Israel

[f0xxee]

I am saying that Hecate appears in Macbeth to the three witches....as they stirred an evil brew creating mischief.

Enough said?

[Bumpa STIKKA]

Wot... so I'm a shit stirrir?

[f0xxee]

(Bumpa STIKKA @ Jun. 08 2010,14:23) Wot... so I'm a shit stirrir?

Oh absolutely! (and you love it!)

[guydesavoy]

You're so cynical foxxee

[Torurot]

Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head and back at close range
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world....results
Exclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal

[Torurot]

So long as Israel has 110% US support it can behave ANY way it likes. Change US support and all bets are off. There's a quick solution...


Stewarts already read this one:

The Limits of Public Opinion: Arabs, Israelis and the Strategic Balance
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly....balance

....Israel€™s actions have generated shifts in public opinion and diplomacy regionally and globally. The Israelis are calculating that these actions will not generate a long-term shift in the strategic posture of the Arab world. If they are wrong about this, recent actions will have been a significant strategic error. If they are right, then this is simply another passing incident. In the end, the profound divisions in the Arab world both protect Israel and make diplomatic solutions to its challenge almost impossible €” you don€™t need to fight forces that are so divided, but it is very difficult to negotiate comprehensively with a group that lacks anything approaching a unified voice.

[Tomcat]

(Torurot @ Jun. 08 2010,18:11) Exclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal

They got what they wanted didnt they .. martyrdom

Actually Hamas prefer confrontation othewise their own cause would flop
So Hamas got the right result. Hamas like things the way they are and do not want peace as they would all be out of a job .

I doubt if anyone wants peace. Politicians , Lobbyists, Conspiracy theorists Fanatics and other loonies are all in on this self perpetuating gravy train for one reason or another

The Arabs can blame all their ills on the Jews at the same time

[f0xxee]

(Tomcat @ Jun. 08 2010,18:56) So Hamas got the right result. Hamas like things the way they are and do not want peace as they would all be out of a job .

I doubt if anyone wants peace. Politicians , Lobbyists, Conspiracy theorists   Fanatics and other loonies are all in on this self perpetuating gravy train for one reason or another

I agree. The net can be cast wider to US, Euro, Russian and Chinese defence contractors and everyone else who makes a buck out of the misery of the plebs on the ground.

[Tomcat]

The Arabs do not want peace.. If the Israel problem was solved most of the Dictators would have to find another focal point for the growing un employed that they have to endure , otherwise they could find their own head in the noose

Distraction being the main word.

[guydesavoy]

Truth is indeed stranger than fiction

[thegame925]

I have spent many years working for Arabs from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman etc and spent time in those places plus Syria, Jordan, the UAR etc.

I will concede that the majority of Arabs for whom I have worked and with whom I have socialized were educated in the best universities in America, England or France (or all three, plus a few more)

I will also concede that the great majority of Arabs with whom I have been involved were well read, sophisticated, well-travelled and most would have a drink in private in their own country and in public when abroad €“ so I have not been mixing with religious fundamentalists.

Although of I am of Italian and originally brought up in a reasonably religious catholic household, I am not religious and I look more Jewish than Italian (according to Stogie and others).

I have an instinctive gut reaction against fundamentalism whether from ultra-religious Muslims, Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Christians.

I also meet a great many Jews, albeit mainly American and British, but also a few from Israel. Most of the ones I come in contact with are working with the Arabs with whom I work and they are working harmoniously €“ not just because it is business, but because they know that the peace in the Middle East will benefit them all.

Two topics of a political nature always, invariably, come up:

The Arabs (and the Jews) don€™t understand , if there are so many people of the Jewish faith or ancestry working in TV, Hollywood, public relations, advertising etc., why is Israel so awful at PR and presentation €“ and no one can give a sensible answer.

The Jews don€™t understand why Tel Aviv has gone from a shanty town to a modern city in the last 50+ years and the Israeli desert has bloomed whilst Gaza is €œA refugee camp€ - and the wise Arabs will respond that it suits the Arab politicians to play politics with the Palestinians.

The €œWorldly Arabs€ admit it has suited the various Arab countries to use the Palestinians as pawns in the geopolitical  arena.

My observations:

€¢ The Jewish Fundamentalists do not believe in the State of Israel

€¢ Christian Fundamentalists want the Jews in Israel

€¢ The Muslim Fundamentalists want the status quo to remain so    that they have an excuse for their actions.

