Blind fools in love...

[manarak]

(JaiDee @ Nov. 05 2009,09:22)

(f0xxee @ Nov. 05 2009,09:00) PLease note I have never criticised you or anyone else for butterflying

Oh, I know .....and trust me, the last thing I am these days is a butterfly!!

I mean sheeesh, I spent 2+ months in Thailand last winter and never even slept with a Thai person once ...  who else on this board can claim THAT  

      Right, the 'relationships gone wrong' atmosphere going on now is a  downer, so if stories from guys like you and Soc are more upbeat and happy and you have GOOD ones going on, that's fantastic!  Despite being a cynic half the time, I would seriously never want to stand in the way of someone falling in/staying in love for any amount of time....I'd always applaud it and hope the best for anyone who enjoys that lifestyle.

   Fact is however, many of us don't ..... being able to travel where and when I want to, eat and sleep when I choose, watch sports, listen to my music, go to the beach, etc.... without running it by anyone is a luxury I  can never see myself giving up just so I can have a few hours of nookie per week [or even per day] and the ability to share ''love'', with another person.  I am happiest alone, have made peace with that, and will probably always be such and with absolutely no complaints.

 But that's just me......we all have different tastes and interests and that's what makes life [and this message board] so interesting.

for some reason, I am never happy.

When I am with someone I like/love, she invariably gets on my nerves after a few days, and when I am alone a few days, I wished I was with her...

I guess that makes me a butterfly.

[doug]

(Naang Faa @ Nov. 05 2009,08:49) Its a business Doug like any other.. Successful businessmen & women
very rarely get to where they are without being ruthless...
Then they pop off home to their loving wife/husband....no difference.
                                                                                                         x

Like I said, you've got a rose-colored view of things and your reply proves it.

Trying to compare a "ruthlessly" successful businessman to a "ruthlessly" successful meth-addicted prostitute is just silly. And saying there is "no difference" between the two of them simply because they both share the quality of "ruthlessness" is a borderline delusional warping of reality.

Are those glasses of yours rose-colored? Or are they an opaque-black with "Don't Panic" written on the side?

A successful businessman isn't going to show up on your doorstep at 2am drunk and screaming loud enough to wake all the neighbors. A successful businessman isn't going to empty your bank account and steal all your valuables.

So if you're going to excuse the behavior of some con-artist/thief ladyboy who's left a trail of broken and victimized men in her wake because you think she's just acting like a "ruthless businesswoman", you're out of your flipping mind.

Not all ladyboys are thieves and drug-addicts, just like not all punters are fat, old men. So I'm not trying to paint all these girls with a broad brush. You, on the other hand, are. You're trying to say that these girls are just sweet angels when they "pop off to their hubbies at home", but that the cons, drug-use, psychotic behavoior and theft are just "ruthless business-dealings" like the kind Bill Gates gets up to, well, that's painting an entirely too rosy portrait of these girls.

Sure, some of these girls are nice. You've got good friends and so do I. So in spite of what you may think, I'm not dismissive of these girls. What I am dismissive of is the notion that a CUSTOMER can walk into Disneyland and marry Minnie Mouse. That's ridiculous.

Practically every month we get "I-spent-my-life-savings-on-my-EX-ladyboy-lover" tales of woe posted to these forums. It's fairly clear where your loyalties lie, and I don't blame you for sticking up for your girlfriends. But don't try to make it out like it's OK for these girls to milk some love-struck fool. You might hear those tales of woe and think, "good job girl! way to rake in that bling!", but destroying someone's life just to buy more drugs or designer purses is never OK. Period.

Stick up for your friends, yes of course. But don't try to make excuses for them either. Wrong is wrong, and even a friends should be able to see that.

[Ericthehalfabee]

$50 says Doug is American.

[Naang Faa]

(doug @ Nov. 05 2009,19:50) Like I said, you've got a rose-colored view of things and your reply proves it.

Trying to compare a "ruthlessly" successful businessman to a "ruthlessly" successful meth-addicted prostitute is just silly.  And saying there is "no difference" between the two of them simply because they both share the quality of "ruthlessness" is a borderline delusional warping of reality.

Are those glasses of yours rose-colored?  Or are they an opaque-black with "Don't Panic" written on the side?

Only read as far as this. are ALL ladyboys meth heads?
There are rose tinted glasses Doug and just plain bollocks.

Paranoia is a symptom of drug abuse Doug........
x

[f0xxee]

Hi GT,

I think Doug has a valid point.

Bernie Madoff? Possible sociopath in as much as he has no regard for the lives he has destroyed. But thankfully there are checks and balances in the financial system (hahahah) and hopefully not too many Madoffs around. There is also (to my rose coloured and highly optimistic way of thinking) a difference between investing our money and investing our heart. If you invest money you should be prepared to lose money... But should you be looking at the poor house for investing your heart?


