How to "fall in love"

[Tomcat]

(doug @ Sep. 17 2007,03:29) However, it's a good idea to bring over a nice gift every so often, especially if she's being good

Your message is more suitable for someone fostering a giant Gambian Pouch Rat than a human being.....

[stogie bear]

[stogie bear]

Good reply Doug... Some people are a bit sensitive and there's nothing wrong with talking in general terms, otherwise we'd spend too much time specifying exemptions, etc... although 'generally' I do think your "Guide to falling in love" is a non starter as in practice bargirls cannot be reliably trained to perform in this complicated way.

Realistically the only sensible targets for a long term relationship is with a ladyboy student from out of town who needs a place to stay in Bangkok while studying and who doesn't mind letting you roger her a couple of times a month for the priviidge of paying for her higher education!

[doug]

A lot of replies and questions, I'll try to answer them all in one post rather than multiple posts:

(stogie bear @ Sep. 17 2007,11:40) Frankly it's far, far easier, cheaper, more rewarding and a whole lot less stressful to find a non-bar ladyboy to shack up with.

Oh absolutely. But that's a relationship. What I'm talking about here is essentially a mai noi arrangement that keeps me out of the bar while at the same time giving me the "sex on call" option.

The reason I titled the post "how to 'fall in love'", was to point out the fact that "love" is usually not possible with someone FRESH out of the bar scene, and it's best to set up a buffer arrangement like this to protect yourself before you get more seriously involved with someone you meet in a bar.

(stogie bear @ Sep. 17 2007,11:40) Your best bet is just to skidaddle to Pattaya every other weekend and save all that time, effort and planning for shagging.

Like I said, I'm cheap, lazy, and hate the bar scene. The thought of Pattaya makes me break out in hives. I can't stand being treated like a walking wallet, and no amount of pussy or dick is going to entice me to put up with all the associated CRAP that goes with it on a regular basis.

(stogie bear @ Sep. 17 2007,11:40) Realistically the only sensible targets for a long term relationship is with a ladyboy student from out of town who needs a place to stay in Bangkok while studying and who doesn't mind letting you roger her a couple of times a month for the priviidge of paying for her higher education!

Very good idea! Unfortunately, not so easy to implement. Like most regular girls, "normal" ladyboys would be a bit insulted by a proposition like that.

No offense, but maybe you've been spending too much time in the bars (if that's even possible). Not every girl has a price, and the vast majority of Thai women and ladyboys are conservative, family-orientated, and shy.

Of course that still leaves thousands who are willing to play and who might find that arrangement to be a good deal, but just because there are so many doesn't make them easy to find, especially if you have to sort through the majority of girls who are much more conservative.

(anicon @ Sep. 18 2007,11:40)
...who once said "the best laid plans of mice & men"? .. i doubt in practice it would work in BKK; i mean reforming a LB bar girl.. like Stogie said, find someone who isn't working in a bar if you want your long term relationship otherwise you'll just be looking for a new convert every 6 months .... you're better off being labled "u butterfly" than put up with the headaches of financing a long term relationship.....

I think it was John Steinbeck who said that. Maybe.

It is a plan, and like all plans, once the war starts, all the plans go out the window. But that's not the point. The point is that creating a buffer between your "real" life and your "bar"/"mai-noi" life is not a bad idea, ESPECIALLY if you live in Thailand long term.

For the tourists, it doesn't matter very much if they get labeled a "bar butterfly", but for a long-term businessman? He'd lose Thai customers so fast his head would spin.

Keeping up appearances is important in Asia, and doubly important in Thailand. Thais will tolerate just about anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they like it.

Having a mai noi is a common practice, but flaunting your mai noi around in public? BAD idea.

A few years ago, I worked with another farang guy. When our customers went out to dinner, I'd get invited along, but he never did. When I asked someone about this, they told me, "Oh, that's because he's 'jow-shoo' (a playboy)".

Of course, they never knew that I was sucking every ladyboy dick in town at the time, but the difference between me and that guy, was that I never brought them home. Meanwhile, that guy was bringing home a different girl every week (and not from the go-go bars, from discos, but that didn't matter).

So if you're in Thailand for the long term, it PAYS (and I mean REALLY PAYS actual REAL MONEY) to protect your "image" and maintain a "good face". Nobody cares what you do "in private", but the thing most of us Westerners don't realize is that our apartments are not private!! Everyone in the neighborhood knows your business and they'll LOVE talking about you to anyone that'll listen.

