Degradation of the Forum

[stogie bear]

It certainly sounds to me like you don't like people who disagree with you...

Well, this isn't quite true. I like most people I have met on this forum and I'd say that a good amount of the people I like do disagree with much of what I say.

But it IS true to say that I don't like it when people disagree with me! None of us do. I don't write stuff that I believe to be wrong so if someone disagrees with me then I don't like it.

But that's the whole idea of posting here isn't it? I like the people I disagree with. So that makes the debate reasoned and more interesting usually.

Nobody gets deleted because I or the moderators don't agree with them. I've never deleted a post from someone having a go at me personally. I know I'm contentious but I believe I am right...

If you think I'm full of shit then write it down and join in the debate. There are plenty that have in the past. I'm thick skinned and I can take it!

Think I'm prejudiced against foreigners and religeons? You bet I am and I've never met an honest man who isn't. It's human nature and it's instinctive behaviour. No amount of pussy politics is gonna make me change and start using face cream or eating green granola bars...

Where is the 'High Fat Yoghurt' please waiter?  

You know what... Rocky is apologizing like a pussy girl for carrying hormones into Australia... Imus is apologising like a pussy girl for joking about some amatuer basketball players, Mel Gibson is saying sorry like a pussy girl for shouting at a Jew, Richerd the gerbil Gere is apologizing like a pussy girl for kissing a girl on the cheek, That comedian from Seinfeld is apologizing like a pussy girl for losing his temper on stage...

For fucks sake, men... what's going on? What happened to our pride and dignity?

Screw these pathetic losers who want to say sorry every time some dumb ass has a gripe...

I apologise to NOONE EVER! And I don't ever use rollers in my hair and cry at the movies...

The next 30 years that I'm alive will be lived by MY sense of what is right and wrong not by some moronic 'new wave' liberal poof who thinks he knows how the world should be run...

 I think that's clear enough!  

[brocklanders]

I'm with ya Stogie. Sometimes I think you tolerte my rants because I might remind you of a more ignorant kid brother who also doesnt back down from his statements. Actually we are probably around the same age so kid brother might be stretching it a bit.

[donnnnnny]

(ziggystardust @ May 13 2007,20:57) I have to say that recently it seems this forum has degraded signficantly. There is no thread without rabid personal assaults. There are few threads without racial, religious, and sexual preference hatred spewed.

It was at one time a fun LB forum, with a little psycho-analysis that is quite educational and entertaining. I used to read this because of the great jokes. It now seems to be tending towards a white supremacy forum.

When the webmaster is the leader of some of that, it is of even greater concern, as that only goads people on to continue.

It's at a point where I've heard many people say they don't want to initiate threads anymore, and many also saying they don't want to read it anymore because of this tendency. Certainly, I'm leaning that way, as any attempt at something fun rapidly goes back to some form of taunt and hatred comments.

So what do y'all think?

im affraid i just dont agree. ive been called cheap and nasty things here by fellow members but how this can relate to :" white supremesist " forum is totally beyond me. i. how do you know if the people responsible are even white??
calling someone white is racist as you are looking at a person because of the colour of there skin, maybe you need to look at that??
he forum has become demanding and rude that is for syre, but white supremesist(your words) no way .
ps sorry for bad spelling ive lost my glasses and the wine has yet to kick in

[donnnnnny]

(stogie bear @ May 16 2007,10:45)

It certainly sounds to me like you don't like people who disagree with you...

Well, this isn't quite true. I like most people I have met on this forum and I'd say that a good amount of the people I like do disagree with much of what I say.

But it IS true to say that I don't like it when people disagree with me! None of us do. I don't write stuff that I believe to be wrong so if someone disagrees with me then I don't like it.

But that's the whole idea of posting here isn't it? I like the people I disagree with. So that makes the debate reasoned and more interesting usually.

Nobody gets deleted because I or the moderators don't agree with them. I've never deleted a post from someone having a go at me personally. I know I'm contentious but I believe I am right...

If you think I'm full of shit then write it down and join in the debate. There are plenty that have in the past. I'm thick skinned and I can take it!

Think I'm prejudiced against foreigners and religeons? You bet I am and I've never met an honest man who isn't. It's human nature and it's instinctive behaviour. No amount of pussy politics is gonna make me change and start using face cream or eating green granola bars...

Where is the 'High Fat Yoghurt' please waiter?  

You know what... Rocky is apologizing like a pussy girl for carrying hormones into Australia... Imus is apologising like a pussy girl for joking about some amatuer basketball players, Mel Gibson is saying sorry like a pussy girl for shouting at a Jew, Richerd the gerbil Gere is apologizing like a pussy girl for kissing a girl on the cheek, That comedian from Seinfeld is apologizing like a pussy girl for losing his temper on stage...

