'Proper' relationships with ladyboys...

[Bumpa STIKKA]

They are hampered by superstition...

Interesting that the Western writer regards Thais as being handicapped by their approach to life when in my view it's the Westerners that are crippled by ambition and inquisitiveness.

I'm sure the quality of life (by my standard) for the poorest Thai people far far exceeds that of the richest people in The West.

There is a lot to be said for superstition, ghosts and 200 year old dogma... It's a great way of getting through the day... and your life.

So what if it isn't true... is "being all you can be" in America just as much of a fantasy? Is fame from The X Factor really going to sustain you for your whole life?

One thing we should acknowledge is that almost all of us won't have much to do with rich Thai people. The more sophisticated end of the Thai social strata is always going to be beyond our reach and acceptance.

[f0xxee]

There are few cultures in this world that do not subscribe to a belief in a higher being.
There are few cultures in this world who are not inherently materialistic.

For me opening my mind to the more relaxed and less hurried pace of thai life has been both a revelation and also to an extent a life-saver: anyone who has read my posts over the last two years will notice I have mellowed and am possibly less given to outbursts of anger. This is in no small degree due to the education of Mrs F and her family, who have taught me to to relax.

Are Thais perfect. NO! Far from it. But they are different in ways that are worth respecting. They suffer the same western faults and failures that we do: aravice, envy, greed, jealousy, bending the truth, etc. They suffer drug addictions, alcoholism, paedophiles etc. They are not perfect. But it generally seems to me that are content in a fashion that we never seem to achieve. And that for my money is what life is about: contentment.

I will always see religion as the opiate of the poor and oppressed: The the best tool going for keeping the downtrodden from revolution is belief that that things will be better next time around. This is why I chose to accept buddhism as a lifestyle rather than a religion.

Getting back on track, Paccie asked what a propper relationship is: Simply one that is built on trust and a plan to build a future with that person.

[Jake_Sully]

I know the post is full of sweeping generalisations but there was no way to write this & add caveats to every last point. I invite all rational debate on this endlessly fascinating subject.

Rational debate on something irrational by your standards? Is that even possible? Things here are not so simply black and white here paccie. There is a lot of gray that we could write a book on, but you probably already know it but still can't accept because it doesn't make any sense.

But bottom line since since it doesn't make sense, let me give you 1 thing that does make sense, "In LOS you're a guest. Its not your home so your rules do not apply." Its like you are visiting your friends house. You don't know why that old rug in the living room hasn't been vacuumed for 10 years, you just know he's a good friend, who's a bit lazy and you accept it and just make your friendship work despite of that if its valuable to you.

[PigDogg]

Here is one writer's view on the subject:


QUOTE
Thais are often uniquely incapable of learning about their own country, being too deeply entangled in the characteristics of Thai-ness that prevent them from seeking the truth

Seems to me this applies to any country.

For example, Americans grew up thinking the Cowboys were good and the Indians bad.

That MickeyD's is a normal and healthy way to eat.

So on and so on.

The truth is our Culture brainwashes most of us.

[Bumpa STIKKA]

(PigDogg @ Oct. 24 2010,12:07) The truth is our Culture brainwashes most of us.

The man in the dark sunglasses from The Ministry of Information says you're wrong... and wants to know your social security number!

[guydesavoy]

 I believe Paccie's post contained the appropriate level of qualifications and caveats so am at a loss to understand the motivation behind what amounts to an almost wilful mis-characterisation of what was said.  

Tips&advice to ensure the success of a proper relationship ? Mmm let's see...

Aside from observing the cultural elements that have been well canvassed here and elsewhere, the following might be helpful.

1. Move to Thailand. Live with her. Long distance aint gonna cut it. If that's all you can manage, logistically, fine, but accept that for what it is. Unless you have a realistic plan to move there at some realistic point in the future. Otherwise your 'proper' relationship will go the way of all long distance relationships...South.

2. The rest will, or will not, as the case may be, take care of itself. It's really no different to any relationship. Start with compatability and affinity (money helps here) and work out the kinks from there.

3. Be sure that it is a relationship that you really want/need. Notsimply an internet fantasy (as amusing as they can be). Surprising how many don't seem to know the difference.  

All the rest is balls. Just suck it and see  

[Jake_Sully]

Guy just curious, were you replying regarding my post? I didn't mean to come across as curt.

[pacman]

I should point out the quote I included in my last post was taken from a letter that was published in the Bangkok Post while I was staying in Pattaya. I was dumbfounded by the tenor of the complete letter (and many others that I read on a daily basis) as it was critical of Thais to the point where it could be considered racist. How the Bangkok Post gets away with publishing letters & articles that consistently attack their host country defies my imagination. Bravo for the freedom of the press in LOS. Police corruption is a constant theme, ironic when you consider that their every move is being reported in the Bangkok Post.

I am conscious that my fellow BM Jake Sully is half Thai & I would hate to think I had offended him with my post. And I didn't think his reply was curt, I actually invite him to clarify his point & explain why we can't have a rational debate on the subject of Thai-ness? I wasn't aware I was applying my standards to anything, I tried to make my points as non-political as possible. Maybe I needed more caveats?

And a response to those who commented:

Foxxee - I knew if I was completely off-track that you would tell me. I am glad we can agree on some things. And yes, all religions are based on superstition. Christianity is just another cult IMO.

Bumpa - I am coming around to share your opinion that it is the Thais who have it right & we in the west lost our way a long time ago. Once we became a nation of cities & not villages, everything started to go wrong. Thai villages still have headmen. Who have respect. The way it is meant to be, IMO.

PigDogg - yes, agreed, what we are bought up with does become the basis of our cultural brainwashing. And Americans do hold onto American ideals very strongly. Though I don't see that as a bad thing, just a touch xenophobic.

