Israel

[guydesavoy]

(travis bickle @ Jun. 11 2010,00:11)

(guydesavoy @ Jun. 10 2010,22:12) and your answer to post 342 is.....?

Rachel corries murder?      Its proven beyond  all reasonable doubt,

Why dont you investigate these things yourself

Sorry tb you're simply wrong again.. Let's stick to facts and not opinions, however strongly they are held. There has been no criminal trial leading to proof beyond reasonable doubt.

There is currently a civil trial :

In the damages suit filed by the Corrie family it is stated that no thorough and objective investigation was held into the death, which the family maintains occurred either because of intent or the bulldozer driver's negligence. The plaintiffs also maintain that the recording documenting the incident was deleted.

AAP
Not even the Corrie family makes statements as silly as yours. Not even her family says it was murder proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Update: This portion of the trial, with witnesses for the Corrie family, ended on March 24th. The State has been granted 30 days to submit a list of witnesses and their affidavits.
The next trial date is currently set for September 5, 2010.

Corrie supporters website.
The civil trial hasn't even finished.

Perhaps you should a) get informed yourself; b) learn the difference between 'fact' and 'opinion' ; c) learn the difference between 'evidence' and opinion or supposition ;

and d) don't assume that just because someone points out obvious flaws in your approach that this means they are on the 'other' side or any side for that matter.

[Lefty]

(azza33 @ Jun. 11 2010,06:30) Now I am curious and well aware it's off topic, but i'm actually interested to see if your blind hatred for the us clouds your perceptions of the other world issues?

To say Travis has a blind hatred for the US is completely untrue. I know him. I've sat and talked with him on a myriad of topics. Looked him in the eye while doing so. Your statement is completely without merit or foundation.

[Lefty]

(Stewart @ Jun. 11 2010,08:58)

(travis bickle @ Jun. 10 2010,07:10)

(azza33 @ Jun. 10 2010,06:47) Tb - I'm not going to indulge you & I suspect that irks you somewhat as you are not then allowed to rebuff. What a bastard, I know :  harhar:

what a cop out azza...you do not have the courage of your convictions.So I must presume that even you,a wannabee yank,could not think of even 1 positive aspect of American foreign policy....  

Errrrrrr...........

World War 1?

World War 2?

Continued pressure on the USSR that eventually led to the fall of the Berlin Wall, and most countries in Eastern Europe being free of tyranny?

Bosnia when the rest of Europe sat back and did nothing

Haiti after the recent earthquake?

Darfur? oooops, the US has NOT got involved there......so I am sure you will criticise them for NOT getting involved in this case?

Hmmmmmmm......I don't see a lot of oil in most of those places

The world is not black and white like you seem to see it.......is is all different shades of grey.

I would not include WWI on your list. IMO, we were drug into that war under false pretenses and had no business or justification in being there, other than to bail out the Brits. Woodrow Wilson, burn in hell you piece of shit sorry excuse for a president.

We'd have to bail out England again about 20 some years later. The 2nd time it was justified since Hitler declared war on the US after we declared war on those godless heathen Japs.

Good thing too, or else the limeys would all be speaking German and goose stepping from Hyde Park Corner to Piccadilly Circus still today.

[f0xxee]

(guydesavoy @ Jun. 11 2010,09:51)

In the damages suit filed by the Corrie family it is stated that no thorough and objective investigation was held into the death, which the family maintains occurred either because of intent or the bulldozer driver's negligence. The plaintiffs also maintain that the recording documenting the incident was deleted.

AAP

Update: This portion of the trial, with witnesses for the Corrie family, ended on March 24th. The State has been granted 30 days to submit a list of witnesses and their affidavits.
The next trial date is currently set for September 5, 2010.

Corrie supporters website.
The civil trial hasn't even finished.

Guy cut and pa-aste! I saw him! Guy cut and pa-aste!

Pure and indefiensible proof of left wing tendencies sir!

Shame shame shame for daring to cut and paste!

[guydesavoy]

a quote takes more time than a cut&paste job..you have to actually think


Now fuck off you commie bastard

[Guest]

(Stewart @ Jun. 11 2010,08:58)

(travis bickle @ Jun. 10 2010,07:10)

(azza33 @ Jun. 10 2010,06:47) Tb - I'm not going to indulge you & I suspect that irks you somewhat as you are not then allowed to rebuff. What a bastard, I know :  harhar:

what a cop out azza...you do not have the courage of your convictions.So I must presume that even you,a wannabee yank,could not think of even 1 positive aspect of American foreign policy....  

