty much over the edge. But not anymore.


 I want to go back because I liked Peru, I enjoy travelling to cool places, and would like to experience the 5 or 6 nights of pure bliss I had; you literally can not put a price tag on the things I felt and experienced on those nights.  I also want to shoot down to Bolivia for a few days or a week; never been there and I want to see La Paz before it dissappears due to global warming.

[TTChang]

(JaiDee @ Mar. 13 2010,22:13) I'm pretty surprised at the {mostly] positive feedback from this thread ......I figured there would be a lot more naysayers.

 

Not surprised at all - we naysayers were redirected to another thread in your first post.    Ok, I admit coming back for a furtive read - and I'll stick with Pentire on this one!

[JaiDee]

(TTChang @ Mar. 14 2010,22:32) Not surprised at all - we naysayers were redirected to another thread in your first post.

Excellent, that is why I put the warning first!

     Something like this is definately not for everyone, that's for sure....... and especially people who read this message board in particular, who are just discovering the joys of Thailand and ladyboys, etc.....it probably wouldn't appeal to most of 'em and that's completely understood. This is a ladyboy message board and the guys here SHOULD be going to hunt LB's and have fun in Asia, and I'm happy for everyone who has fun doing that; I certainly did for years and years.

   But I had done that type of stuff a LOT for 10 years before I took this trip, and I was ready for some new type of adventure by 2008.  Who knows, maybe a few people here will be also; Fleeing seems to be fed up with mongering already and I am sure there are many others, and it seems as though Strocube may have perhaps been convinced to head down there.  As I said early on, if this story makes even one reader out of 50 go down to the Amazon and try this out I will feel it was well worth posting about it.

[deepthroat]

(JaiDee @ Mar. 14 2010,19:19) Ayahuasca is NOT a drug! Men do not make it like LSD or Ecstasy, it is a brew made from all-natural plants and tree bark, about 7 all told, and is all 100% natural; it is medicine, pure and simple, and the Chinese and amazonian tribes are among dozens of cultures from around the globe who have been making cures with plants similar to these for thousands of years.

Not to rain on your parade Jai Dee (I think it's wonderful if you find something that helps you to peel back the layers and truly take a deep look at yourself and your life) but the reality is that yes, this is a drug. And just like LSD, it's "made by men". In fact, LSD is synthesized from lysergic acid derived from ergot, a grain fungus that typically grows on rye. Neither of these compounds are found naturally, they have to be processed (by men) from natural ingredients in order to become psychoactive compounds. But they ARE compounds, and they are "made by men". Admittedly, it does take a little more work to make LSD and the guys in the Amazon would be hard-pressed to throw together a batch if they wanted to, but underneath all this, it is the same thing but with much more cultural and ceremonial significance attached.

Peyote and psilocybin are probably the two closest relatives to this, in terms of the way they've been used by North American cultures for ceremony and "rites of passage".

LSD is a medicine, as is peyote or mescaline or psilocybin, depending on the setting and culture.

Again, not to disparage your experience. It sounds fantastic and I'm glad that you got what you were seeking.

[JaiDee]

(deepthroat @ Mar. 15 2010,03:13) Peyote and psilocybin are probably the two closest relatives to this

I'd agree with that..... have never done Peyote {but would if I could get it} but I like psilocybin a lot, it has expanded my views of this world many many times and I still believe it is a very harmless fungus which should be used by more people to explore the outer limits of their psyche.

I know what you are saying, and I do get it.....I guess my comparisons to things like Chinese herbs and the like as traditional medicines were to further enhance the fact that it's just a bunch of leaves and bark and root, nothing chemically enhanced and not made in a lab, etc......

You seem to be experienced or at least very well-read in these topics, have you ever tried Aya?  Would you ever want to?

[Stewart]

I can't wait to go back there myself, I am thinking this summer.    

3 or 4 more trips and you will start to believe that the government crashed those planes into the twin towers and the CIA assassinated Kennedy!  

Where's paccie

[deepthroat]

Because of my own experiences with psychedelics in the 70's and 80's, I've always been very interested in the subject. I've also done a lot of soul searching and seeking (along with counseling) in the 90's and 00's and believe I have an understanding of the subject and the work. I have deep respect for these sorts of practices, but my own history with alcohol and other drugs prohibits me from using anything like that therapeutically unless it's absolutely unavoidable. For instance, if I need open-heart surgery, I'll of course allow the doctor to use anesthesia and prescribe carefully monitored pain medication after the surgery - to do otherwise would throw my body into shock and kill me. But other than those very obvious situations, I cannot take the risk of re-awakening my addiction by using any mind or mood altering chemicals, even if only for the therapeutic effect in a controlled situation such as what you've described. Think of it as an allergy - I'm deeply allergic to any chemicals that alter my mood, and I eventually break out in handcuffs.

I don't want to threadjack this and make it about addiction and recovery. I restrict myself to coffee and whores (both mind and mood altering, but I can live with that!) and restrict my spiritual journey to anipi ceremony (sweat lodge) and Marillion concerts, both of which bring me in touch with my "higher power".