Moving to asia problems?

[Guest]

can any one tell me problems with moving to asia, specificly malaysia, sabah. i am moving my family there and tring to get everything setup. (wife is local). i will not be living there full time traveling back and forth to the states for work. tired of the USA grind and should be able to retire 20 years early. so any help with problems i might encounter would be a great help.
a little history i travel a lot, being to asia several times over the last 6 years. and several south and central american countries. am learning the local language not because i have to but because i think that it would show a lot of respect to the local people and help me intergrate in the long run. what are some of the problems you all that are living of there have encountered living long term in a foregin country from which you where born special the ones from western countries?

[Snick]

Bring Underwear and Socks, also vitamins.

[Looker]

can any one tell me problems with moving to asia, specificly malaysia, sabah. i am moving my family there and tring to get everything setup. (wife is local). i will not be living there full time traveling back and forth to the states for work. tired of the USA  grind and should be able to retire 20 years early. so any help with problems i might encounter would be a great help.
a little history i travel a lot, being to asia several times over the last 6 years. and several south and central american countries. am learning the local language not because i have to but because i think that it would show a lot of respect to the local people and help me intergrate in the long run. what are some of the problems you all that are living of there have encountered living long term in a foregin country from which you where born special the ones from western countries?

Well..I guess if your wife is Malaysian (did I get it right??) then it shouldn't be so difficult, and if you can afford to retire in your early 40's ..well..it means that life has been good to you!!
I wish I could do same

[Guest]

Hello trocks69,

I am an American who lived in Malacca, Malaysia for 3.5 years.  My experience is limited to the west coast of West (Peninsular) Malaysia, basically Malacca, KL, and Penang, so I cannot comment in any detail about Sabah, which is East Malaysia.  Visas limit travel to within either West or East Malaysia, even Malaysian citizens have to get a special visa to travel from West to East or vice-versa.

I never had any major problem during my time in Malaysia, in fact I enjoyed the status of "Mat Salleh" (white foreigner) which always brought respect.  I was often referred to as "boss", for example by "petrol kiosk" attendants.  Some knowledge of Bahasa Malayu language is necessary, for example to understand road signs, but I only learned "little bit-lah".  Malays will be amazed if you speak to them in their language, they never expect it from any foreigner, so it is good that you want to learn.  You will also have to learn UK English terminology because that is the standard, commonly spoken as "Manglish", a mixture of English, Malay, and Chinese.  For example your car has a bonnet, windscreen, and boot, not a hood, windshield, and trunk.

I'm not sure if Snick's comment about bringing underwear was in jest or not, but that is one thing I always had trouble to buy in Malaysia because their version of "XXL" size would only be "M" in The States.  Asians in general are thinner and shorter than Westerners, therefore sizes are smaller compared to what you might expect.  Pants and dress shirts can be tailor made at very reasonable cost, but I recommend you heed Snick's advise about bringing underwear unless you are smaller than the average Westerner

You will have to get used to a slower pace of life, and the fact that nothing is reliable.  Malaysians say "sometimes on, sometimes off".  It power goes out, called a "power trip", do not waste time complaining because you will only be told that "last time" (any time in the past) it went out much more frequently.  Stock up on candles and a "torch" (flashlight).

Malaysians have a complete lack of driving discipline.  This was always my biggest complaint.  Driving to and from work was like negotiating an obstacle course every day, very stressful.  You can never relax for one second.  Motorcycle drivers seem to have total disregard for their own safety, or else no understanding that a big metal box on wheels will do them serious harm if they get "knocked down" after they decide to turn directly in front of your car.  The only rule they normally follow is to wear a helmet, otherwise they are clad in T-shirt, shorts, and sandals which offer no protection for their bodies whatsoever.  I was advised many times that should I "meet an accident" (not a question of if, only when) with a motorcycle not to stop but to drive directly to the nearest police station.  If you stop and get out of your car you will immediately be surrounded by a crowd and could end up being beaten badly, I've seen it happen.  Fortunately I never had that experience.

