Life & Living in Thailand

[stogie bear]

This forum is open to everyone...

Yes - I know what you are thinking... What the fuck? ANOTHER DARN FORUM?

There have been a lot of issues recently that are not really suited to the main News Views & Ladyboys forum so they get bumped to The Fish Box... but really they should be in here!

If you have any comments or questions about living in the LOS then you can engage in conversation here...

I'll also round up some threads from the past that are better suited to this forum also...

I'll give it a few weeks and if it doesn't work out then I'll simply put all the threads into other forums and delete it...

If it takes off then, great!

Your comments both good and bad of course are welcome (on this thread!)

[PigDogg]

Great idea Stogie!!

I like one stop shopping and would much rather stay here than search other sources for Thailand info.

[Guest]

Only one request. People who do not live here, or visit once per 2 years, or have never been here, please don't post as an expert !

Otherwise, I think the idea is good, albeit it and the newbie place seem to overlap a bit.

[stogie bear]

 Yep - two good points which are why I have 'hummed and harred' on doing this. And I hate too many forums/sections on a message board! Makes it hard to find what you want!

I or someone else will always be here to step in and correct mis-information as we have in the past.

There are better sites than us for expert information, but hopefully we'll find a set of issues not covered by other websites...

There are somethings that I do know about more than most... teaching in Thailand, living CHEAPLY in Thailand, and a few other things...

Other regular posters here who live and/or work in the LOS know more about many other topics, so feel free to ask away. One of us can find the answer (or our version of it!)

This isn't The Travel Information forum! I think that this is where the 'overlapping' may occur. But specific directions on a bus or train route probably would be better off in here...

As usual the moderators and I will shift topics around as we see fit and this includes topics that change direction after a few posts, too!

We'll see how it goes...  

[rossco]

Stogie - Good Idea. To help populate this new Forum - an article I wrote last year:

Land of Smiles - beneath the surface.

I have met some of you and have aired my views directly. This is all general information and not specifically applied to the LB scene but worth noting. I hope it helps those coming on holiday as well as those considering living here. I do have some financial planning info for those serious about moving here.

As a rough guide (Pattaya only - up country much cheaper but Night life limited)

10 million Baht to buy, move in to house/Condo get comfortable and buy decent set of wheels. Living costs later. Before people have replied " I did not pay that much". You can get a house/condo for 2,000,000 Baht up to (One guy I met has a house at 46,000,000 Baht) ultimately it is "up to you". My guideline is based on a house at about 6.5 Million Baht.

When moving to live abroad NEVER underestimate the costs - if you budget so delicately your dream could become a nightmare.

A few rules following member report from Bangkok I think.

Respect the King - including all images and that includes banknotes - if you desecrate a bank note you desecrate the King. If you tread on a coin to stop it rolling you desecrate the King

Respect all Temples and Icons/Images - 2 reasons. It is Thai way and secondly you look like an ignorant asshole if you do not.

A true story around this. A handicapped kid went to the Temple and had a fit. He broke some statues. The people beat him to death - they believe handicapped people are just so as they were "no good" in their previous life.

Respect ALL people. This is common sense but if you behave in the way that we can in the West you are a "buffalo" - I know many guys where all the ladies smile at them but none will go with him because he has proven himself to be one dumb, stupid, loud mouthed buffalo. You should hear some of the conversations the girls have - they do not choose their words carefully. So you get drunk and act like an asshole - you may find your card marked.

This really applies to the main GG circuit but Lb's the same.

When you go past bars you will hear the shout "Hello Handsome man". BUT they may be saying in Issan "hello han sum man" - which means loosely "small dick" - listen carefully

Never get into a aggressive argument. I saw a drunk UK guy in BKK trying to intimidate the bouncer at a club. The next thing is a knuckle duster appeared on the bouncers hand and 4 other Thais showed up. The guy was just sober enough to realise he was outplayed. The Thais smile a lot but when agitated take care. You argue with one and many appear out of the darkness. (LB's are the same). If you freelance you take a risk - La Bamba and Stringfellows in Pattaya have reputable staff.

Police - not same as the West. Everyone on the take and NEVER confront. You want to play and you are going to pay big time. No bail and no legal aid. I got stopped 4th Jan for going too fast (having just been overtaken by numerous bedhouin taxis) - Police guy said (literally) "Happy New Year Farang - 200 baht" I could not refuse.