Errrrrrr...........

World War 1?

World War 2?

Continued pressure on the USSR that eventually led to the fall of the Berlin Wall, and most countries in Eastern Europe being free of tyranny?

Bosnia when the rest of Europe sat back and did nothing

Haiti after the recent earthquake?

Darfur? oooops, the US has NOT got involved there......so I am sure you will criticise them for NOT getting involved in this case?

Hmmmmmmm......I don't see a lot of oil in most of those places

The world is not black and white like you seem to see it.......is is all different shades of grey.

US foreign policy has little or nothing to do with the fall of the berlin wall.Gorbachov had more to do with that than anything.It caught the US Intelligence agencies completely by surprise.
Solidarity in Poland had more to do with the fall of Communism than any American foreign policy.

American foreign policy in Bosnia was very good,tho'the U.N were involved from the get go,but proved ineffective.The bombing of Belgrade by the Americans may prove to be a huge mistake in the long term,friends come and go,enemies mount up.

Darfur? poor black people with no money,no strategic value and more importantly no oil......why would that interest America?

Haiti...why dont you look at the causes of their poverty....namely French and Us exorbitant bank loans...Americas dumping of subsidised staple foods on them etc...as you said many shades of grey

[Guest]

(guydesavoy @ Jun. 11 2010,09:51)

(travis bickle @ Jun. 11 2010,00:11)

(guydesavoy @ Jun. 10 2010,22:12) and your answer to post 342 is.....?

Rachel corries murder?      Its proven beyond  all reasonable doubt,

Why dont you investigate these things yourself

Sorry tb you're simply wrong again.. Let's stick to facts and not opinions, however strongly they are held. There has been no criminal trial leading to proof beyond reasonable doubt.

There is currently a civil trial :

In the damages suit filed by the Corrie family it is stated that no thorough and objective investigation was held into the death, which the family maintains occurred either because of intent or the bulldozer driver's negligence. The plaintiffs also maintain that the recording documenting the incident was deleted.

AAP
Not even the Corrie family makes statements as silly as yours. Not even her family says it was murder proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Update: This portion of the trial, with witnesses for the Corrie family, ended on March 24th. The State has been granted 30 days to submit a list of witnesses and their affidavits.
The next trial date is currently set for September 5, 2010.

Corrie supporters website.
The civil trial hasn't even finished.

Perhaps you should a) get informed yourself; b) learn the difference between 'fact' and 'opinion' ; c) learn the difference between 'evidence' and opinion or supposition ;

and d) don't assume that just because someone points out obvious flaws in your approach that this means they are on the 'other' side or any side for that matter.

I said beyond all REASONABLE doubt...I dont expect you to be reaonable however.

You had no idea who Rachel Corrie was (like a lot of ill-informed posters) before I told you.Then you suggested she was a CIA plant-shame on you!.

Now you know....now google Tom hurndall,and investigate his death,and tell me he wasn't murdered in cold blood also.

I suppose you think OJ was innocent also,when he was obviously guilty beyond any reasonable doubt .

[Tomcat]

Intermisson

Actually the cut and paste rant was aimed at Harry Lime who plasterd two pages of rubbish from some newspaper

Obviously one has to cut and paste others comments and links to other articles

Anyway let battle re commence gentleman...

[azza33]

Lol post 426 tb- you were predictable  

And as you already stated your field of knowledge is really only strong on the middle east.
Given your answers in post 426 I would agree with your self assessment  

[guydesavoy]

tb I'm guessing you're not a native speaker of English.

You said murder.. 'proven beyond reasonable doubt'. That statement speaks for itself for all to see, so please don't be so disingenuous as to pretend you meant something else.

This is clearly not the case. Please stick to facts not opinions. It has only taken me 5 mins of searching to find that Corrie's group is Palestinian led and has involved itself with hamas and other terrorist groups. Enough said. And although her death was tragic, as any death is, you continue to go around saying it was murder. That's an opinion. Not fact, not proven at all, be it beyond reasonable doubt or even on the balance of probabilities.