DO NOT buy a Proton car, they are poorly made and lack safety standards that have long been required in the West.  Safety is regarded as a luxury in Malaysia.  European and American cars are heavily taxed to protect the Malaysian car builders but Japanese cars, while still costing more than Protons, cannot be taxed so heavily because they are assembled in Malaysia.  I bought a Nissan Cefiro, equivalent to Maxima in The States, because it at least had dual air bags and anti-lock brakes.  It was also bigger and faster than most other cars on the road, which was an advantage in certain traffic situations such as negotiating a "round about" (traffic circle).  Malaysians only "give way" if they absolutely have to and will try to "overtake" with total disregard for safety, but they do respect vehicle size.  Of course the drivers of busses and "lorries" know that and will not hesitate to cut you off.  They don't care if you "scrape" them.

You will be living in a predominantly Muslim area.  Most Malaysian Muslims are very moderate, with the exception of the PAS political party in the northern and eastern areas of the Peninsula.  They want to establish a strict Islamic government and went to the extent of such things as banning alcohol and requiring separate check out lanes in markets for men and women in the areas they controlled, but they are a minority and lost a lot of their power in recent elections.  I always had good relations with Muslims I worked with, who knew I was in their country as a technical adviser to help them succeed.  Many came up to me and apologized after 9/11, telling me that what those people did was against Islam.

Crime is a growing problem in Malaysia, becoming more violent.  My condo was robbed once while I was out of the country on a business trip even though I had a security gate installed, the robbers just cut the metal and pried the door open.  Security guards are very poorly paid, often sleeping in their guard house and even cooperating with the robbers sometimes.  Robbers are typically drug addicts usually looking for small things they can run with and sell quickly, such as hand phones and jewelry.  I did not lose anything of significant value but found my "flat" in complete disarray when I returned from my trip, the robbers had emptied drawers and thrown everything around.

Please PM me if I can answer any questions you may have in more detail.

Best Regards, Joe

[stogie bear]

Terrific reply and much to good for the likes of The Fish Box!

Although not strictly 'travel' related I hope this thread is more appropriate in this forum!

SB

[Guest]

thanks for the reply. as far as driving no one is worse the the philipino's but at least they drive on the right side of the road. last time i was in sabah i kept trying to shift with my right hand, hard to do since the drivers door is in the way.i know clothes will be a major problem since i am an expowerlifter i wear an american 2xxl shirt and xl underwear with a 12 shoe,not easy to find,,aas far as a car i wanted a full size truck f-150 ford or a nissan titian or similiar in toyota, but i have not found one on the net. do they even import these?
how have you all done on the mental side, this is home sickness, malaysian time, or other such matters more mental then physical?

[Guest]

Ha, I had exactly the same experience the first time I drove a rental car in Malaysia (February 1999), I remember reaching for the seat belt with my right hand but it wasn't there.  Even after several years (and usually after several drinks) I would sometimes enter my car on the left and wonder where the controls were.  It only takes a couple of weeks to become accustomed to driving on the left side of the road, but coming out of a driveway can be dangerous due to the habit of looking left, it's easy to forget that you have to look to the right to see oncoming traffic.

I've been told that the worst driving is in Taiwan but cannot say for sure because I've never been there.  I have been to Manilla but did not drive, only sat in taxis.  Filipinos simply ignore any type of traffic control device other than a policeman.  Malaysians at least pay some attention to traffic lights, but only one lane at a time gets a green light to try to avoid accidents caused by drivers turning into oncoming traffic.  Bangkok has the most congestion of any city I've ever been in.

