Has the bubble burst?

[stogie bear]

What happened while I was away?

Lita's Bar has closed... (forever!) - 131 is a girly bar... Minou in Sunee is all boys... Goldfingers has disappeared... The entire block that XXX used to inhabit will be a car park by the end of February!!!

Obsessions came and opened up a bar for the insanely rich or stupid... but Pook's bar looks promising...

The landscape of Pattaya ladyboy venues changes faster than a Hema cabaret dancing girl!

But does any of this really even matter? These warm and cuddly creatures are seemingly everywhere in Pattaya so do we even need bars to find them?

[rxpharm]

One of our senior board members predicted that some of the bars would close - but it turns out there are more casualties then he imagined - although one may be not due to economics.

It goes to show - that economic forces dictate that there is not enough demand to keep that many lb bars in business. While lbs are more popular than before, it hasn't hit the demand necessary to keep a lot of bars open.

On my Dec. visit I dropped into Cascades to check on the contest and there were less than 10 punters in at the time. I also dropped into Obsessions to say hi to a friend of my companion for the evening, and while busier than Cascades, it sill was not even 30% full.

But then you are right - who needs a bar to find these lovelies?

[rossco]

Certainly the face of Pattaya is changing yet again.

Didi' also declined last year

Looking at the economics - a bar (club rather than an open beer bar) has standing costs of:
Rent 20 to 50K depending on location and lease deal (rent + Key money)
Staff - 2500 for member of staff and 8 for cashier
Stock
Utilities
Repairs
Sundries
Total about 70/80K per month - excluding payments to BIB which are unpredictable

So if beer is sold for 75 baht the bar needs to sell 1000 beers a month to break even - 30 beer sales per night - before showing any kind of profit or making a living.

The Thai mentality is strange - when times are hard they increase rentals and prices. I know one venue was told that their rent was going up from 40K to 60K!

One comment, from a number of bar owners, over a period of time, is that many customers will do anything to avoid paying a BF - this applies to GG's and LB's. The bar owners know, who these "cheap charlie's" are, but are powerless to do anything.

Last month saw a guy arguing over a ST - he had paid the BF but assumed that it included everything - I wonder what he gets for his 6 Euros in Euroland.

If the majority of customers do this then a bar owner cannot survive. So if you want to see venues survive, play by the house rules and support the venues. If they close we will be left with kerb crawling down Beach Road.

If LB's are not in a bar then they are left wide open to hassle and arrest by BIB - as happened in March 2007.

I prefer a comfortable bar where you can sit and enjoy a drink and chat to the staff. I hope the bar scene does survive as it is - it will our loss if it does not.

[stogie bear]

(rossco @ Jan. 19 2008,16:04) I prefer a comfortable bar where you can sit and enjoy a drink and chat to the staff...

So do I... So do a lot of us...but there isn't a place in Pattaya that is anything like The Guess Bar. I'm afraid smokey bars with plastic furniture don't cut it and I won't be staying in noisy boozers just so bar owners can 'break even!'

You raise a lot of good points, rossco. It will be interesting to see how this works out coming into the next 'low season.'

People don't want to pay bar fines because they don't understand why they have to.

And in Pattaya the bars are so haphazard with their hiring practices and staff control that there isn't any real reason to pay them. In fact only Stringfellows has a real handle on the staff issue.

[Guest]

(rossco @ Jan. 19 2008,17:04) One comment, from a  number of bar owners, over a period of time, is that many customers will do anything to avoid paying a BF - this applies to GG's and LB's.  The bar owners  know, who these "cheap charlie's" are, but are powerless to do anything.

But what about the guys that doesn´t want their cock grabbed and being ordered to buy a drink and a lady drink the first 20 secs in the bar and then asked 30 times to go up in the shabby ST-room?
I collect phonenumbers,so i can call a lb any time of the day/night. Few occations the girls has implied i do this to avoid BF. That´s 13 euros and i hope i can afford that.

Last night in LaBamba i asked a new girl for her number and she said she can´t give out because she can get fired. Wtf?? This is the first bar that has happened in. I can´t believe LaBamba have this policy, it´s not exactly the leading ladyboybar in Thailand.

And rossco, cheap charlies? Should we really go there?

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Jan. 19 2008,16:22) Minou in Sunee is all boys...

No , that was just for 3 days. They(same owner) had to put the boys there due to some problem with their boybar. It´s all femboys again, SB, don´t worry.

[stogie bear]

Phew!

[Snick]

You forgot to mention that during the same period Tornado went from a 'nothing' to a great LB bar, and Sunisa on soi 7 is also very promising ( from 1 LB to 4 ).