For fucks sake, men... what's going on? What happened to our pride and dignity?

Screw these pathetic losers who want to say sorry every time some dumb ass has a gripe...

I apologise to NOONE EVER! And I don't ever use rollers in my hair and cry at the movies...

The next 30 years that I'm alive will be lived by MY sense of what is right and wrong not by some moronic 'new wave' liberal poof who thinks he knows how the world should be run...

 I think that's clear enough!  

shit ive got the clap.
donnnnny
ps weare now all anonymous or how ever you spell it . alot of us have met each other including ziggy And i and stogie kl kahuna rob69 etc etc

[donnnnnny]

hot ladyboy wow

[Guest]

I would like to correct you on one thing. You have met a foreigner who is not prejudiced against foreigners. Me.

Anyhow, let's give this baby a rest and get back to ladyboy talk. It's far too tiring and all points have been made.

[Guest]

[quote]
(stogie bear @ May 16 2007,10:45)

You know what... Rocky is apologizing like a pussy girl for carrying hormones into Australia... Imus is apologising like a pussy girl for joking about some amatuer basketball players, Mel Gibson is saying sorry like a pussy girl for shouting at a Jew, Richerd the gerbil Gere is apologizing like a pussy girl for kissing a girl on the cheek, That comedian from Seinfeld is apologizing like a pussy girl for losing his temper on stage...

For fucks sake, men... what's going on? What happened to our pride and dignity?

Screw these pathetic losers who want to say sorry every time some dumb ass has a gripe...

I apologise to NOONE EVER!

when i first read this last night i thought this was arrogant, but thinking about it more, you are absolutely right. Fkin words to live by, actually.

Nothing wrong to admitting you are wrong or apologize when you hit a pedestrian with you car at a crosswalk, but in general, i agree, sb.

Last week we had a world famous magician who said he wouldn´t get jobs in Las Vegas because the guys booking the artists are fags and jews, and that they don´t like him. He got slagged bad and the other day he apologized to teh whole world with his pants down his ancles wearing conehead hat. Pussy.

[Guest]

Ziggy, I have to disagree with you here.

Stogie doesn't have to be your idea of moral perfection. He can be a complete asshole if he wants. I'm not saying he is... Ziggy and Stogie are actually the two people I find I agree with most on this forum.

I happen to think Stogie is often right, or has good instincts about things, but doesn't always completely know why, or thoroughly explore a situation intellectually- and he probably doesn't care to. I get the feeling he is more of an introvert, and is happy with something as long as it seems to be working.

On the other hand, Ziggy, I think you can be a little over-intellectual, and over-sensitive. You remind me a little of those people who want to "understand" Muslims, while you forget that there are people who want to kill us simply because we are westerners. (I'm not starting a muslim conversation, I'm just using an example people will be familiar with).

I'm not perfect myself. I once made a mistake back in 1983. (haha). Seriously, sometimes I argue off-the-handle when I'm emoionally pissed off about something. Sometimes I make a point long and dry, too much intellect and no heart. I occasionally post things absolutely no one gives a crap about, and sometimes I pretend to back an idea I just found, just to see how it plays out in the arena of tough idealogical debate.

In short, Ziggy I think you have your feelings hurt and feel personally offended and a little morally upright. Tough. Us Economists have to constantly remind people that you don't get to choose the perfect option, you get to choose the marginally best option that is available or create a new option if you see sufficient unmet value there.

The forum, and the human beings involved in it are not perfect, or at least may not fit your idea of what sensitive souls ought to be. I don't care or need them to be. As long as the board is up and running, and I can get my say out, I don't care what others say.

Worrying about controlling or limiting what others say is the road to censorship. The correct way to counter what you perceive to be bad information is simply by getting your own two cents in. I haven't seen anyone preventing that around here. Not even mean old grizzled Stogie Bear.

[stogie bear]

I would like to correct you on one thing. You have met a foreigner who is not prejudiced against foreigners. Me.

Reread my post correctly! I said an honest man...

It's simply impossible not to be prejudiced to a degree.

[stogie bear]

I suppose I had better qualify what I interpret "prejudice" to mean...

It does not necassarily mean hatred and derision. You can be prejudiced without disdain.

I  believe that we are "wired" to be fearful or mistrustful of people who appear "different" from us in some way.  It harkens back even beyond tribal days to our most primitive state where we were only safe in "our" groups, however they were constructed (for example - families).

However, since that simpler time of no internet and chasing pigs around in circles, we have (supposedly) moved beyond that stage and now we have become "civilizations!"

We can use our thinking brains to overcome our primitive brains and realize that the things that unite us are much deeper than those that divide us, and we are all in the same Earth Boat together. However I do not believe that any man can simply overcome his natural instincts and state that he is "not prejudiced."

