How To Treat a Ladyboy - Hints and Tips

[doug]

(kahuna @ Mar. 23 2009,09:07) ...There is usually no hot water guys and an Asian squat toilet...Most new guys would be in shock...and not just from the cold water splashed on their balls and cock...And for the newbie it can be considerably more damgerous then a short-time room...

I guess I've been here so long that I've forgotten that stuff ain't "normal". But then again, any Accidental Tourist who can't tolerate stuff outside his "norm" for a night doesn't belong in Thailand in the first place!

That said, the apartments of most of the girls I've been with have been nicer than my own place, so maybe we just go for a different type of girl.

I like a bit of class (Stogie would call it "boring predictability, but it's the same thing) in my girls, and I'm pretty good at sniffing that out.

Most of my narrow escapes happened when I was still a wet-behind-the-ears newbie, and now that I'm a seasoned veteran, I rarely get caught in a sticky situation. From your comments, it seems like you've got the knack as well. I think any long-timer eventually develops an aversion to "drama", even the enjoyable kind, because it's just so tiresome.

But you're right, a newbie might be better off bringing girls back to his nice safe hotel room until he gets his sea legs and learns how to weed out the freaks.

(Stogie @ Mar. 23 2009,07:10) Doug's answers do seem more extreme but then, he's got a mountain of shit to climb out of if he's caught with his pants down, than most of us.

Well, not exactly. My girlfriend's pretty cool with it, so I wouldn't be in any trouble in that department (unlike a lot of the guys who are married but still come here). Actually, it's more for her sake that I'm so paranoid about discretion. Thai culture is extremely conservative and judgmental. There is a huge difference between "tolerance" and "acceptance". They tolerate the sex trade here, but that doesn't necessarily mean they like it. And openly participating in it is a HUGE taboo socially.

Which leads me to this point:

(kahuna @ Mar. 23 2009,07:10) I don't think my "front" is extreme...But I do find Doug's to be very extreme...

See, that's kind of my point. It's difficult to get guys like you to understand what I'm talking about because you don't even realize just how EXTREME your own viewpoint is.

In any "normal" society, a guy who openly played around with numerous transsexual prostitutes would be shunned. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just stating a fact. And you know it.

You're on the fringe of the fringe and yet you don't even realize it. You think you're "front" isn't extreme, but that's only relative to THIS FORUM. Here, you're "normal", but "out there", you're a freak and pervert. Period.

Now, some guys are lucky enough to be able to say, "fuck it, I don't care what people think, I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want with my life." And they do. But make no mistake about it. They suffer consequences, even if they don't realize it or care about it, there is a COST to this lifestyle.

Some of us would like to avoid paying that cost. Get it?

Heck, why do you think so many guys come halfway around the world to pay for sex? When you factor in the cost of the plane ticket and hotel room the sex is not THAT much cheaper than what you could find back home (although admittedly the girls are MUCH hotter than the fat hairy drag queens back home).

They come for the illusion of anonymity and the thrill of doing something extremely naughty (propositioning prostitutes and hanging around with prostitutes) in public. How many times have you seen some old fart with a shit-eating grin sitting on the Skytrain with his arm wrapped around two skankily-dress tranny whores? He's totally getting a kick out of that, and you know it.

So here, on these forums and in PARTS of Thailand, we are "normal" and your view is NOT extreme.

But "out there", in Normal-People-Land (ie. Reality)... a guy who wants to keep his tranny-whoring ways on the down-low? That's pretty "normal", actually (not the tranny-whoring, but the desire to conceal it).

(PigDogg @ Mar. 23 2009,07:10) Ladyboys who work in beer bars that are mostly gg tend to be low key types who just want to blend in.

Those are the best kind, imho. Perhaps it's time to give Pattaya another go. Personally I can't stand walking around in any place where there are tourists because the Thai people in those areas are unbelieveably RUDE (especially by Thai standards, which I find myself adopting more and more).

But if it means finding a couple of nice, low-key feminine ladyboys, I'd definitely put up with the extraneous tourist-bleeding bullshit for a little while.

[Stogie]

But if it means finding a couple of nice, low-key feminine ladyboys, I'd definitely put up with the extraneous tourist-bleeding bullshit for a little while...

What a guy!

