How did we get here?

[JaiDee]

Same as the other 2 conspiracy theories going on in The Fish Box right now, this one also has some staying power. Ask any elected higher-office official in the USA right now and they will tell you option 2, so don't believe it's so far-fetched; if they don't go to church on sunday and believe in some type of organized religion {Read; nonsense}, and profess that to their electorate, they would never get in to office in the first place.

Obama, McCain, Hillary, Sarah Palin, all the talking- head dopes on FOX news and proably CNN as well; my governer, both of my senators, 95% of The Philippine people as well as hundreds of millions of others around the world believe in option 2 while probably an equal number believe in option 1; so where do YOU stand?

I will start it off with science trumps superstitious garbage and fairy tales written 3000 years ago.

[Tomcat]

Paul Davies , the renowned Astro Physics master ,indeed wrote two very good books on this subject of why we are here and how .

1- the Goldilocks Enigma. Why the Universe is just right for life to evolve. A truly fantastic book and the follow up to " The Mind of God"

2- the other one is around 5 years old but was one of the first serious studies of Bio Genesis and Panspermia etc etc. I cant remember the name now...

both very highly  recommended Science books  for anyone looking for serious answers at a lay persons level of undertstanding.

[JaiDee]

Thanks TC, I will have to check those out.

If you think about it, Religion is the ultimate conspiracy theory; many different theories and idea's {Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc....}about how we all arrived here and the meaning of life, etc..... none of which can ultimately be proven, but which are propogated and advanced over the years by people who have ''heard'' that this crap is the truth so it must be!!

Same as JFK being killed by one guy, 9/11 being planned by a bunch of scumbag terrorists backed by one clown with big cash, never seeing a ghost or a UFO, etc ..... I will go with fact and provable science over fiction and stories any day.

[allstar88]

darwin

[katoeylover]

God!

[Tomcat]

Bertrand Russell , the Philosopher, was having Sunday tea with the Vicar of Oxford and some other local luminaries when Russell made the statement that he knew some Gentleman who believed that there was a Giant Teapot hiding behind Jupiter which had four saucers as moons

The Vicar then said " Some of these loonies will believe anything you know Bertrand , quite unbelievable dear fellow"

yes quite Vicar

[neogzim24]

God if you read and it makes you think deeper and search for answers then its right!!!!

neo

[Tomcat]

why dont you elaborate then

[BlueBallz]

You very well know JD that there are probably a lot of other choices in between. I really dont think intelligent religious people think that the Earth is really only 6,000 years old or that somebody from the Bible actually lived for 168 years. How about, "is everything completely random or is there some sort of intelligent design?".

[Tomcat]

There is no evidence for I Design, thats the problem. Of course we cannot know everything all at once.. i like Occams razor that states explanations should not be over elaborated for the sake of wishfull thinking ..

Every single piece of ID i have seen has been trounced by Scientists pretty quickly. Of course there are gaps in our Knowledge and the ID guys are just that,,,, the god of the gaps

and there are fewer gaps as each year passes

Of course the further we go back in time the argument gets tougher and Philosophy takes over . Most Scientists would tell you that the Universe is pointless and just ,,is,,.

[Tomcat]

(BlueBallz @ Oct. 23 2009,16:43) "is everything completely random

thats a good point BB

The biggest puzzle today, from what i read anway, without invoking a Diety, if? the Universe is running itself down from a state of low disorder...
and of that there is no debate.. the second law of thermodynamics

how did it get orderd in the first place...

[BlueBallz]

how did it all begin and where is it going? is it being "guided" by some "force. You know you might want to think about this: A gorilla is a smart creature and understands it environment but cannot begin to understand things in the world i.e how to build a bridge, how to fly a plane etc.. its kind of like Man not knowing or meant to know (perhaps we will in 500,000 years if we still exist) about the universe and galaxies around him. I think its the height of human arrogance to think that we can or are even meant to understand everything........

Also think about this one of the big things about religion is the afterlife. this theme has been around for ages even before the emergence of modern religion. Perhaps Man made up this concept just to make ourselves feel better. Like is this all there fucking is?? Who the hell knows. I have a distinct feeling i will see my father (who has passed) again. And its not from any deep religious conviction. I am not religious at all. Do I feel that way just to make myself feel better?? The alternative would really suck wouldnt it?

One of my favs movies is CONTACT. there was a big science v religion/faith theme. The "preacher" says to the scientist, after the scientist was breaking his balls about religion/faith, "Did you love your father?" Her father died when she was young and it left a big scar. She says, "Of course." his retort was, "PROVE IT" of course you cannot but you get my point??

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!

[JaiDee]

(BlueBallz @ Oct. 23 2009,16:43) You very well know that there are probably a lot of other choices in between.  

But the reason I only put 2 choices is because what I mentioned about politicians...and not only from this country but from almost every country ..... these people have their hands on nuclear weapons and yet they [claim to] believe that some guy with a long white beard sitting up in the clouds made everything in a week?  And if you are religious you have to be 100% into your religion or you are not faithful;  you can't say 'well ya, I believe in a God, but I also believe we were evolved from ape-like creatures millions of years ago' .....so in the context of FAITH, yes there are only 2 choices; rational people who study issues from both sides would look at this discussion more closely but Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc......anyone who has been voted into office believes in some version of the bible; and they cant waiver....they can't, they believe it all and that's scary. Because if they didn't they wouldn't get voted in, simple as that; not ONE admitted agnostic or atheist holds office in the USA, it's impossible to get elected without holding some type of religious views.



'how did it all begin and where is it going? '

  It started with single-cell organisms mating with other single-cell organisms over 500 million years ago; they created the first life forms and we all evolved from that, everything left on earth....we are all related, even to crabs and lobsters and giraffes which look nothing like us; we all came from the same source, early organisms which mated and spawned all life. Sure, we'd all like to think there is some sort of higher power guiding all the events here on this rock, but until we get proof {damn, that stupid  little word keeps tripping up anyone who believes in conspiracies!} I will stick with what science tells us.

[Tomcat]

(BlueBallz @ Oct. 23 2009,22:50)  I think its the height of human arrogance to think that we can or are even meant to understand everything........

I agree on that

my own views are  based on the current scientific thinking extrapolated or stretched to the limit in this case..in other words the best  Science based explanation/s on offer

Science cannot be definition be "correct or true" in a Philosophical sense as it is a moving body of knowledge and provides nothing more than that.  Of course there are other systems of knowledge like faith which is static and cannot move.

I quite like the Multi Verse Theory which is that there are an infinite amount of Universes so all that can exist... deos exist..we just happen to be in a Universe that is fit for life... but there are many /most that have no life.

When The Large Hadron collider gets fired up it may give some clues as to whether extra dimensions do in fact exist and give rise to these other Universes

[JaiDee]

But science teaches us more and more all the time ..... just think about how much more we know on this subject than we did 20, 30 or 90 years ago, when the Scopes monkey trials were going on; he the teacher who first dared to teach Darwins work to his students.

We will learn more all the time, stay tuned....