Blind fools in love...

[doug]

Well, I don't consider myself a "doommonger", just a pragmatist.

Naang Faa may have a rose-colored image of her ladyboy friends, but that's because she's a peer, not a cow to be milked. She's also in a position where the consequences of associating with ladyboys are not as severe as they are for some guys. A sponsorship gone awry can literally destroy a guy's life in some cases, so her opinions of her "sweet gal friends" is a bit too optimistic in my opinion.

Socrates seems to have his priorities straight, although I question why he's keeping the receipts. If the money doesn't matter, why keep track of it?

Spending 10K or 12K baht over the course of 18 months isn't all that unreasonable, but I do kind of dislike the notion of keeping track of "expenses" and comparing how you're making out to what you'd be paying on the P4P scene. That's a very cynical state-of-mind and actually kind of insulting to your girlfriend. If she's a girlfriend (and not just an extremely-long-time loan from a bar), then she's a girlfriend, PERIOD. Calculating how much you spent on dinner/movie that night before sex and then comparing that to how much you would have paid if you'd just gone straight to the bar is NOT the way to treat a real girlfriend.

He's got the right idea, however. Enjoy the relationship while it lasts, but also keep in mind that it could end at any moment.

[f0xxee]

Hey GT (its getting toward Cardie weather, rug up and get some good tyres on that scooter!),

As you know me kinda sorta, you know I am more an optimist that a cynic, you also know I am in a LTR with a ladyboy in LOS, with all the accompanying trimmings. I have to say that to date it is all going well, and Mrs Foxxee is very pleasant to share life with.

I also agree that the cynicism here comes generally from the tunnel vision of the punters. But I think it is unfair to say that the blame lies in male vanity. It would seem those who get hit the hardest in scams are not the egoists but those with an undernourished sense of self worth for what ever reason, who hear "helloo hansum man" and desperately want to believe it. Shysters universally target the insecure, the emotionally bruised and the fragile. Whether the Snake Oil salesman with the new cancer cure from Mexico or Bernie Maddoff or #23 at Cascade, these professional plunderers know instinctively the insecure are easy pickings.
Now to contradict myself entirely:
Those who are vain also get fleeced. They get fleeced because they are easy to please with flattery and ego stroking, but as they primarily are in love with themselves they are not as clingy and desperate and are more likely to walk away.

Your point on why relationships fail is well made and I agree. if you have a couple of failed marriages and relationships behind you in the west there is no reason why they will magically work in the east: unless you actually opened your eyes and learnt something along the way. I don't know that you can blame failure on a lack of sensitivity only. Too easy. How about the fact that humans are prone (all genders) to select partners for all the wrong reasons?

My comments regarding long distance relationships are based on my experience only, so they are not gospel, only opinion. But as one who has worked either in the merchant navy or offshore for 25 years i have found that the game is the same whether the girl at home is a post op in LB towers or a Pre op in Issaan or a girlfriend in Sydney. Long distance relationships are really fucking hard work. The emotional roller coaster of one bad phone call when you are away: drunk dialling nightmares, the times you call and they don't talk or seem evasive, and the way the majority of us do our own heads in with suspicions. I am sure that a %age of the girls you know are genuinely pleased when the Bf calls and are delighted to see them: but even when you do see each other after a long seperation there are changes in the relationship. As I explained to a GF who put up with me working on oil tankers a long time ago... Its like watching a movie and walking out and coming back in an hour later. You know the players but the situations have changed and maybe unfamiliar or unsettling. Fantasies are built up during absenses that lead to dissapointments when reunited... all sorts of shit goes down.

RE "You can take the girl out of the bar... etc". Agree to a point. Some LB's make a concious decision to leave the game, having amassed thier fortunes or having had a gutful of the life. Some are just not cut out for it in the first place. Many move on and settle into happy obscurity with the falang of thier choice. And good luck to them. HOWEVER: Not always so easy. if you have 10 years of feigning love and playing the game it is hard to see men, who in the past have been seen unemotionally as life support systems for a wallet as anything different. if you are conditioned to pout, cry and manipulate to get what you want, how do you unlearn this way of thinking and learn that a relationship is a differnt ball game?

I have three very good friends back home... All are on second or third marriages and all are now in marriages that seem to be sticking. All are married to ex-prostitutes. Why? They reckon there is absolutely "No games" . The girls speak their minds and then some. The girls totally "get" men. And having committed to one man, commit with a vigour which is almost tactile... Going to dinner with this crew is not for the faint hearted.