The biggest American cars I ever saw in Malaysia were Jeep Cherokees, never anything like an F150.  You can get Japanese pickups but will have to special order and pay high tax (as much as 150% of the cost of the car) for an import.  I did see these occasionally, usually heavily modified and being driven by the son of some Chinese businessman as a status symbol.  Malaysia has no inspection system, after you buy a car you can do just about anything you want other than heavily tint the windows.  This also means that as long as a vehicle can move somebody will be driving it, never mind about details such as brake lights not working or no exhaust system.  Car accessory shops are very common, interspersed with mobile phone shops and "restorans" which can be anything from a cart surrounded by a few plastic tables and stools to an enclosed large air conditioned room.

Oh, about food: NEVER eat at any stall that does not have running water!  Stalls without water bring a bucket filled with water at the start of business then use the water in that bucket to rinse plates and utensils continuously until the stall operator decides to "go back" (Manglish, means go home).  Not exactly hygienic.

I don't understand what you mean about "mental side".  I loved my time in Malaysia, was able to live like a king on a salary that would not even be lower middle class in The States.  I stayed at 5 star hotels and experienced "entertainment" that I never knew existed before, which has something to do with me being a member of this site now.  Unfortunately I tried to "court" two women in Malacca, first a local "Straits-born" Chinese then a Filipina singer.  Neither could be satisfied, wanting more than I could possibly afford.  I now know that they do this because they regard a relationship with an expat as winning the lottery.  They know we will have to leave the country eventually so they try to get as much as they can as quickly as possible.  There are many posts on this forum discussing how bar girls treat foreigners as walking ATMs, but in my experience this is not limited to bar girls, can be any Asian woman.  There is a book "Private Dancer" available for download on this forum which should be required reading for any naive expat like me before taking an assignment in SE Asia.

My username comes from a song that an American pub owner in Malacca composed about me.  He couldn't make Engineer Joe rhyme so shortened it to Engine Joe.  You can download the song from here if you are interested, a little over 4 megs:

http://rapidshare.de/files/8319318/engine_joe.mp3.html

Sorry, I digressed.  One of the most common questions I was asked while in Malaysia was when would I return to The States.  Everyone seemed to think Americans all have houses, jobs, cars, etc. just waiting for them.  I had none of those, nothing for me to miss, therefore I preferred living in Malaysia.  In The States I would just be one of millions of Joes, but in Malaysia I could be Mr. Joe, addressed as "sir" or even "boss".

Finally, about Malaysia Time, this refers to everything being late.  If you are invited to a dinner at 7PM sharp, don't show up before 7:30 because no one else will be there until then and people will actually start eating around 8.  That's Malaysia Time.

Regards, Joe

[Looker]

aas far as a car i wanted a full size truck f-150 ford or a nissan titian or similiar in toyota, but i have not found one on the net. do they even import these?

In fact, there are 20 units of Ford F-250 (or 350, can't remember..) used by the BOMBA (fire brigades) as fire and rescue vehicles deployed allover Malaysia.
FORD Malaysia is taking (more or less) care about the maintenance, and you can call FORD head office in Malaysia inquirying about the posisble import. The best thing could also be to get a Ford pick-up F-150 from Australia since it comes with the RHD already. Otherwise a second hand Range-Rover would be OK as well.

[rossi30]

Interesting post, EngineJoe. Brings back memories... Especially about the motorbike riders, they all seem to have something in common: a deathwish.
I went the "other way". Grew up in KL, and am now working in Zurich.
Holidays are now spent split between Malaysia and LOS.

[Guest]

Hello rossi30,

Like all experiences in life there were good and bad during my time in Malaysia, but overall when I look back on those years I think they were the best I've had so far, and I hope "trocks69" can also enjoy life there.  He should be able to as long as he keeps an open mind and is not strictly a "steak and potatoes" kind of American who is repulsed at the sight of a roach.  I would still be there if I could, I was very sad when my contract ended.