You may try to be fair to others in life and that's laudable. But trying to be fair is not enough to counter the unconscious influence of our prejudices. I believe this to be a provable fact and I can probably dredge up some wackos to support this.

Another angle... While commonsense may seem to infer that your parents' specific attitudes toward other groups/religeons/races influence your views towards believing the same things, I personally believe that this actually is not the case. I think class and social backgrounds have more of a factor. This probably doesn't apply to views on religeon so much as the community is all consumming in this area.

It's folly to say that you are not prejudiced...

Another angle... Even though I am prejudiced against poor people, most minorities and all religous people I am good at disassociating their individuality from their status. One on one, I can quite happily natter away at an airport with a Koran-thumping Muslim. I guess it all goes back to the pack thing... Maybe we need to be prejudiced to make sense of our own identities...

What really worries me are these politically motivated "non-racists" who insist on pointing out that blacks are just as good as whites and that men are just as good as women and that Christians can pray just as hard as Muslims... To me this is racist behaviour. Why rake up and sell these obvious notions? Why profess these evident truths? Why not just shut the fuck up and let people carry on being as good as each other?

This patronizing attitude to minorities and other cultures is just as bad as indifference. Actually - indifference is better. An indifferent person is truly non-prejudiced...

I'm prejudiced. I'm not proud of it and I try to be reasonable in my actions, but to say that I'm not prejudiced would be a lie and a deniel of myself. I'm subconsciously prejudiced but consciously fair and rational.

I also believe that giving minorities the opportunities for success and prosperity means that they should take the fall when they fuck up and NOT be bailed out of failure on account of who they are or what they believe in. This trend of accelerating promotion for minorities simply to "make up the numbers" is the worst kind of prejudice and social engineering gone barmy.

The issue for me boils down to integration. I can get on fine with most people but I do NOT want to live with them.

This terrifying wave of forced integration in the UK is the single biggest cause of riots and disharmony because... incredible as it my appear... everyone (almost) thinks the same as me! We can get along great with each other if we are no forced to live with each other!

[stogie bear]

A further thought (or two...)

I'm a bit concerned about the motives of anyone who are quick to point out perceived intolerance... especially on an internet message board where there are no colors. Are some people on the lookout for posts that don't meet their own social sensibilities?

And why would a person who is a self professed 'non prejudiced' person be highlighting matters of a healthy debate as something negative? Maybe we should bury all our feelings and hope that no-one will find out about how evil we really are, eh?

For (most) white people race is a subject that can be discussed in a few sentences and then we can move on to football and sex... We aren't consummed by the process of equality and what's fair or what's right and wrong. For blacks (and I suspect others) race isn't something that can just be yakked about for a few minutes in a bar or an online message board.

Ziggy - You ARE prejudiced and seem to be in arrogant denial. By taking part in this debate you have proven an interest in this issue so you have prejudices like the rest of us humans. If you were completely bemused and confused by the whole idea of cultural and racial differences then I might be inclined to believe that it were possible to be non-prejudiced.

Show me a man without prejudice and I'll show you a liar.

[Guest]

(grunyen @ May 17 2007,02:37) I happen to think Stogie is often right, or has good instincts about things, but doesn't always completely know why, or thoroughly explore a situation intellectually- and he probably doesn't care to...

On the other hand, Ziggy, I think you can be a little over-intellectual, and over-sensitive.

I am actually a long-time member who has become increasingly annoyed by Ziggy's insufferable moralising. This parody of Ziggy and the very conceited and academic journal titled Annals of Higher Learning followed. Then being the pathetic bastard that I am, I kind of felt bad about maybe being too hard on Ziggy. That was before all of the recent posts, especially the nagging poppycock from Ziggy that he is not prejudiced. Intellectual blokes would refer to their condoms as duncecaps if they were the least bit honest about the source and magnitude of their wisdom.

[stogie bear]

Intellectual blokes would refer to their condoms as duncecaps if they were the least bit honest about the source and magnitude of their wisdom.

Amen to that.

[katoeylover]

(grunyen @ May 16 2007,18:37) Worrying about controlling or limiting what others say is the road to censorship. The correct way to counter what you perceive to be bad information is simply by getting your own two cents in. I haven't seen anyone preventing that around here. Not even mean old grizzled Stogie Bear.

The best part of this entire thread.

Once you start, where does the censoring end?

[brocklanders]

Perfect example that we are all prejudiced is that there is an entire industry devoted to this thought process....advertising...and to a lesser extent, marketing. These industries are founded upon sweeping generalizations and ingrained prejudices that we all have. You think McDonald's started having black people in their commercials by accident?