Life is cheap here - for 5000 baht you can get someone "hit" - I mean it. Many stories of Farang upsetting Thai girlfriend or whatever - next thing he is dead or in hospital. They take revenge seriously.

Do not get "involved" unless you mean to - they take relationships seriously after only a short courtship. They then demand unyielding loyalty which they also give in return.

Holiday vs Resident. They love paperwork here and as a foreigner there are many restrictions that you never know about. Buying property. Thais do not trust lawyers - there is no law society to escalate problems/wrongdoings. There is a lot of BS advice. You can buy a house but use a lawyer and understand it is "their way" - if you do like it do not move here.

Living cost. When you come her on vacation you have big bucks - say 3000 quid for a month - that is 210,000 baht. Average monthly wage in Thailand, for Thais, is 5000 baht. A teacher will start at 6000 baht a month. Girl in restaurant or factory will do 7 days a week for 150 baht per day plus tips etc SO YOUR 210,000 is like monopoly money.

You really need to think in Baht and in their economic terms. Think in relative terms - your 5,000 baht is one months income. A lady drink is equivalent to one factory workers day's pay. Thais eat for 50 baht or less a day. Your meal at a restaurant is say 500 baht - three days pay. Get the idea - pricing/cost is a relative thing - you should try to think in local terms. So your 1000/1500 baht for long time is one weeks pay - that is why the sex industry is so bouyant NOT because you are so good looking!!

Most people working Pattaya do legitimately send money home - many families are dependent on their offspring working Pattaya. I know one lady has 2 kids 14 and 15 in her town. They live in a small house, on their own, while mom works 3 month stints in Pattaya. So, many of them have a genuine need for your money.

When resident here it is unlikely you will work - so can you afford the 3000 quid a month holiday budget money to retire here - probably not. Good news is that you can live here on 50,000/75,000 baht a month comfortably BUT you will not be able to butterfly nightly!

Try not to butterfly in the same bar - they do not like it. Again you will get all smiles BUT that is on the outside. Inside they lose face and that is a big no here - shame the principle does not exist in the West - society might be a bit more pleasant than currently.

When you live here you are always a "guest to the kingdom of Thailand" you have no rights and can be asked to leave at anytime.

Finally - Prostitution is illegal. Always pay the BF and deal separately for other service - the BF is to take the person from place of work - comp the bar.

Try and agree everything in advance ST/LT and cost. They always ask for Taxi fare as extra but up to you. If you agree everything in advance OK - if not you may find you have a little spitfire to deal with. Never pay in advance and always pay the Bar and not the girl. My book says do not BF in advance and say "I will come back later/tomorrow". If she gets another offer she will take it - I know not everyone but as a general rule "pay as you go"

Now saying prostitution is illegal is amusing BECAUSE so are all those Mobile food carts that have braziers/gas fired cookers!!

The authorities have a dilemma. There are 85,000 ladies working Pattaya. No one pays tax. What would happen if they overnight cleaned up the sex trade. 85,000 people out of work - add in hotels, restaurants, shops etc and Pattaya would implode. Police would not get their monthly pay outs and and and....

So Thailand is full of inconsistencies - just smile back and enjoy the trip and keep the emotions under control and respect everyone and everything that way you have a great time.


This is really part 2 but some useful info here.

Private Dancer a good read if poorly written. A little bigotted in some areas but does explain the bar scene.

For those interested for an evening over a beer I can give you the inside story on how bars operate - information gleaned from many bar owners. When you know it all then you will have a different perspective.

Who gets paid by who and why and how much could make a crime story!

Another good read is "Even Thai Girls Cry" - it is better written than Private Dancer and gives another perspective on the real life of a Thai girl. At the end of the day they have left school by 14 and have had some pretty shitty poorly paid jobs. The average income is low so the trade in Pattaya is lucrative by comparison.

As life has little value (earthly life under Budhism is just a phase into a greater life) it means that they do not place a high price on life.

Another example given to me was:
Give a Thai lady 3000 baht and she will have a great day out shopping, drinking with friends, Kareoke and cards.
One day and all gone.
Give her 100 baht a day and she will spend it accordingly.
The idea of saving is just not there.

