Thinking of buying a condo...

[tropical]

I have been considering purchasing a Condo in Thailand , something I have been thinking about for the last couple of years. I have read a lot of property forums (Thai), and a great deal of shit that must be waded through to glean some snippets of helpful information.

 I was wondering if anyone has delved into the property market in Thailand, in the last 12-18 months.(realise due to world economic crisis it wasn't / isn't a good time).

I am considering Pattaya, with a budget of around the 3.5 million Baht price tag, I found myself starting at 1 million Baht, then 2, etc but seem comfortable with what I can get for the 3 million Baht price range. I like the look of "The Avenue" built by the Nova group, its location seems good and I will be checking it out in the next week or two.
 I was interested to hear from anyone who has some recent experience and may be able to point me in the right direction, or, bring my attention to other Condo's that may be worth a look.

This might seem strange, but I dont see the purchase of a Condo in Thailand as an Investment that will make me any money, more of a bit of a reward for myself, I realise there are a lot of people that are against any form of property purchase in Thailand, so I guess there will be a lot of negatives posted.
Cheers

[Jerome]

Try to get as low a floor as possible.
Foreigners tend to "fall" out of high rise condos in Pattaya a lot.

[tropical]

I think the foreigners that fall out of Condos are doing the world a favour mate,lol,
Cheers

[mardhi]

I would be sniffing around Northpoint if I were in the market - the whole project is about to finish and the rumours are that heaps of buyers are unable to close as they dont have the money (i.e buyers of multiple units, planning to 'flip' the property before it completed and make a excellent return) - the problem is that the market has really softened, the prices have not gone up and the 'flippers' cant move 'em - hence they suddenly have to find the outstanding balances on closing or lose the 40% or so they have already paid.      Apparently its a lot of people who had bought multiple units (all in foreign allocation) so you may well pick up a bargain but you need to keep very close and be prepared to move very fast.

[Tomcat]

may look at some land off Rayong. Theres an Island down there and when they put the Electric sea cable down it could be something.

I heard a lot of Scandis and Germans sniffing around

The name of the Island escapes me but i know a few Thais who have bought last year with a long term view.

[manarak]

There seems to be massive premium built into condos for foreign allocation.

10 million baht buys you a nice condo apartment (but nothing stellar) or buys you a nice 300sqm 4 bedroom house with pool on 1 rai of land...

Maybe because the condo is legal to have in foreigners' own name but the land not?
Anyway the difference in price is huge, and I'd expect maintenance costs to be higher in a condo as well (because of electricity markup and the other padded bills).

[rxpharm]

tropical, in what way do you see owning a condo in Thailand as rewarding yourself? As you have read most recommend renting as the best way to stay in LOS long term.

It would seem better to preserve your capital outside LOS in something more secure, and only spend what you need or want without the burden of ownership.

[Bumpa STIKKA]

(rxpharm @ Jan. 18 2010,00:39) tropical, in what way do you see owning a condo in Thailand as rewarding yourself?

I was thinking the same thing.

This can only end in tears. Check out the excellent threads about this in the "Life & Living in Thailand" forum.

Personally I would NOT want to live near other farangs. Thailand fucks these people up - especially in Pattaya... but to each...

[tropical]

Hi Guys, Thankyou for your input, its all appreciated, positive or negative.

Mardhi, thanks for the tip regarding Northpoint, I will see what I can find out, especially the resale opportunities.

Tomcat, sounds like you have a good lead I hope you can get in on the action when the time is right.

Manarak, I agree with you, there is a huge premium built into foreign ownership, but  we know they will not make it any easier for us.