(donnnnnny @ Sep. 18 2007,11:40)
well said sir you are basically seting her up as a mea noi(little wife) any thai mea noi does as she is told by her sponser. some thai girls actually want to be mea noi..as you say lay the law down dont act like the usual stupid farang, and stick to the rules,you will then have a chance of the relationship working well.
now for the flamers who want to be nice to the girls:

Thanks. Yep, you're right, this is a mai noi set-up and it'd work equally well for a girl or a ladyboy.

However, with ladyboys you have to be a bit more careful since many of them tend to be a wee bit "touched" in the head (its an endearing trait as long as you're on their good side, but lord help you if you piss them off). Which is why it's nice to have an apartment on the other side of town, that way any "drama" won't haunt you forever.

Thai guys do this all the time, and they're very straightforward about laying down some rules and expecting them to be followed.

This isn't about "training" or "reforming" a girl/ladyboy. Personally, I don't think that can be done.

This is simply about setting up a buffer to protect yourself, then setting some limits to the "relationship" (arrangement, actually).

You tell her what you expect and what you'll tolerate, and as long as she plays along, life is good for everyone. If things sour, you just cut bait and disappear. If you've been smart about it, she'll have no way of tracking you down and making your life miserable.

The important thing is to not be a prick about it and to show the girl some respect too. It's a business arrangement, not a real relationship, but that doesn't mean it can't be friendly and MUTUALLY enjoyable.

(TomCat @ Sep. 18 2007,11:40)
Your message is more suitable for someone fostering a giant Zambian Pouch Rat than a human being.....

You've never seen the insides of a Ladyboy purse, have you , heheh. It's like an alternate dimension in there. They can fit more crap into a handbag, than I can fit into the trunk of my car.

(yokoono @ Sep. 17 2007,11:40) I'd rather find a girl who isn't selling herself and go from there.

Oh, me too, absolutely.

I have a girlfriend, and I'm fortunate enough to have one that doesn't mind (and in fact, enjoys) my ladyboy addiction.

She's a sweet, conservative (until she met me ) girl from a good family. Which is actually the biggest reason I'm going through all the trouble of setting up an arrangement like this. I need to protect her reputation more than my own.

It would really reflect badly on my girlfriend if one of her friends or someone in her family (or their friends) spotted me coming out of Nana Plaza with a couple of young ladyboys in tow.

Going down to Pattaya doesn't solve the problem since half of Bangkok holiday's down there as well. So really, the best option for me and her is to set something up "on the down-low".

We've even been talking about setting up a webcam so my girlfriend can peek in on the fun without introducing herself to every ladyboy I boink (which would be A LOT). She likes this idea, because she wants in on the fun, but she really doesn't want some bar girl waving at her while she's walking around Paragon with her Mom.

So on the one hand, it might seem unnecessary for me to be so paranoid and private, since my girlfriend already knows everything (of course, the advice is even more relevant if your girl doesn't know). But on the other hand, since I have such a great girl, it makes it doubly important for me to keep things very private, for her sake, not my own.

(raytonSep. 18 2007 @ 11:40)
brilliant post doug, i doubt many will use your advice as most guys are just there to butterfly,

Thanks. Yes, this is not advice for tourists. I doubt they'd care much about a "butterfly" label. Heck, many might find it beneficial to be labelled butterflies. It'd help free them up from the "cling-on" girls.

(darkestdesire @ Sep. 17 2007,11:40)
It sounds and seems like the Thesis of a MSc Degree in Ladyboys but I think it may well work out for GGs too...
congratulations VERY INTERESTING, well written and useful for the ones who live in Thailand

Thanks. I did my Master's Degree in Cocksucking and I'm currently working on my Doctorate in Taking It Up the Ass. Funny thing is, although I've done PLENTY of research, I just can't seem to collect enough "data" to reach a "satisfying" conclusion.

I wish I had faculty advisors like Professor Stogie or Professor Billy, but they're mostly "field researchers", and they let a bunch of grad students teach their classes. Pricks .