[cancer12]

there is nothing more important but to make her feel how special she is... in words and as well as in actions.
a ladyboy/ts/tg is not a man nor a woman, so she should be treated in both ways a man and a woman are treated.

but you know... ladyboys have different personalities, just learn first what personality she has and figure what kind of treatment will fit her personality....... or more..... what kind of treatment she deserves...

[cancer12]

im sorry, if i'm kind of participating in this forum... this is actually the topic that i think every men here should be contributing,,,, their points, experiences, beliefs or whatsoever..

i would first have to say that what DOUG said is very true.... that it is 'normal' for the people here and once u step out to the real world, it is something that is being ostracized or condemned by most people which is just based from the social constructs formed from the social standards set by various social institutions ie., church, government,school.... and it is true that ostracism is shown in different manners,
there are different public responses to this kind of social deviance even worse than those words such as pervert, immoral... sometimes men who are caught or proven active in this kind of doing lose some privileges, they lose opportunities, and for those people in white collar jobs/business they lose trust, credibility, their name, respect, which is obviously unjust.

but we are human, we are given the will, that is how we are different from animals, because we have the ability to think and make decisions, and whatever decisions we make, there are always consequences whether good or bad. you guys know from the very beginning that from the social standards set by society, going out with ladyboys, dating ladyboys, having sex with ladyboys, and making a serious relationship with ladyboys are deviant., and therefore a discriminating or condemning responses from the public are should be expected... if you are not ready to be man enough,if you think that you cant be able to stand this responses.. then why will you try it.

IF YOU TRY IT.... MAKE SURE YOU WILL BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO FACE WHATEVER CONSEQUENCES IT MAY BRING UP. BE PROUD OF IT, AND IF YOU THINK THERE IS NOTHING WRONG ABOUT IT... FORGET ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE SAY, ENJOY YOUR LIFE, HAVE FUN, LET THEM THINK WHAT THEY WANNA THINK ABOUT YOU, LET THEM SAY WHAT THEY WANNA SAY, YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM, BUT YOU ARE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELF AND FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

[sev7en]

(Stogie @ Mar. 23 2009,18:31)

But if it means finding a couple of nice, low-key feminine ladyboys, I'd definitely put up with the extraneous tourist-bleeding bullshit for a little while...

What a guy!  

Is it safe to assume that doug will be invited as a guest of honour to the upcoming convention? I can´t think of a better guestspeaker cept kahuna, but he  probably won´t be around.

[PanzerPorn]

Ahmadinejad whit one of his best "We don't have any gays"speeches could be perfect.

[kahuna]

(doug @ Mar. 23 2009,18:26) It's difficult to get guys like you to understand what I'm talking about because you don't even realize just how EXTREME your own viewpoint is.

Please excuse my Swedish and Italian sons for interrupting...wankers both...But I love them both...BTW boys...Your Irish brother Seamus says hello...

Doug...I do understand what you are saying...You and others have made that clear...

I simply don't agree that it is the best advice to give to the new guys...

Whose opinion and practice is the most extreme in Thai terms is debatable...and not really the subject of this thread...

New visitors need to experience everything that they are able to during their short visits here...

My comments are only meant to temper yours...

[jimslim]

(kahuna @ Mar. 23 2009,21:21) New visitors need to experience everything that they are able to during their short visits here...

True , and what type of experience we have is down to our judgements or lack of them in certain situations .

Sure on the law of averages we can all get the occasional nutter , but its funny how the same people always have the same problems yet others rarely have any .

Common sense is sometimes not that common

[doug]

(kahuna @ Mar. 23 2009,21:21) Whose opinion and practice is the most extreme in Thai terms is debatable...and not really the subject of this thread...

isn't it?

we're talking about how to treat THAI ladyboys, aren't we?

how extreme your viewpoint is relative to Thai culture would seem to be a pretty relevent topic.

let's face it. most farang never step outside the sukhumvit/pattaya/patong bubble when they come here, so there's no point in them learning Thai culture because it doesn't exist in "Disneyland".

What you see in Nana is most definitely NOT normal in Thailand.

That said, a lot of short-timers do make the transition into long-timers (or at least regulars), and so it makes sense not to burn any bridges during your first few stays.

Not to mention the fact that the "outrageous" (to Thai eyes) behavior of all you short-timers has a big impact on how Thai people treat all those of us who settle here. They don't see us as separate individuals. We all get lumped into one big group.