Rxpharm and Bumpa,
[QUOTE] tropical, in what way do you see owning a condo in Thailand as rewarding yourself?
Gents, I have been travelling to Los for about 13 years now, usually 3-4 times a year for short stays 2 weeks or so, sometimes more, sometimes less.During this time I have also managed to start my company up from scratch (in my home country) and expand it , so that now things have become a bit easier for me.
 I have a number of  commercial and residential investments in my home country that are all appreciating in value and returning good profits.
(I wont waffle on about net worth etc, as I appreciate this is a forum, and anyone can make any claims they like)
 In short, business has been good, the investments have been good to me, and being a single Guy with no kids, I am in a position to treat myself to a modest residential purchase in Thailand. ( I realise I would see a better return investing this money in my home country, but as I mentioned , I dont consider this to be an income producing asset, more a reward for hard work).
 Thanks again for your input.
Cheers

[Bumpa STIKKA]

One word if you really want to reward yourself in Thailand... RENT!

[spare wheel]

i can sell you a property in pak nam pran, 2 bed villa with pool 3.6mil baht.
its not mine, wish it was, friend of mine is selling, only 3 yrs old to, plus you get to own all, dont ask me how that works but she owns the land and everything on it.
if you want views about it, ask farangbah, he came last year and i left it to him and his girl for there holiday.

SW

[dixon cox]

Personally, I would never consider buying.

The main reason being; the loss of flexibility, if you fall out with neighbors or some other shit starts occuring you can pick up sticks and move on if you rent. You also have the general option of moving around and not being fixed to one single location, however nice.

The second reason is; I would never trust the Thais with the sums of money required to buy. You will never be anything other than a second class farang visitor.

There are so few positives for buying (if any), but so many reasons for renting.

Try calculating; your potential purchase price, divided by the monthly rental payment on your style of condo, multiplied by your life expectancy in months. Depending how old you are you may be able to rent within your years for less than the purchase price.

[TTChang]

(dixon cox @ Jan. 18 2010,05:41) ....... and compare this with your life expectancy. Depending how old you are you may be able to rent within your years for less than the purchase price.

Or a lot less in my case ....  

I suppose I've got to the stage where ownership of anything is overrated.  Many times I have thought about property purchase - in Spain, Cyprus, and in Thailand - and always reach the same conclusion (after spending a day or two doing the research).

But I do understand your motivation, tropical, and the thought of having a LOS 'retreat' as your reward.   But in Pattaya it would probably finish me off (from the nightlife - not the balcony!), so the above calculation gets even more doubtful  .....  

[manarak]

Try calculating; your potential purchase price, divided by the monthly rental payment on your style of condo, multiplied by your life expectancy in months. Depending how old you are you may be able to rent within your years for less than the purchase price.

I did that.
You can rent for 15 to 18 years for the same money.
This takes into account compounded interest on the sum which you didn't spend.

But this does not take into account:
- rising baht exchange rates, and believe me, after 15 years, the baht will be worth much more!
- rising rent. no doubt the Thai owner will want to see more $$$ after the the value of the grounded property doubled after 10 years (talking about houses here - condos won't see such an increase because there is no ground).

This could potentially force one to give up his home and be forced to move every 5 to 7 years.
Something that costs 1000 USD per month to rent today could easily cost 2600 USD in 10 years.
You could probably avoid partly the rent increase by moving to a cheaper place (i.e. leaving that lovely and well-positioned condo to move out to the city outskirts), but you won't avoid the appreciation of the Baht.

And before anybody says nonsense about hedging, there are no forward contracts for such long periods. The only thing one could do to immunize to against the risk is invest in Thai Bonds/Stocks if possible.

From an economical point of view (not taking into account inherent legal risks and other headaches one has in Thailand), there is no better way to preserve your capital than buying a grounded property in a country where the currency is not likely to become depreciated, and in a region that is not likely to see prices fall, both of which applies to Thailand.
But yes, there are some risks involved in buying land.

[f0xxee]

Personally if I were to buy a condo i would buy one in BKK, middle Sukhamvit (sois 22-55) and rent it out long term and live in a hotel in Patts. Own in Patts? No I don't think so... especially not a condo... I grew up around the boom/bust cycles of real estate on the Gold Coast of Queensland, and it taught me to buy property only where money is made, not spent. CBD's not holidays by the seas.