[qwerty]

doug,

way to complex and it'll backfire.
the LB will flip out at some point, or the LB friend of hers that she confides this all to- and she will- may fuck up and see you in public and say something. its happened believe me.

i can appreciate your need for privacy but i think its simpler than all this.

manage to get one night out. go to guess, cascades obsessions. collect as many phone numbers names and possibly face pics as you can. emails too.

simply call them in the afternoon for some off-hours action. pay them and youre off. you can see that girl again or try another.

but believe me, even if youve worked out the scenarios yours is so complex its got to back fire. try my method and eliminate the commitments.

[jimslim]

Good plan , but I dont think practical
I dont belive there is a such thing as privacy in Thailand , even in a city as big as Bangkok , everyone knows someone , who knows someone else who knows you
I once recieved a call from a girl in Koh Samui who knew I was in Pattaya , and I still havent a clue to this day how she found out  

=  

[Dieter]

My question was ....How not fall in love?


Dieter

[dummy_plug]

(orgasmaddict @ Sep. 17 2007,21:42)

Frankly it's far, far easier, cheaper, more rewarding and a whole lot less stressful to find a non-bar ladyboy to shack up with.

Stogie maybe you could do i guide to picking up a non-bar lb?

I don't think its rocket science...hopefully you (or anyone else interested) has some experience picking up women in your native land.

Yeah...might be a stretch for some readers out there...but really go to LOS and wash, rinse, and repeat.

[stogie bear]

way to complex and it'll backfire...

That sums it up for me.

(I'm really enjoying this thread!)

[gunslinger]

Some good stuff here, but I would not have said this..

Tell her, "look, I'll sponsor you for 6 months, guaranteed.

                      To me, the minute you say something like this the whole thing becomes something else. Try it on, if she is that arsed then you would not have to say it.
                       To the drugs thing I would add booze and ciggies.

[rxpharm]

Doug, very enlightening strategy you have if you do meet the bar lb you might want to try this with! Clearly this is geared towards guys living in LOS and if the situation was the same as you are in now - this might work.

I do agree with some of the other comments this would require a lot of effort, but it might be worth the reward if things worked out. You are quite lucky to have a gf that accepts your interest in lbs, and clearly it makes sense that you would want to keep her from being "exposed" if some lb greeted her in the wrong situation.

This seems quite similar to a strategy that guys in other countries use to keep a mistress - so the mia noi idea is nothing new.

Good luck and report back if you meet someone you might want to try this with!

[Guest]

Pogue, you and I are in the naive idiots category. I welcome the company.

After 3 years in a continuing succesful LB relationship, thankfully, very thankfully, I do nothing whatsover that you suggest Doug.

At first when I read all these posts, I thought I had dyslexia, because it seemed I read a different post than the initial topic setter. And outstanding members on the forum saying it was good and well thought out? So, I re-read it, and I confirm I do not have dyslexia, and it is indeed was one of the most insulting, worst posts I've read for a while.

First, I'd say you show no personal characteristics that any human being would want to share...I'm cheap, I'm lazy, I hate this, I hate that. Is there anything you like about this country or its people? Why are you here?

Then, as Tomcat (bloody hell, is he the only sane person on this thread?), eloquently stated...what you really want to do is harbor a personal slave, as a pack rat in a remote apartment.

Do you really think you are that you can shove someone in a remote apartment, with no friends, no relatives, do as I say, spend as I tell you, walk when I say walk, talk when I say talk, and by the way, I'm a good samaritan because I'll encourage you to get a job like a "true sponsor"? What melodrama was that added at the end of a perfect piece on how to execute 18th century slavery in 21st century Bangkok?

Hopefully you never execute this, and thankfully, no girl is stupid enough to fall for it.

[katoeylover]

I think to actually keep someone locked away from their friends and family is tantamount to keeping a slave.

If you are that paranoid and its that big a deal if you are caught, then maybe you shouldnt play the game.

[stogie bear]

I'm with Ziggy... (it hurt to type that!)

[stogie bear]

After 3 years in a continuing succesful LB relationship, thankfully, very thankfully, I do nothing whatsover that you suggest Doug.

Three years, eh? How time flies! I was the one that introduced you two!

Don't forget Ziggy, that this so called "continuing succesful LB relationship" is strictly on YOUR terms. Having met May on several occasions I'll bet her interpretation of a successful relationship isn't one that allows you to continue to ratchet up enormous stats on pummeling other ladyboys and visiting the places where ladyboys hang out.