I heard it said that Allah protects the motorbike riders, but even so thousands are killed every year in Malaysia and many others severely injured.  I truly feel sorry for them because handicapped face a difficult life in Malaysia, especially those confined to a wheelchair.  Unfortunately, safety campaigns meet little success.  In Mahkota Parade, the largest shopping mall in Malacca, the police put up an annual poster display with gory pictures of dead and horribly injured motorcyclists, but teenagers just stand around laughing.  Nobody thinks it can happen to them.

I'm sure you're earning much more working in Europe than would be possible in Malaysia.  That's why companies like the one I work for, a German memory chip maker, have factories there: low cost of labor.  Now they're shifting to China because costs are even lower there, I feel bad for those in Malaysia and other SE Asian countries that will be put out of work because of this.

Best Regards and Happy New Year, Joe

[rossi30]

Well, I think that trocks69 will find out soon enough if he can stomach the tak apa (never-mind) and kiasu (selfish) attitudes of Malaysians in general (all races mixed). However, he is moving to Sabah, the "Far West" (or rather Far east) of Malaysia, far enough away from the central government to be able to do things differently. And, as he has a Malaysian wife to show him the strings, it should not be so bad.
Just remember one thing, as a Mat Salleh, yo can get away with many things, just have to learn to know when to be more agressive or when to back down when dealing with cops/immigartion/customs officers. 90% of them are on the take, despite what the gov says that only 5% are "dirty". Many malays(ians) still suffer from the "colonial syndrome" and look up to the "rich & powerful" white man. There is also the SPG (Sarung Party Girl) phenomena, hot GGs who desperately want a white boyfriend, and are willing to do anything to get one, on one hand to be taken care of (rich man, remember?) and also for the "prestige" of being seen in public with the Mat Salleh bf.
BTW, I heard that there was a pretty heavy LB action going on in malacca at night near the fort... Any infos on that, EngineJoe?

[Mai-Kee]

Hi Joe,

have you ever been with the tgirls who are strolling in the park at the foot of St. Pauls Hill in Melaka? I don't know if they are still working there or if there was meanwhile a final raid, but I had very nice experiences there - last time in 2001.

Happy New Year, lah

MK

[rossi30]

Hi Mai-Kee, looks like we both had the same question for EngineJoe

[Mai-Kee]

yeah.... can only recommend the Malaysian girls - lovely rememberings.... *sigh*

MK

[Guest]

I never knew there were LBs around St. Paul's Hill until I started reading this forum in March 2005.  I lived here: Garden City, on the 14th "storey" facing the Straits.  I did have my first LB experience in my condo there, a hairdresser.

There was a cheap hotel with too much decoration and neon called The Portuguese Hotel that I could see from my condo which the police used to raid regularly.  They would park a couple of blue lorries in front then herd the girls out, sometimes with only towels wrapped around themselves.  As far as I know they were all GG "Guest Relations Officers" that worked the karaoke bars in Malacca Raya.  I never went in those places, mostly just hung out in this American pub: Rock&Roll Grill (I'm at the upper left corner in the pictures).  There were very few Americans in Malacca when I was there (February 1999 until October 2002) so it was necessary to keep a relatively low profile because almost every move I made quickly became known at the factory where I was working.  That was the bad part of being Mat Salleh, no privacy.  I used to go to Penang on weekends for some freedom.

I know about corruption.  That's one reason nobody cares about the way they drive, if policeman stops you, just pay "coffee money".  I did that, got stopped 3 times on the North-South Highway in radar traps cruising in my Cefiro at 150kph but never given "compound".  Police are so low paid that they really have no other choice, they have to supplement their income.  And I kept a Filipina singer living with me for 9 months simply by paying an Immigration officer for a "chop" in her passport every 30 days.  Maybe someday the government will realize that the only way to put an end to corruption is to pay civil servants well, like in Singapore.

I let myself be taken advantage of when I first started living there, as mentioned in my earlier post.  I knew nothing about "face", why an attractive woman 20 years younger than me would want to be seen with me in public as you mention.  That's why I say Private Dancer should have been required reading.

Regards, Joe