So it can work. But the ex bar girl has got to want it and she has to see the difference in how the game is played. (and of course the odds are she will fall for the biggest butterfly in Thailand and get crushed and hate men forever after. As stated humans have a great ability to pick wrong.)

OK. Lastly: "Not everyone can up sticks and move to Thailand". Correct. If you are in gaol, in an iron lung, or have acccidently cemented yourself into the new carport annexe you cannot. If however it is really important enough to you, if you want it more than anything in the world you will find a way. Maybe it will take 10 years but you will do it. If you want it bad enough. Many have done so.

Good to talk Naang Fah, (I threw in the concrete yourself to the carport for you... Thought you might still being Bobbette the builder.)

[Naang Faa]

Great post foxxee

Yes i know you're a kinda sorta optimist..

(and i am wearing a cardie 555) ..

I stand by that vanity claim..it's as if every guy thinks if he fails you are bound to fail also-alpha syndrome..If they don't love me they can't possibly love you.

humans are prone (all genders) to select partners for all the wrong reasons?

Sure.but some chose compatibility above wealth & looks.Trophy wives/husbands are not worth
the money/time spent invested them usually.

if you have 10 years of feigning love and playing the game it is hard to see men, who in the past have been seen unemotionally as life support systems for a wallet as anything different. if you are conditioned to pout, cry and manipulate to get what you want, how do you unlearn this way of thinking and learn that a relationship is a differnt ball game?

Again, any decent bar girl worth her salt can separate work from pleasure/leasure and love.

it is really important enough to you, if you want it more than anything in the world you will find a way. Maybe it will take 10 years but you will do it. If you want it bad enough. Many have done so

Of course,that's why they persevere..


Thanks for the ready-mix concrete na....but the house is done,and i did it all myself

x

[JaiDee]

Foxxee ..... to be honest it seems like you focus too MUCH on relationships, try to achieve such with too much regularity whether local or long distance, and then think something is wrong with the rest of us or that we have somehow gotten burned along the way because we are not in one; have you ever considered the fact that a lot of us guys don't WANT a relationship, of any kind? It's great for Socrates that he has found true love with what seems to be a nice girl, but for guys like me and many others who read here 17 DAYS with the same person, forget 17 months, seems like a nightmare scenario now matter how cool the person is.


    This board is filled with all types......short-timers, long-timers, lovers, loners {hello!}, serious relationship types, as well as guys who just want to shag as many girls as they can in as short a time as they can on a holiday, etc.... still others will go to thailand often or live there, same as Soc and Snick and Stogie, et al, and find one to stay with and be happy with her. Good for them if that's what they want, but your posts seem to pigeon-hole us all into the same ''we must be in a successful relationship to be happy'' mode when it's really not that cut and dry.

[f0xxee]

HI GT,

As always I retain my geniuine affection for you. Enjoy the cardie and congrats on the house!

[Naang Faa]

(doug @ Nov. 05 2009,01:22) Naang Faa may have a rose-colored image of her ladyboy friends, but that's because she's a peer, not a cow to be milked.  She's also in a position where the consequences of associating with ladyboys are not as severe as they are for some guys.  A sponsorship gone awry can literally destroy a guy's life in some cases, so her opinions of her "sweet gal friends" is a bit too optimistic in my opinion.  

Its a business Doug like any other.. Successful businessmen & women
very rarely get to where they are without being ruthless...
Then they pop off home to their loving wife/husband....no difference.
x

[f0xxee]

(JaiDee @ Nov. 05 2009,08:41) Foxxee ..... to be honest it seems like you focus too MUCH on relationships, try to achieve such with too much regularity whether local or long distance, and then think something is wrong with the rest of us or that we have somehow gotten burned along the way because  we are not in one; have you ever considered the fact that a lot of us guys don't WANT a relationship, of any kind? It's great for Socrates that he has found true love with what seems to be a nice girl, but for guys like me and many others who read here 17 DAYS with the same person, forget 17 months, seems like a nightmare scenario now matter how cool the person is.