Anyone can look on the internet and get information. I guess the trick is being able to interpret such information with a critical unbiased eye. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, like anyone else. But don't confuse that with fact. Otherwise you are not very useful to anyone other than as a back-slapper for fellow travellers.


oh btw the OJ reference is pretty childish  

[azza33]

(Lefty @ Jun. 11 2010,12:39)

(azza33 @ Jun. 11 2010,06:30) Now I am curious and well aware it's off topic, but i'm actually interested to see if your blind hatred for the us clouds your perceptions of the other world issues?

To say Travis has a blind hatred for the US is completely untrue. I know him. I've sat and talked with him on a myriad of topics. Looked him in the eye while doing so. Your statement is completely without merit or foundation.

Ok lefty you may have me on a technicality, but I did specifically mention the govt. In other posts when I wasn't so lazy.

[Tomcat]

The reason im pro Israel is not that im so in love with the Jews but that the Islamists are real grave danger and anyone who is an enemy of them is a friend of mine

I notice in London now that the local Taliban are spraying over advertize hoardings that have pics of Woman in Bikinis. Now they using tar, Why the fuck the EU ever let these scumbags in is beyond me.

Its a war and i know where i am sitting ,and its not on the fence

[f0xxee]

(Tomcat @ Jun. 11 2010,17:19) The reason im pro Israel is not that im so in love with the Jews but that the Islamists are real grave danger and anyone who is an enemy of them is a friend of mine

I notice in London now that the local Taliban are spraying over advertize hoardings that have pics of Woman in Bikinis. Now they using tar, Why the fuck the EU ever let these scumbags in is beyond me.  

Its a war and i know where i am sitting ,and its not on the fence

Hi TC...

Fairt enough too. A fair and reasonable assessment of what you see as dangerous times ahead.


Sometimes these declarations of personal belief do make a persons perspective more understandable.

[guydesavoy]

It's the PC brigade that feed the BNP in the UK and National Front in France. What would they do if anyone walked down the main street of Jeddah sucking on a large can of tennants ?

[Torurot]

This is part of a larger article.


If you can't handle the length WHY are you even in this thread??. Go look at picture threads.


No Regrets
Obama, the ADC and the Gaza Flotilla
http://counterpunch.org/loewenstein06102010.html
By JENNIFER LOEWENSTEIN June 10, 2010
MV Rachel Corrie, a boat named after the twenty-three year old American activist crushed to death by an armored D-9 Caterpillar Bulldozer on March 16th 2003 as she attempted to prevent it from demolishing another Palestinian home. (More than 17,000 people from Rafah, Gaza had been made refugees twice and thrice over as a result of Israel€™s policy of demolishing homes along the Philadelphi Corridor near the Egyptian border). Corrie wore a blaze orange vest and carried an orange bullhorn when the driver of the bulldozer trapped her under a mound of dirt and drove over her body twice, breaking her back shortly before she died.

Unsurprisingly the US has yet to insist that an independent investigation into Rachel Corrie€™s death take place. Neither has the US approved even the least critical of the independent investigations into Israel€™s attack on Gaza in December-January 2008-9, the Goldstone Report. €˜Operation Cast Lead€™ was the very embodiment of the €˜supreme international crime€™ of aggression and should have led to the arrest and incarceration of its perpetrators for war crimes at the International Court of Justice at the Hague; but of course, it did not. Hence, it should come as no surprise that US representatives stood alone again at the United Nations last week just after the deadly raid on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, arguing that Israel should be allowed to investigate its latest crime of aggression and murder all by itself.

Arab and Muslim-Americans are hardly surprised that state terror directed against their people here or overseas requires no special attention or concern within any US administration. Obama€™s insult to the ADC occurred exactly one year after his widely acclaimed speech in Cairo, Egypt in which he promised a change in US foreign policy toward Middle East and Islamic nations.

What distinguishes the Obama administration€™s Middle East foreign policy from that of the Bush administration and those before it is the rhetoric in which its fundamental continuity is enveloped. This is especially disappointing €“and dangerous€”for anyone who hoped that non-violent solutions and a basic adherence to international law would finally prevail.

Like its US patron, Israel continues to promote state-of-the art-global violence €“ even when that means executing citizens of US-allied nations for resisting its spiral into madness. When US politicians, pundits and media spokespeople congratulate Israel and its special Naval Commando units for assaulting a NATO partner€™s ship carrying 700 peace activists tired and ashamed of the persistent international silence over the sadistic destruction of the land, culture and identity of the Palestinians, Arab-Americans are not the only group of people who should be both sickened and aghast.

Jennifer Loewenstein is a Faculty Associate of Middle East Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. She can be reached at [email protected]