Nana Plaza has got five years left, tops...

[stogie bear]

Cambodia... The NEW Land Of Smiles!

[rossco]

RoadRunner - we should meet up and discuss "the price of fish" - while it is still cheap!

The Thai economy is so different to the Western view - it will take education, education, eduction for them to move up into 1st world society. I have been to Issan many times and am always amazed at the cost/standard of living. The kids leave school at 12/14 because the family cannot afford to pay. This is families whose monthly Electric bill is only 50 Baht = 1.5 USD. It is sad.

Rice farmer gets 10 bat a kilo - sale price in UK (Sainsburys/Tesco etc) is 220 Baht - who is kidding who?

Rice: Farmer - Processing Plant - Thai Distributor - International retail.

I did not intend this thread to become a socio/economic discussion but the "sex tourist" is unaware of the underlying Government direction/Economics etc etc.

I really like Thailand - the people, the food and the simplicity but my take is THAT is going to change.

[Road Runner]

(rossco @ Mar. 08 2008,10:18) I really like Thailand - the people, the food and the simplicity but my take is THAT is going to change.

Me Too! But you are right it has to change and it will change.

I'm no fan of Taksin but at least he saw how Singapore and Malaysia did it and started improving the infrastructure of the country.
If any of you go outside BKK or Pattaya look and see how many new factories there are springing up out in the country.

But I don't understand why he did not try to sort out the education system.

In Singapore in the early 80's they spent something like double the money per head of population on education than most other countries in the world.

Singapore now have one of the highest earnings per capita in the world.

RR.

[stogie bear]

Successive (and quickly changing) governments rarely have a real and sustained positive impact on economics and commerce.

It was because Thaksin was a businessman that things changed and it was because he was a businessman that politics felled (and failed) him.

[rxpharm]

Actually what felled Thaksin was the amount of corruption became even more blatant under his reign - it didn't really have much to do with his business background. He also developed the feeling of impunity - that he could do anything he wanted without repercussion. Not a good attitude to take as leader of a democratic elected government.

The current government is showing the same signs, so the whole cycle may be repeated yet again. However this is getting

A new thread in the Fishbox or Life and Living in Thailand may be in order!

[stogie bear]

Not a good attitude to take as leader of a democratic elected government...

Yet he has been welcomed back with open arms at best and disinterest at worst!

Come on... It's all about how many bottles of Coca Cola you can pour outside a voting booth and NOT about collective impressions of integrity.

Give me a break!

[jadeite]

(pacman @ Mar. 04 2008,19:47) I would like to share a drink with jadeite, perhaps you can tell us a little of yourself. Ethnicity, what brings you to LOS, anything else?

Me, well I am just a guy who fell in love with Thailand before discovering the girls/ladyboys and love it even more after finding them. I have been to the 4 corners of the country and many other surrounding countries over the years. I am from USA by way of Germany.  My Thai is decent, but not yet at the level I would like. I tend to associate with Thai's who say I am more like a Thai than a foreigner. I rarely associate with foreigners though on those occasions always enjoy it.

Don't get me wrong, I would not put it past the government to shut all the gogo's in a snap of the finger! Just saying I haven't seen any signs (recently anyway) things are going that direction or even close, though it is always a possibility. There are officials who must recognize the value of having it, though that would not stop them from shooting themselves in the foot.

Consider the sex industry profit margins are almost 100%. Guys pour massive amounts to completely unskilled girls that cost nothing for them to provide. Then there are all the random bank accounts up country getting occasional foreign deposits from sponsors which is surely very known to the powers that be! It's not like a factory or farm where the GDP may be bigger, but the cost of goods / margins are minimal. Pouring fresh money from other countries into the Thai economy through the sex industry must be an absolutely massive upside for them not to mention all the derivative spending it generates.

[stogie bear]

:spoton:

(Bugger... I thought that by now we would have had a 'spot on' smiley!)

Fucking wankers that run this place...

[jadeite]

Oh, as far as the new place called Lum Sing in Patpong, I forgot to go last time and it might be a while before I do! But it seems to be a Maw Lum style place. What is that you may ask? Besides being big in Isaan, there are many such venues scattered around Bangkok that foreigners rarely adventure to. It is a night of isaan folk music, singers and dancers in extravagent silk, dancing by performers and the audience, comedy shows, and a good isaan menu. For example, music and style similar to this YouTube Video, but probably on a smaller scale. Likely to be girls and also ladyboys at such places, particularly so for this one.

[friedfrunk]

... But I love Isaan music! Mor Lam and Lam Sing are awesome. I had a great time in Bangkok's E-san Tawandaeng. I've previously seen some vids of that Jonny Olsen dude playing the khaen. He's got some skills.

[Torurot]

Rossco, I get your point, but things in Britain are outrageously expensive. Where I am, 9+flying hrs from BKK 1kg Basmati is 53 Bhat vs your 220 bhat. 5x vs your 22 times.

[surferboy]

(jadeite @ Mar. 03 2008,20:50) Doug you are just too long winded for me to get through your posts

Yes this is what I was thinking.