    This board is filled with all types......short-timers, long-timers, lovers, loners {hello!}, serious relationship types, as well as guys who just want to shag as many girls as they can in as short a time as they can on a holiday, etc.... still others will go to thailand often or live there, same as Soc and Snick and Stogie, et al, and find one to stay with and be happy with her. Good for them if that's what they want, but your posts seem to pigeon-hole us all into the same ''we must be in a successful relationship to be happy'' mode when it's really not that cut and dry.

Hi JaiDee,

No mate not really... Although I can understand why you should think that.

I understand where you are coming from though. I have been writing about relationships a lot lately for sure: but then again the current climate of the forum is dictating that with all the "luv gone wrong" threads. And I am in a relationship and learning all the time. And the thing I am learning mostly is that ladyboy or GG, thai, aussie or american the game is pretty much the same at a gut level.

PLease note I have never criticised you or anyone else for butterflying: for a start anyone that knows me (and all my exes) would know I was totally full fo shit if I did. I spent the best part of 10 years butterflying and wouldn't change it for the world. And just because It's not my thing right now, doesn't mean that I look down my nose at those that enjoy it. I enjoy reading the threads from Juri, Burenboy, Ernesto and the rest very much. They remind me of the pure unadulterated fun of it all. But lets face it: as a retired butterfly I cannot really add much to those conversations can I? But with advice on relationships I have something to add because I have failed miserably as others have failed and for the same reasons of being a total mug, and succeeded (so far... no guarantees) as well.
If my current relationship should fail I know that I would be straight back into the game, and no sooking on here either!

All I am stating generally is what you yourself have stated:

1) Dont go for the long distance/sponsorship gig. (Remember my comment about not taking goofy home from disneyland?)
and
2) if you want it to work, move here!

Cheers JaiDee!

[f0xxee]

Just as a PS to the above:
The high season has started. All the Mongers will be back in LOS, the bars will be pumping, love gone wrong will be forgotten and the forum will again return to the happy sound of slapping meat and "hello hansum man"!

[JaiDee]

(f0xxee @ Nov. 05 2009,09:00) PLease note I have never criticised you or anyone else for butterflying

Oh, I know .....and trust me, the last thing I am these days is a butterfly!!

I mean sheeesh, I spent 2+ months in Thailand last winter and never even slept with a Thai person once ...  who else on this board can claim THAT  

      Right, the 'relationships gone wrong' atmosphere going on now is a  downer, so if stories from guys like you and Soc are more upbeat and happy and you have GOOD ones going on, that's fantastic!  Despite being a cynic half the time, I would seriously never want to stand in the way of someone falling in/staying in love for any amount of time....I'd always applaud it and hope the best for anyone who enjoys that lifestyle.

   Fact is however, many of us don't ..... being able to travel where and when I want to, eat and sleep when I choose, watch sports, listen to my music, go to the beach, etc.... without running it by anyone is a luxury I  can never see myself giving up just so I can have a few hours of nookie per week [or even per day] and the ability to share ''love'', with another person.  I am happiest alone, have made peace with that, and will probably always be such and with absolutely no complaints.

 But that's just me......we all have different tastes and interests and that's what makes life [and this message board] so interesting.

[f0xxee]

(JaiDee @ Nov. 05 2009,09:22)  But that's just me......we all have different tastes and interests and that's what makes life [and this message board] so interesting.

Agreed sir.

[JaiDee]

It's actually great news for Soc that he has found someone he likes, I know the old moderator here [you know, someone named Stogie??] is in the same boat also so good for them.  Again, if 2 people can fall in love and things all work out that's awesome news, because it's too often that we only hear about the other side of things and the 2 stories from last week [especially that whole Chompoo deal -shudder....] were pretty eye-opening.

[f0xxee]

Stogie who? He is so like, yesterdays news.....

[f0xxee]

On another note I wonder how many guys who are in relationships with ladyboys read the Chompoo story and immediately checked their missus is on the up and up? Its very fucking easyto let something like the Chompoo episode erode your trust. (I admit to giving Mrs foxxee a grilling over slow burning coals after reading the website....)

[kahuna]

Not only is Mrs Socrates personable, sweet, funny, and etc., etc., etc...she is without question one of
THE MOST PASSABLE ladyboys I have ever met...She easily...and I truly mean easily...fools other ladyboys...

You got one of the few good ones...

Cheers to you both...

[elburro]

X3 hope to see you guys soon maybe in december or jan. stuck here dealing with the ex witch myself. El Burro