€¢ The problem is a problem of poverty more than religious beliefs.

€¢ The majority of Palestinians  who not living in Gaza or The West Bank thrive in commerce and academia and work well with all types of people including Jews.

€¢ Many of the Palestinian Political Leadership have been shown to be corrupt and it is true that they have €œnever missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity€ (for peace).

€¢ The current Israeli Government is an unmitigated (the result of an insane voting system and the support of an influx of right-wing , ex- Russians who are, or who claim to be, Jewish).

The best hope is that American Jews (of a liberal persuasion) will put pressure on the American Administration to put pressure on the Israeli Government €“ and the time is near when that is a very real possibility.

The danger comes from the Christian Right-wing who support the current Israeli Government's hard-line.

There are wrongs on both sides €“ but the Arab Muslim population is growing at a faster rate than the Israeli Jewish population and the (sensible) Israeli€™s know it.

There are solutions which have almost been agreed a number of times €“ I sense that the time is coming when they will be implemented €“ whether a two state solution will result in harmonious relationships is an entirely different matter and it will take time, patience, education and a viable Palestinian economy for there to be any hope of a lasting and workable relationship.

One thing is certain, this argument has been going on for many years and has consumed many forests worth of paper €“ we are not going to solve the problem here.

[thegame925]

As an aside, and more pertinent to this Forum, there are Muslim Arab LBs and Israeli Jewish LBs continually working as Escorts in the P4P market in London and the UK Provinces.

I know that there are at least a couple from each group who will do duos together.

Maybe they should go to the UN and start the Peace Process properly; they all look prettier than George Mitchell or any of the prominent players in the Official Peace Process.

[guydesavoy]

(thegame925 @ Jun. 08 2010,22:49) My observations:


€¢ The problem is a problem of poverty more than religious beliefs.

Indeed. Certain powers will always use religion or ideology as a crutch, and it works up to a point, and for a certain, sometimes long, time. Same same Communism. Sooner or later the 'people' see through it when they realise that their lives are actually not getting any better.

Everyone wants the same thing. Freedom to choose and freedom to earn a decent living.

[BlueBallz]

The Game speaks a lot of sense here. It behooves The Arab world to keep up this conflict. If there were two states side by side whom could the Arabs blame for their repressive regimes and, relative, lack of prosperity. They (the tin pot dictators of the entire Arab world) would have many embarassing questions they would not have any answers for.

Palestine wasnt a nation in the true sense of the word before 1948. There was hardly anything there. After Israel got the UN Mandate they turned nothing into something.

If/when there is are two states and if there were relative peace, I bet Israel would be fairly prosperous and "Palestine" would be a relative shithole. I dont think it would be a stretch to say that corruption in a Palestinian state would make a fat Duvallier blush. Hell, its been happening in Gaza for years. Whose fault is that??? Of course its Israel and America's fault!!!!!! Its so simple even Helen Thomas can see that!!!

[Guest]

(BlueBallz @ Jun. 08 2010,23:14) The Game speaks a lot of sense here.  It behooves The Arab world to keep up this conflict.  If there were two states side by side whom could the Arabs blame for their repressive regimes and, relative, lack of prosperity.  They (the tin pot dictators of the entire Arab world) would have many embarassing questions they would not  have any answers for.

Palestine wasnt a nation in the true sense of the word before 1948.  There was hardly anything there.  After Israel got the UN Mandate they turned nothing into something.

If/when there is are two states and if there were relative peace, I bet Israel would be fairly prosperous and "Palestine" would be a relative shithole.  I dont think it would be a stretch to say that corruption in a Palestinian state would make a fat Duvallier blush.  Hell, its been happening in Gaza for years.  Whose fault is that???  Of course its Israel and America's fault!!!!!!  Its so simple even Helen Thomas can see that!!!

Does it not behove the Israeli world also to keep the coflict going ?

So,there was nothing there before the Jews arrived in 1948.?
Yes there was-the palestinians were there.

You and others like you are apologists for an evil apartheid regime.I'm sure if you ever took 1 week out of your life,and went to see how the Palestinians are treated in their own land,you would change your mind.

At the moment ,you are speaking from a position of ignorance.By the way,no one has mentioned Rachel Corrie,after which the Irish ship was named.Have you forgotten her already? better google her now you apologists...you wont hear about her on fox news

Tell me,are you apologists for Israel exclusively Americans ?