[rossco]

(Torurot @ Mar. 09 2008,19:09) Rossco, I get your point, but things in Britain are outrageously expensive. Where I am, 9+flying hrs from BKK 1kg Basmati is 53 Bhat vs your 220 bhat. 5x vs your 22 times.

Tourot we both made an error - looking at shopping on line (they will not deliver here!): Thai rice NOT Basmati

Product information for Sainsbury's Thai Rice, Fragrant 1kg
Sainsbury's Thai Rice, Fragrant 1kg

£1.66/unit
£1.66/kg

Product information for Tilda Thai Rice, Jasmine 500g
Tilda Thai Rice, Jasmine 500g

£1.65/unit
£3.30/kg

166p = 108 Baht, 330p = 215 Baht
So the multiplier is only between 10 and 20 times

[doug]

(stogie bear @ Mar. 08 2008,19:10) Cambodia... The NEW Land Of Smiles!  

That's almost certainly going to be true within 10 to 20 years.

And with the baht soaring against the dollar, that only hastens the transition.

For us locals, a 1500baht ST five years ago is a 1500baht ST today, same as always. But for a tourist, a $34 ST five years ago has gone up to a $48 ST today.

Still cheap, but when you consider that everything else has gone up as well (hotels, cab fares, dining out, etc...), ALL tourists, including sex-tourists are going to find Thailand a more expensive destination.

Which is fine. Plenty of places (like Hong Kong and Tokyo) are expensive, but they still attract loads of tourists. Just a different KIND of tourist.

People looking for cheap holidays are going to have to start looking elsewhere, because the Thai baht isn't likely to go down against the dollar any time soon (especially if the US recession drags out).

Take a look at what's happening out on many of the islands. Many of the cheap backpacker beach bungalows have upgraded to resorts and spas that charge 3000 baht a night or more.

So the kind of guys who want to pay $30 to $50 for a fuck are not going to want to shell out $200 to $400 a night for hotel rooms, food and taxis, and as the baht continues to rise against the dollar, that's what your per diem is going to be in Bangkok pretty soon.

Thai businessmen know this, they aren't dumb.

So people are taking a look at shitholes like Nana and saying to themselves, "that area is going to dry up soon". So they are slowly but surely buying up property around those areas and opening clubs, restaurants and businesses that will appeal to the NEW KIND of tourist who can afford spending half-a-G every day when they are on holiday.

The sex industry will remain in Thailand, of course. At the very least, us locals will keep it going, because like I said OUR costs have not really increased much in the last five years.

But we aren't enough to sustain a prime piece of real estate like Nana.


Oh, and by the way, anyone who's ever done business in Thailand knows that Thais DON'T GIVE A FUCK about rental income. Period.

They buy or sell. They HATE renting.

I've seen properties in my neighborhood that have been empty for years. I've even tried to rent some of them, but the owners show absolutely no interest in renting. They are rich, old Thais and they don't want to be bothered with the hassles of having tenants.

The way it works is that some member of their family will tell them, "buy this property, it's a good investment", and they will. Then they'll sit on it and let it rot for 10 years until they can sell it for a healthy profit.

You can try to explain to them that they are losing MILLIONS in rental income and they'll just say, "mai ben rai, karb". They are so ridiculously rich that a few million baht in rental income isn't worth their time.

It's one of the most frustrating attitudes I've encountered in Thailand and it drives me up the wall when I see an empty, decaying property sitting on PRIME land. I'd jump at the chance to rent it, but the just can't be arsed to bother. Half the time, they don't even bother advertising it for sale, because they have some insane number in their head that they THINK they should get for it in 5 years, and they don't want to be bothered fielding more realistic bids on what it might actually be worth TODAY.

I bring this up to point out to you guys that anyone who thinks that "rental income" is going to be a factor in Nana's future just doesn't know Thai people at all.

The DON'T CARE about the rental income. Trust me. They don't. Not. At. All.

So if someone makes them a good offer on the land, they will sell it in a heartbeat. It doesn't matter how much money the tenants have poured into their business (like in Soi Cowboy). If some development group came along and offered to buy the land, they'd bulldoze Cowboy (and they might even give people enough notice to pack up their shit and get out... maybe).

Nana could be bringing in millions in rent every month, and it just wouldn't matter. If a buyer willing to meet their insane price appears (or if it becomes politically/socially convienent for them), they'll sell.

Patpong would require the purchase of a whole neighborhood, so unless Donald Trump comes to Bangkok, it's unlikely that someone is going to take that area away from the Patpong family. But like I said, Nana is a different story.

Prime location. Multiple land owners. A strong baht depressing the Cheap Charlie tourist trade. And a government keen to clean up Thailand's international interest and also convert the area on to a TAX-PAYING venture.

Seriously, do you really think Nana Plaza will last 5 years?

We'll just have to bump this thread then and see, won't we....

[kahuna]

And who gives a rat's ass except for you...

I was there last night for the fourth time in 2 months...I oviously ain't no NEP or Thai R.E. or econ expert...But I'd wager it won't take 5 years for Cascades  to be on the ground floor if not the basement...The place is falling down anyway...London Bridge...