So much to do and think about

[neogzim24]

This is just a personal thought that i want some opinions on. I'm 31 and saving to either move to Thailand full-time or visit for 3 or months a year. I work in Healthcare and I have a back ground in education. I have about 75,000 in investments and about 30,000 in the bank. I want to make that move to Thailand in the next 6-10 years. I just keep hearing the horrior stories. If I do move, I will limit the nightlife and play the role of local well. I would have great interest in running a bar or investing in one that would allow for income. I want to consider teaching english, due to the fact of my Sports Med degree. Ok guys let me have it! Crazy or just on my way to a possibily good move?



neo

[Bicycle Pump]

I will limit the nightlife and play the role of local well...

I would have great interest in running a bar or investing in one that would allow for income...

Is it April Fools already?

[TopDog]

If you can save $1M in the next 6-10 years I'd say go for it.

[jadeite]

(neogzim24 @ Dec. 02 2009,03:49) I would have great interest in running a bar or investing in one that would allow for income.

I am sure you have been barraged with PM's on get rich quick bars that are little more than some dusty planks empty of customers.

Lesson 1: There is exactly one way to make money in the bars: selling them for ridiculous amounts of money to people like you. There is no other way. It is a similar model to the nigerian scam mails, only targeting a different type of audience--"give me some money and it will unlock all these riches".

[rossco]

First work out how much income you will need.
Accommodation
Transport
Utilities
Insurance - no free medicare here
Food & Drink
Visa runs/renewals
Mongering

Add in location - Bangkok/Pattaya or rural Issan

Very difficult to give exact figures as everyone is different. An approximate figure would be 90,000 Baht per month or about 3,000 USD - many live on less but many spend more.

If your income is USD based consider any movement in Forex rates.

Teaching is a popular job here for foreigners BUT it does not pay that well. Check Ajarn.com.

Bar ownership. Yes you can make LIMITED money from a bar BUT:
You will never actually own (you only own the lease)
Long hours for little return - unless you enjoy living the bar life.
The license MUST be in a Thai name.
You cannot 'work' in your own bar - technically you cannot go behind the serving area nor serve yourself a drink!
The more successful bars (and this is a relative term) require the Farang to spend long hours either touting their bar or discovering who and how money is taken out.

A quick (subjective) summary of bar economics (in Baht):

Monthly lease 25,000
Staff - 4 servers @ 3K each, cashier 6K, Mamasan/manager 10K - total 28,000
Utilities - 12,000
License fees
Police/repairs/maintenance ??

So excluding stock replenishment, your income, any repayment of capital (what you paid for the lease + any refurb costs) you require 65,000 to break even.

Assume (dangerous word!) 60 baht profit per drink. Obviously there is greater margin on Lady Drinks and Bar Fines.

You must sell at least 1000 units of drink per month - every month. 30 a day does not seem much BUT the average customer only has 2 drinks so you need 15 customers every day.
Low season is March to Oct, High season is Nov to Feb. 66% of your annual income will be generated in high season.

All this is before you get any return on capital nor income of any kind.

The other aspect is that foreigners have a greater expectation of income from any business here. Foreigners want 50K per month whereas a local Thai may be satisfied with 10/15 K per month.

A 'rule of thumb' is you need 5+ times turnover of your expected income. Foreigner needs 250K turnover, Thai needs 75K.

My advice would be to do some real on site research using your head before even considering any venture. Finally do NOT mix business with pleasure - it ends in tears!

PM me if you want any more data.

[tomscam]

This is a very interesting thread. I'm in a similar position as neogzim24 (except with less money) and am keen to hear what the BM's who live in LOS think.

As far as business ideas go I've been looking into exporting goods from Thailand to sell back in the home country (Australia).

If you don't mind answering neogzim24, what country do you come from?

[Stewart]

I would have great interest in running a bar or investing in one that would allow for income.

Are you related to someone called Tony75 by any chance?

[EyeMahk]

(neogzim24 @ Dec. 02 2009,05:49) I would have great interest in running a bar or investing in one that would allow for income.