A Thai girl told me that the only gifts she likes is Gold and cash. Flowers and cuddly toys, and the like, they find amusing as us Farangs are so sentimental. Cultural difference. Gold and cash they can use - also read Mobile phone - another kind of currency here!

Why does a girl 20+ go with a guy of 60+ - simple - guarantee. I am not talking about some bodily warranty but a Pension. These ladies know that a guy of 60+ has a pension - guaranteed income. It is not his stunning rugged good looks that appeals but financial security. Ok this applies more to the GG but it is also an insight in to how a Thai thinks.

I broke up with a long term GG (1 year in my country and Thailand) She was back working in a bar within one week and was BF'd her first night. To us may seem a bit immoral - to them it is just survival.

Enough philosophy but hope all these posts help visitors with understanding where they are visiting.

Enjoy P4P and return home with some great memories but recognise that you are the fish out of water in a pond you will never fathom.

[stogie bear]

Great stuff, Rossco...

You may have to adjust your income figures for Thais now. I suspect that this was written some time ago.

I hope you keep writing stuff like that (and post it for all the chaps who either live here or are thinking of moving here.)

The step from tourist to expat requires a lot of learning and re-adjustment.

Facts aren't always facts and things change faster than you can turn around...

The only thing you can rely on in Thailand is what is staring you in the face at that moment in time. The rest may or may not be real!

TiT!

[JustSumGai]

(stogie bear @ Mar. 19 2008,19:34)      

Great stuff, Rossco...

You may have to adjust your income figures for Thais now. I suspect that this was written some time ago.

I hope you keep writing stuff like that (and post it for all the chaps who either live here or are thinking of moving here.)

The step from tourist to expat requires a lot of learning and re-adjustment.

Facts aren't always facts and things change faster than you can turn around...

The only thing you can rely on in Thailand is what is staring you in the face at that moment in time. The rest may or may not be real!

TiT!

Currently this isI my focus. Cost of living. What kind of fun you have relates directly to this. Stogie, I wish you would write a few posts about your experience in living on less. *I* would call it frugal living while others like to flame "cheap charlie". Not all of us have had a big success in career. I'd guess most of us did'nt even think of retiring to Thailand or living overseas for extended periods when we left school and entered into working. I know *I* did'nt. Thus I am working with less. Oddball that I am I find it kind of a game to live as well as I can on less. I found a great lil hostel, new building, AC dorm, I get a kick outta hearing the kids tales of "adventure" and it's some western folks to talk with, $7 a night. RIGHT next to a block of food vendors, skytrain AND a massage place with happy ending.
For a time I lived in Nonthaburi next to Koh Kret. Both places were $100 a month, one a bare bones motel room with balcony but ok, and RIGHT next to the market for easy shopping and food. The other a two floor home. Number 18 bus to Victory circle and the skytrain. A long trip in tho, not something for everyday but ok now and then. So I know it can be done. I was living on goooood meals cooked by my thai gf, and having a nice lil home life for about 5000 baht a month.

I think a book list would be good basic info on a pinned post. Maybe also averages on electric and water costs per month. I'd be real interested in a post laying out basic areas and what is the feature in them. I know Sukhumvit is said to be farang central. Until I moved cross the river I had no idea you could be near cows and farming so near the city.

For me this will be a very interesting forum to watch. Great possibilities.

[Naang Faa]

I love the condo i live in..
Studio apartment in Ratchada 5 mins walk from Suitisan MRT
Two pools,three restaurants,three mini marts,Three salons,internet room
(basic) gym,laundry and lots of security...
Everything you want you just phone and they will bring to your room
Meals cost 30-65 bhat electricity and water 1000 bhat pm..
All this for 6000 pm...absolute bargain
x

[stogie bear]

1,000 baht a month for water? Do you mean 100?

You can live very comfortably in Thailand for any amount of money that is forced onto you.

If you have a budget of 100,000 then you'll easily get through it in a month.

If you have a budget of 25,000 the same thing applies!

Somethings don't change wherever you live. Electric, water, internet and phone etc. these a re a constant.

Your rent is your biggest single expense each month so if you have a lot of money then you won't bother to shop around for somewhere of value.

If you are on a budget then you'll be a better shopper in this area.

What you spend on food is also determined by your budget. You can eat for a dollar a day or you can eat for 100! It's up to you.