So it's actually in my best interest to counsel a bit of "modesty" and "discretion" for newbies, because collectively it makes everyone's lives a bit easier (including the newbie's should he ever choose to settle down here).

If I had a baht for every time a Thai person relayed to me a bunch of totally inaccurate stereotypes about what farang are "really" like, I'd be a rich man.

But I don't blame them, though, because the "normal" farang in Thailand is a fringe-of-the-social-fringe freak back home. So it's easy to see why they get all the wrong ideas about us.

So what does that have to do with how to treat ladyboys? See, that's the thing. You should treat Thai ladyboys in exactly the same way you treat Thailand.

If you come here with no interest (beyond self-interest) in the REAL people that live here (and their mores, norms, society, history and culture), then why on earth would you want to "get involved" emotionally with someone from that culture (even if she's an outcast living on the fringe of it).

That makes NO sense at all. Hence my advice about treating these girls as if they were made of plutonium. If your attitude about the country is: "I don't give a toss what these people think, I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want", then you're living inside the "Disneyland bubble" along Sukhumvit Road (or Walking Street). And if you're living inside that bubble, then it makes NO sense at all to try to have a "normal" relationship with an "employee" of that wildside theme park.

If, on the other hand, these girls interest you in an emotional way (or you'd like to try thinking of them as people for a change), then you'd better goddamn believe it's important to learn their culture (and what they consider extreme or "normal").

Because once you take an interest in these girls as people, you're stepping outside the "bubble". You're getting off the theme park ride and re-entering reality. And in REALITY, the things you do have very real consequences. Especially in a socially-orientated country like Thailand.

You can get NOTHING done in this country unless people LIKE you. Period. That's a fact. So this isn't just a matter of brown-nosing snotty Thais in return for a few favors. Your reputation and public image impacts EVERY aspect of your life here, in ways that Westerners can't even begin to comprehend (until they've lived here long enough to recognize it).

You may think this stuff doesn't apply to newbies, but every veteran on these forums was once a newbie. Getting off on the right foot in this country can have a big impact down the road, trust me.

[blonde_havoc]

Just to lighten the mood a bit...

How I treat my ladyboy gf: Very well so she sucks my cock at the end of the night.

End of story.

[sev7en]

(doug @ Mar. 24 2009,02:30)  So this isn't just a matter of brown-nosing snotty Thais in return for a few favors.

That´s why i would never wanna live here.
What´s your excuse?

[manarak]

(Stogie @ Mar. 23 2009,16:00) a horny MonkeyMan (ahem!)

LOL

[doug]

(sev7en @ Mar. 24 2009,06:47)

(doug @ Mar. 24 2009,02:30)  So this isn't just a matter of brown-nosing snotty Thais in return for a few favors.

That´s why i would never wanna live here.  
What´s your excuse?

I said it ISN'T just a matter of brown-nosing snotty Thais in return for a few favors.

A lot of guys get to that stage of "understanding" about Thai culture and they think they've got the whole place figured out.

Just grease everything with money and show some token respect to a local Big PooBah, and that's all it will take to get by.

That's an extremely limited (and limiting) view of this country and it's no wonder that so many farang never seem to get ahead here.  It's not that the odds are stacked against you, it's that you don't even bother to learn the game.

This, of course, has very little to do with ladyboys (or how to treat them), but a more general observation about how to treat Thailand and it's people.  

You can visit occassionally and spend 90% of your time in some seedy adult-themed Disneyland, and you'll have a fucking AWESOME time (fucking, of course).  But don't ever pretend that you're going to gain some understanding of the culture or its people.

For example, my girlfriend and I are total freaks, and we probably have just as much fun (or more) as any sex tourist.  The difference is, we don't broadcast it to the entire neighborhood.  That allows me to remain in good standing with the locals and so I see a side of Thailand that very few tourists ever experience.

The reason many ladyboys get marginalized in Thai society isn't due to homophobia (it does exist here, but nowhere near to the degree it does in the States).  Rather, they are marginalized because they commit the "sin" of being "flamboyant" about their sexuality.  In Thailand, nobody gives a shit if you're gay, but being openly promiscuous is simply intolerable.