Dougs closer is also valid: "but destroying someone's life just to buy more drugs or designer purses is never OK. Period."

Ok leave out the drugs and handbags bit. It is not ok to destroy someone elses life to enhance yours. If "enhance" means put food on the table or a roof over your head the rules are the same.

I am not for a minute suggesting your friends are anything less than angels. The point is that scamming is wrong. No matter who does it, and poverty is no excuse.

[Ericthehalfabee]

Excuse me but if anyone feels that they are so completely devoid of the ability to manage their financial affairs to the extent that they destroy their lives by handing their money to the point of destitution to someone 20 years younger than themselves then they should just STAY THE FUCK AT HOME.

Spend $7.95 a month on Stiffy.Asia, keep the curtain closed, never go outside, keep away from Vegas, purveyors of alcohol and the track. Hopefully you'll be safe from self destructiing while still obtaining some jollies.

If you can't afford it - don't play the game.

I swear the world would be a better place if most people just weren't allowed passports.

[Naang Faa]

I'd love to know where i said scamming was OK..

All i said was there are customers, there are sponsors and there will be
a guy they love..and i am referring to our particular group like i stated before!

Doug,i don't exactly know where you find these psychotic nutters that drive you
to paranoia, but you really need to improve on your choice of company.

Girls can scam, guys can leave families behind chasing ladyboys, guys can be violent towards
them (though you'd never know that, no one admits to that)
no one is whiter than white (cept me of course )

x

[doug]

(Naang Faa @ Nov. 06 2009,02:00)

(doug @ Nov. 05 2009,19:50) Like I said, you've got a rose-colored view of things and your reply proves it.

Trying to compare a "ruthlessly" successful businessman to a "ruthlessly" successful meth-addicted prostitute is just silly.  And saying there is "no difference" between the two of them simply because they both share the quality of "ruthlessness" is a borderline delusional warping of reality.

Are those glasses of yours rose-colored?  Or are they an opaque-black with "Don't Panic" written on the side?

 Only read as far as this. are ALL ladyboys meth heads?
 There are rose tinted glasses Doug and just plain bollocks.

Paranoia is a symptom of drug abuse Doug........
                                                                              x

Well, then you need to read a bit further next time before you call me paranoid:

(doug @ Nov. 05 2009,19:50) Not all ladyboys are thieves and drug-addicts, just like not all punters are fat, old men.   So I'm not trying to paint all these girls with a broad brush.  

(doug @ Nov. 05 2009,19:50) Sure, some of these girls are nice.  You've got good friends and so do I.  So in spite of what you may think, I'm not dismissive of these girls.  What I am dismissive of is the notion that a CUSTOMER can walk into Disneyland and marry Minnie Mouse.  That's ridiculous.

I don't dismiss these girls, nor do I paint them all with the same black brush.  I think I was pretty clear on that, but if you didn't catch it on the first read, let me restate that:  I am NOT saying bad things about ALL of these girls.

What I have always said is that guys need to be careful, protect their privacy, and not wear their hearts on their sleeve as they blunder through the P4P scene.

Why do you seem to have such a problem with that?

By warning the punters am I messing with the income stream of some of your "angelic" friends?  If so, too bad.

Perhaps your little group of friends really ARE angels, and perhaps they've never done anything bad to anyone.  If so, that's GREAT and I completely understand and respect your desire to stand up for your friends.

However, you tend to do that by extending the same lovely attributes to of ALL the girls we might run into (both inside and outside the P4P scene).  Perhaps in your lovely world, high-class escorts entertain well-to-do gentlemen with light conversation over drinks at a hi-so rooftop restaurant.  Or perhaps your world is populated with plucky young girls pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, working the most difficult job in the "hospitality" industry, but always with a smile on their face and a dream for a better tomorrow.

Yah.  That makes a great TV drama storyline, but the reality is that a significant percentage (if not a majority) of the girls in the P4P scene have BIG issues.  Either drug abuse, violent behavior, mental illness, trauma from abuse, criminal tendencies, etc...

NOT all, but definitely enough that if a guy spends enough time in the scene, he's going to encounter at least one or two nutters.  Being careful about "choosing partners" has NOTHING to do with that.  How many "broken heart" threads should I unearth on this forum to prove that point?  Things may start out well, but later on, they spiral out of control and quite often the guy ends up on the losing side of that equation.

Do you dispute that?  If so, you need to take off your rose-colored glasses.

There's no "paranoia" in my sentiments.  I'm just presenting a few facts and some hard-won experience.  People can agree or disagree with what I say, but usually pretty respectful when I post (except to the punters who think they can come to Thailand to shit on people and that's OK), so there's no need to get huffy if you don't like what I say.  I might jokingly say you're out of your flipping mind, but I don't call you "paranoid" or accuse you of "drug abuse" simply because you disagree with me.