The bus service in Bangkok is fantastic. They go everywhere and you can quickly learn routes and fares. It's so cheap. But so are taxis and so are motorcycles and so is a privately hired limo come to think of it!

I used to get a combination of motorcycles, buses and rickshaws to get me to work... because when you have a strict budget that's just the way you do things.

I'm lazy these days and tend to get a taxi everywhere. Even to Pattaya! I wouldn't have dreamed of doing that before... BUT I loved the bus journeys. Music from my phone, hours and hours to see the pretty girls get on and off and wait outside wishing they WOULD get on and off...

Some of my most memorable evenings many years ago was spending every Saturday night outside a 7/11 watching football with my mates. (All teachers.) A big bottle of Beer Chang was 35 baht and the bag of ice we shared was 5! Three of those in a night would knock me out till the next day! No tipping, no hassles and NO oversized Zippo lighter salesmen!

Nowadays I don't really give too much thought on what the bill is for a beer... but I'm no more or less happier with money than I was without it.

I've been saying this all my life... Money is a trick that serves to get you out of bed each day... I prefer to stay in bed, thanks!

[katoeylover]

Some of my most memorable evenings many years ago was spending every Saturday night outside a 7/11 watching football with my mates. (All teachers.) A big bottle of Beer Chang was 35 baht and the bag of ice we shared was 5! Three of those in a night would knock me out till the next day! No tipping, no hassles and NO oversized Zippo lighter salesmen!

If you did this in the UK, you would probably get arrested and get an ASBO!!

[rossco]

Just read Naang Faa - Electricity AND Water 1,000 Baht a month

For Pattaya:

I reckon Water is about 100 to 150 - in Pattaya many times we get water cuts or the pressure is too low to operate the electric showers (they have a safety device that means they do not heat water below a certain pressure). The answer for home owners is a water tank and pump - 2200 litre tank an pump fitted is about 20,000 baht. Many condos have water tank reserves.

Electricity - if you use the A/Ca lot you will see higher bills - one tip is to put on the AC in your room for an hour or so before going to bed (door closed). Then sleep with only the fan. Electric for a house is about 2000 baht a month BUT you do not have any heating bills!

There are no property taxes unless you buy a house through a Company

Garbage collection - 350 Baht per annum (no this is not a typing error - 350 Baht)
Condo living in the more modern and expensive condos have a monthly management charge on the owner for upkeep and maintenance - check out what this is as it can be a surprise.

Stogie - good news - there are still some places selling big bottles for 50 baht or less - some remote roadside bars out by the Golf clubs!

Eating out is still incredible value if you know where - just ask your Thai partner as they are experts on who does good noodles etc. Thai places you can get a meal for 50 baht. A group of 4 had a meal of 4 dishes + rice + beers - bill 350 Baht.

Thai (I think originally Korean) BBQ's on Second road - eat all you like for 110 baht per person.

Medium priced restaurants both Thai and Western you can eat (excluding drinks) for 250 Baht per head.

I agree that a budget is a personal matter but you can survive on 20K or spend as much as you like.

In Pattaya there is a Property Trader magazine (free at Realtors) that contains good articles about living in Pattaya.

Medical Insurance is a necessity - if you do not have cover from your home country get insured. Most of the big hospitals will take your insurance card and bill the company direct so you do not pay yourself. Cover varies for every person. The insurance cover is tiered so you need to read the small print. If you take insurance, when under 60, the company is obligated to provide cover when over 60 - of course the premium may be higher but they cannot refuse cover.

[TTChang]

(stogie bear @ Mar. 20 2008,17:26) Money is a trick that serves to get you out of bed each day... I prefer to stay in bed, thanks!

It's 7pm ... are you up yet?  

This is a great thread, and thanks to Rossco, Stogie,  Naang Faa, and JSG .... for all the useful information.

I think I'm paying too much    

[stogie bear]

It's 7pm ... are you up yet?

Like the Norwegian Blue... I'm resting!

[PigDogg]

I suppose most of you living in farangland are addicted to cars. But in places such as New York and Bangkok you really don't need a car so one of the biggest expenses can be eliminated.

[PigDogg]

(stogie bear @ Mar. 20 2008,02:26) but I'm no more or less happier with money than I was without it.

I'm all for the simple life.