Guydesavoy - thanks for adding your clarification & I agree with your points for a good relationship. Particularly the last one, I have been amazed by those who have been more in love with the idea of being in love than were actually in love. How does anyone believe that 3 or 4 nights of paid sex with a beautiful girl can then be extrapolated as being some wonderful affair of the heart? Then I consider the guy who has bought this dream & have realised that his "girl" is quite probably the only girl who has ever hung around past the first night. While it may be arrogant of me to suggest they don't love the girl, even after a few days, it is stupid of them to believe that she loves him just as much. But still they come...      

[Jake_Sully]

Paccie I wasn't offended at all but I was just pointing out that despite most of us being intellectuals.. some things just don't make any sense and cannot be subjected to rationale. Dissecting them and trying to make sense of it only tends to make us jaded and question ourselves which results in the place we love losing its luster, in our minds.

For example, my mother was in a coma after a car accident for nearly 2 months, the doctors gave up hope and wanted us to pull the plug, but my dad prayed and put something on her that he had gotten as a blessing from a monk and within 2 hours, she gained consciousness and started getting better. The doctors were shocked and had never seen anything like that. And my dad is a doctor too, to see him resort to that and seeing it work still makes my head spin.

So some things are just best left the way they are. I maybe Buddhist personally but I'm far from religious. But some things have to be taken with a certain paradox and that's what makes them so special - hence our desire to reach out and visit, feel and touch what is exotic. I believe that if the entire world lived by our rationale, we would never need to leave home or visit los, would we? - it would be more of the same.

And to Thai's the western ways are an equal Shakespearean tragedy. Want to know why most Thai's prefer living in Thailand? We are selfish. We might have money, but we're slaves to it and chase it even at the cost of those close to us. We have no real family bonds. At 18 years old we tell our children to get out. The western kids do not often care for their parents when they are elderly and often say parents are selfish expecting kids to give up their lives to attempt to do so. I have been told love is more than western love which is a kiss or great sex.. its commitment to someone for a lifetime - and not many westerners are capable of that. That is why family bonds are so strong and generally relationships within Thai's take a long time to cement as you find out if the other can accept their family. But you are right too.

Quite often the family can exploit the breadwinner. I know this first hand. But these are the bad cases, just like there are good ones too and those are the ones we aspire to follow.

Hopefully I haven't offended you paccie as I am no expert with LB's and (will) quite often humbly need your or other bm's counsel on LB's. But as far as understanding Thai ways.. trying to combine our western best with the best parts of Thai culture is quite a balancing act and a work in progress for anyone that has tried - and so happens to be a source of constant discussion in my home. There is no guide that can cover it all. You just have to keep your common sense and improvise on the spot to keep your balance for whatever you may encounter next. I suspect that is tricky enough but like you said, mix that with ex- bargirls, ex-p4p, multiple ex-boyfriends or sponsors and it goes from being a balancing act to navigating a minefield.

If you see threats or something that annoys you everywhere, you cannot manage to do it and eventually you become jaded at the thought of even trying. But if you are much more relaxed and selective of the real dangers and train yourself to ignore most of what bothers you.. you might have a better chance.

[Steff]

Well put Jake.

[guydesavoy]

You jaidee Jake

This is a volatile topic for those whose emotions are/have been invested. Posts like yours are a valuable add to the mix

[pacman]

     Agreed, valuable & interesting...      

And that's a great story about your mother Jake, how is she now? And do all Buddhists place more faith in spontaneous recovery than western medicine? I find it amazing that your doctor father did what he did but how can anyone argue against his actions after what happened?

[Jake_Sully]

She's good now thanks, almost 85% of where she was before the accident. A 100% recovery is close to impossible after the kind of accident it was.

About the other question, its hard for me to comment accurately, since I haven't been there in a long time and I as you can probably make out, do not come from rural areas. But by observing those around me, I would say most people have common sense about western medicine being the first fix if possible. Quite often though its regarded as a pain suppressor and not a cure. If it doesn't give a full cure, people tend to lean to alternative medicine or spiritual side. Buddhist monks have medicines from roots that they give in some places. Its kind of like a parallel of Homeopathy which people tend to follow when the first solution fails. If they are poor or are monks in a monastery, well their course of action might be different of course.

By the way, I should clarify, there is no way Thai's can rightfully think they're holier than thou either, because if you spend enough time around Thai's you will see where they are wrong but - but that is another side of the story and best kept to yourself if you want relationships to work. If you have to vent, go for a walk or talk only around people with integrity who you know won't tell others - if they even exist. You're not the only one if you've ever thought, "Thai people are crazy!" But isn't it like that with just about everyone that doesn't conform to our version of normal?

So like I said, its quite a balancing act.

[PigDogg]

(guydesavoy @ Oct. 24 2010,04:16) Tips&advice to ensure the success of a proper relationship ? Mmm let's see...

Aside from observing the cultural elements that have been well canvassed here and elsewhere, the following might be helpful.

1. Move to Thailand. Live with her. Long distance aint gonna cut it. If that's all you can manage, logistically, fine, but accept that for what it is. Unless you have a realistic plan to move there at some realistic point in the future. Otherwise your 'proper' relationship will go the way of all long distance relationships...South.

2. The rest will, or will not, as the case may be, take care of itself. It's really no different to any relationship. Start with compatability and affinity (money helps here) and work out the kinks from there.

3. Be sure that it is a relationship that you really want/need. Notsimply an internet fantasy (as amusing as they can be). Surprising how many don't seem to know the difference.  

Hits the nail on the head Guy!!

[perth_couple]

Oddly enough, this is pretty universal advice on 'having a relationship'