I have a few "normal" ladyboy friends and they all work in large companies or own their own businesses.  But apart from overly large hands and an adam's apple, you'd never know they aren't genetic girls.  They don't strut about like flaming drag queens, broadcasting the "goods" they have to "offer".

There's a couple of farang guys living down the road from me and I see them in the market occassionally.  They're alright dudes and they don't bring home bar-girls, but they do go out to the clubs now and then, and if they meet a willing girl, they have no qualms about bringing her back for a one-night-stand shag.  Back in the States, nobody would even blink at such behavior.  But here, omg, it's a topic of DAILY conversation.

I've talked with those guys and I get the impression that they're like you.  They think they've got the country all figured out, however since they can't speak Thai, they have no idea that they are being ostracized and marginalized by their neighbors.  All they see is smiling faces every day in the market, but what they don't understand is that Thai people have TWELVE kinds of smiles, and the one they are getting is "yim heang" (the dry smile) or maybe "yim mee lessanai" (the wicked smile), but not "yim thak thaai" (the polite smile), and certainly not "yim cheun chom" (the admiring smile).

In other words, these guys are committing the same "sin" as those flamboyant P4P ladyboys.  It's not WHAT they do that people find bothersome, it's the fact that they do it OPENLY.  You bring a ladyboy home and nobody is going to think twice about it.  But if you bring a different ladyboy home tomorrow, whoah-boy, that'll send the neighbors into a tizzy.

Thai people are very reserved and inhibited when it comes to speaking their minds, but that doesn't mean they are silent.  Much of what Thai people say is said through body language, and if you're not adept at reading it (or if you're unlucky enough to have Aspergers Syndrome), you're missing most of the meaning.

Getting back on topic, what I'm trying to say is that you're never going to know how to treat ladyboys if you don't know how to treat Thai people in general.  And you're never going to figure out Thai people if you don't get the hell off Sukhumvit Road or Walking Street.

Anyone who's ever read Larry Niven's Ringworld books will kind of understand what I'm getting at.  In that series, there's a species called the Puppeter's who are very reserved and cautious, so much so that space-flight is seen as an unacceptably dangerous risk to any "normal" Puppeter.  Therefore, every space-faring Puppeter that humanity encounters is, by the standards of his own culture, barking mad.  They seem perfectly "normal" to us (even a bit cowardly by our standards), but they are, in fact, insane.

Likewise, P4P Thai ladyboys often seem perfectly normal to us, but that's by OUR standards.  By Thai standards, they're either nuts or low-lifes.  And you can't simply dismiss that by saying "Well, Western culture is superior to Thai culture, so if someone is 'normal' by our standards then that's the 'right' way to look at them". That's grossly underestimating the power that culture, peer-pressure, and society has in shaping a person's "self-image" and actions.  Someone who is seen as a low-life nutjob by society as a whole will often ACT like a low-life nutjob (even if that seems perfectly "normal" to you, you're just not picking up on the warning signs).

Which is why I advise newbies to keep ladyboys at arms-length (when it comes to your privacy and REAL life), until they get better at judging the character of a Thai person in a Thai way.  Have your fun, but don't get involved.

We're all pretty good at spotting thieves, low-lifes, scumbags and lunatics within our own culture (we've all listened to some barstool guru pontificate and thought to ourselves, "this guy is full of shit.")  But here, we're a little out of our element and it's a good idea to take it easy at first until you get better at spotting the Thai version of "trouble".

[Foggy]

(PigDogg @ Mar. 23 2009,12:05)       Ladyboys who work in beer bars that are mostly gg tend to be low key types who just want to blend in.

To me that's a plus.        

My thoughts too and always enjoy the look on the GG's faces when you fancy the only (gay in the village) LB in the bar.. ha ha...

I tend to treat them as if they are the only one of importance and give them my full attention for the period Im in there shopping basket.
Any annoying mannerisums or personality flaws that become over bearing and evident during our time together will lead me to a hassle free, as is posssible, exit therefore allowing me to return to the bar another time..

Always pays to be calm not matter what the situation in Thai... Bring a second tongue to bit if you have too..

[Torurot]

Jimslim said:
>>Common sense is sometimes not that common

Unfortunately there is a category labeled the "clueless & unaware". No amount of words will temper their innate stupidity. Other sometimes erroneously call them "accident prone".