I thinks this is a case of the more things change the more they stay the same, the bars may change but there will always be half a dozen or so good choices and plenty of LB scattered around.

ps. I also heard about some new LB places in Nakula - gotta check those out some time.

[Guest]

To me this is a good question with a thousand answers . Maybe one answer if i may - what type of girl would earn more money - a freelancer or a bar girl and why ? Sorry i should have said answer a question with another question . What i mean to say is-- if demand for ladyboys are on the up why are so many bars closing down ? is it just just people being gullable opening bars as im sure all these people have worked damned hard to get themsevles in the posistion to open a bar but maybe a bit nieave of the consequences . Maybe some punters prefer L/B bars as at least there is come back if anything untoward happens . Saftey is another aspect as well as having a bit of smalltalk over a beer just to break the ice, or maybe another punter just simply cant be bothered or other reasons (friends or just to shy) or simply cant be bothered with formalities of buying drinks and just looking to empty their balls with a ladyboy regardles of any consequences a quick spash n dash kinda thing. Dunno if this makes any sense but there you go

[stogie bear]

What i mean to say is-- if demand for ladyboys are on the up why are so many bars closing down?

Most of these changes have been brought about by circumstances that are NOT economic. As Snick points out there are ready replacements springing up all over Pattaya.

But it's a good point that you raise - does a ladyboy do better shackled to a bar or on her own...

In Bangkok, the bars are a better bet for the ladyboys but I suspect that in Pattaya this is NOT the case.

[Guest]

(slurydog @ Jan. 19 2008,19:47) if demand for ladyboys are on the up

Not too sure that is the case. I suspect the opposite.

[COIN FLIP]

I'm surprised to hear that...

[rossco]

Naklua has some bars with LB's - one to mention is the complex fronted by "Nice Bar".

Re BarFines - quoting some responses.

Living here even I have been confused by the system - maybe my comments will help clarify. I do not claim to be an expert but only submit what I have learnt/know from personal experience:

Stringfellows is a GoGo and the staff are dressed to dance and unless Barfined cannot "disappear"
If they do they would be docked salary and probably lose their job.
They are paid more than LB's in bars/lounges and the owner runs a tight ship.
Staff have a quota to fill re Ladydrinks etc which is correct as they have to "earn their keep".
Staff abide by the house rules
It is a very "black and white" system

Beer Bars/Lounges have a different set up. Club 131, Lita's, La Bamba, TripleX
This applies to GG's as well as LB's

Some LB's on salary but many staff are freelancers.
Staff on salary probably have a quota to achieve as well.
I know some GG's whose quota was 30 LD's and 12 BF's per month - if they missed quota - no salary next month.
If staff do not show up for work then they get an amount deducted from salary

The freelancers can "work" a bar if they abide by the rules of that bar.
They are expected to be at the bar every night BUT have the flexibility to not work - maybe a boyfriend/sponsor in town.
That is why many freelance - they do not want to be tied down with a set routine.
A freelancer working in a bar must provide an ID card to the bar and they get commission on BF/LD's
If they meet a customer at the bar then they pay BF.
If a freelancer meets a customer and does not pay BF then they are not welcome at the bar - they are taking business away from staff.

I think the term "freelancer" is confusing as a real Freelancer does not generally work from any bar.

Many staff who are freelance just choose not to be tied to a bar

Many LB's - staff and freelance" like to have a bar as a base. They can chat to their friends and meet customers in a better atmosphere. Many like to get to "know" the customer first. So a "freelancer" working a bar will ask for the BF to be paid as she may want to continue to use that bar as a base.

There are 2 perspectives for a bar:

Customer view:
Open 24 hours
Free Beer
No BarFines
Ladies buy you drinks
All staff phone numbers posted outside

Result Customer delirious - bar closes before it opens

Owner's view
Charge 1000 baht for warm beer - send staff out to buy at 711 when customer asks for it
Staff must ask for a ladydrink before the customer enters the bar
BF's are at least a month's salary
Ladydrinks are water
No seating
No entertainment
Rooms must have no furniture but with resident cockroaches
Staff must be very unattractive.

Result - bar has no customers and owner goes bust

So "up to us". Support the bars that provide a service and play fair. If the guys did not take the risk opening bars we would all be moaning. How many of us would open a bar and put in the hours just to serve our desires.

I used to be amazed how Karl could work a 16 hour shift daily and always be in good form.

Hope the above is useful - be interested to hear from other "informed" members how they think it works

[stogie bear]

Great post and great info!

[Guest]

Im sorry but was reading rxpharms post No 2 . It took me ages to try to reply by that time 6 had jumped infront .