Where is Frank when you need him.

Seriously, there are a thousand reasons for a FARANG not to buy a bar. You'll find them out sooner or later, one way or the other.

Good advice: When in Thailand, do not buy ANYTHING that is not consumable. Cars, real estate, bars, women, ladyboys, etc. RENT !

[neogzim24]

im from the US, and i know it would be an uphill climb. Thats why i stated i would like to live there or for 3-6 mos out of the year. Guys I have only been 2x, and Ray Charles could see the problems one would face there. I just flipping love Thailand and the people. Oh and the ladyboys dont hurt either!!

neo

[Ivor Biggun]

Wait til you are financially secure and open a 'hobby bar' is the best thing to do. I'm retired and on a pension so I have a safe income (dependant on exchange rates ) I had a place for 2 years and got out before the downturn, breaking even- one of the lucky ones. it was a constant frustration and caused a lot of stress. Plenty of guys come here to make a success of things, only to leave 3-6 months later having lost the lot. Eyes wide open and please don't make a commitment based on a couple of short trips. Living there 3-4 months of the years would cause chaos the rest of the time as you would end up getting ripped off the rest of the year.

I'd echo Rossco's comments as well. I don't want to put a damper on things but in nearly 5 years here I've seen a lot of dreams shattered. On the other hand if you hav the cash to gamble with and are prepared to take a bath- go for it, it's only money

[Snick]

The easiest way to leave Thailand with a million dollars is to arrive with 10 million.

There is no way to make money on a bar in Thailand, if you're lucky you'll only bleed to death slowly.

Find some business that caters to Farangs, or do work over the internet. Don't get involved in anything that might bring in the cops and require bribes/protection.

This is NOT a free and open economy, the game is rigged, the cops crooked, and the "law" will always side with the Thai (and is written in pencil on toilet paper).

[farangbah]

. . . and as for teaching English, unless you can get in at the university level, you won't make enough to wipe your ass. That would best be done in a neighboring first world country (teaching, not wiping your ass. but maybe that too, if you're not down with the whole garden hose thing), allowing for frequent sorties into LOS, as well as a better standard of living.

Good luck. You've got lotsa time to enjoy -- and revel in -- your perdicament.

[manarak]

Neo

I am currently preparing my leap to Thailand too, and have been doing over a year of research on every possible aspect.

1- Good advice from Rossco. Opening a bar is not a good idea. For a lot of reasons.

2- Avoid being dependent on Thai people to run your business - this excludes a lot of things already.
The best thing is to find a very rare skill you're an expert in and be a consultant or a teacher for that skill (and no, urban US-english is not a rare skill).

3- If you aren't skilled in the legal stuff and extremely careful, you should indeed not buy anything in the LOS. rent.

4- If you want to run a local business like a bar, restaurant, internet café and whatnot, the low level of income in Thailand makes it necessary to work extremely hard in businesses like bars, restaurants, etc.

5- The best thing is to get your income from abroad, either by exporting stuff like Tomscam wants to do or by doing business abroad like I want to do.

6- Better you don't settle for earning just 50k baht in a month, because you will need money when you will be old. Don't forget you won't have any help for retirement money if you live in the LOS.

...
that being said, it is possible to get a work permit for working in a bar/restaurant.
you just need to specialize in farang cooking.
a german couple runs the bar "bamboo" on maenam beach road on koh samui. they legally cook, serve drinks, etc. no problem, because their bar is specialized in german food.

and as an american I believe you are allowed to own a majority stake in a thai company.

[rossco]

I am not sure your German friends got a permit based on their German culinary skill. More likely they 'qualified' for permits based on their business and employees.

You can get a work permit here by forming a Thai company. For every 4 Thais that you officially employ (paying social charges etc) you can get a permit for 1 foreigner.

[manarak]

They have one employee, but both germans are allowed to work.

I spoke with them because as you, I could not believe what I was seeing in their bar. They told me the work permits were awarded based on their cooking. I asked again the same question, just to be sure, and the reply was the same, so...