I'm not sure why you have such a big problem with the things I say.  After all, the main drum that I beat is the mantra: "Don't come to Disneyland expecting to fall in love with Minnie Mouse".  And by that I mean, that guys should try to be a good CUSTOMER: cut the bullshit, treat the girls with respect, and pay them for a job well done.

What, exactly, do you have against that point of view?

I notice that you never get on my case when I come down hard on some doofus punter who thinks he can treat these girls like shit.  You don't have any problem with me telling those douche bags to get lost.  But you do seem to always pipe up with something to say when I talk about the bad behavior of some of the girls.  Why is that?  Are the guys the only ones to blame with things go sour?  Are these plucky little "businesswomen" of yours completely without flaws?

[Lefty]

(Ericthehalfabee @ Nov. 06 2009,02:00) $50 says Doug is American.

What the fuck difference does that make?

No matter where he is from, it is obvious from Doug's many posts that he is a very experienced, intelligent observer of all things related to Thailand and ladyboys.

I know damned well I get a whole lot more useful information from his posts than I ever have, or likely ever will, from those who like to attempt to shoot him down.

However, you're probably right. Based on Doug's intelligence and keen writing style, he probably is American.

[Ericthehalfabee]

The Fuck Difference as you put it is based on his attitude, his crappy argument, his fear of somehow someone might actually rip him off and he might not get his money's worth and his paranoia - something I see over and over with septics.

Behave like an arsehole - expect to be treated like one.

Send my $50 to the forum donation fund.

[Lefty]

So you're stereotyping all having what you perceive to be a bad attitude as Americans? How quaint.

So, where is this lovely Nirvana of Good Attitudes that you hale from?

BTW, I didn't bet you.

[JaiDee]

(Lefty @ Nov. 06 2009,13:15) However, you're probably right. Based on Doug's intelligence and keen writing style, he probably is American.

In the context of this thread that was a good one, Lefty!

[harley quinn]

Two things spring to mind:

1) Does Naang Faa have slippers with pom poms to go with the cardie?

2) Jai Dee spent 2 months in LOS and never slept with a Thai - surely its the staying awake part thats more fun

Right back to the salt mines!!!!

[Eazy_Sleazy]

Asian women or ladyboys are "temporary hires", PERIOD. The cycle repeats itself....one year, you're in love with the "ONE", and stop mongering. Then you have an epiphany while you're taking a shit, and think "I don't need to monger anymore"..."I really love this lady and I know it's going to work out, I'll never cheat again blah blah blah"...but you still want to monger as you wipe your ass. You flush the toilet and then remember your escape plan...how am I going to dump this lady? Okay, Hide the gold (check), hide my cash (check) and passport (check)...then run for the border while she's at the beauty shop (uh, check, maybe).

Oops too late!!!! Then while your drunk passed out in bed...the bitch goes psycho about 3am, breaks your TV and sunglasses and rips up all your pictures... So you dump her even after the make-up sex, monger for another year, then find the next one and do the same shit all over again. Hey man, who cares enjoy the ride it only lasts ONE lifetime!!! Once a monger always a monger!!!!!!!!!

EAZY SLEAZY

[manarak]

Foreword:
This post is unfocused, unclear and myself I can't grasp firmly what I want to say.
You've been warned.
Maybe I want to say that LBs who scam too much out of their admirers are just bad people, even by Thai standards.
I'd be interest to read Nang Faa's thoughts.

----------------

Back to the topic, I'd say that yes, scamming and lying are the tools of the trade for ladyboys.
They need the money to improve their status (face), and their status is their reason of living.
So far, all the LBs I have been with (with the exception of one) have been "through accounts", i.e. all money coming in is sent out, to improve their status.

Put it how you want:
family's water buffalo died --> LB pays a fresh one and improves her status with family
family is poor --> LB sends money and buys a supportive family
family is ok, but LB still sends money or presents (pickup, house) --> huge status/face gain in the whole village
LB needs money for boobs/facelift --> status gain through beauty

...

I digress.

The point I want to make is about LB work ethics.

Scamming and lying is usual practice, but breaking someone's life not only by breaking hearts but also by draining all money and even more is just plan EVIL.

Most of them are believers and salute/pray Buddha.
They too have values and an understanding of good/bad.

I think most LBs would agree that siphoning money from a well off sponsor is one thing, but sucking all life and money from a poor guy is another.
If you bring Buddhism into the equation - which is not only religious, but also the basis of ethics/morals in Thailand - then it appears that this behavior is unethical, and therefore not accepted even among their peers.