Can you live longer in Thailand?

[Lefty]

How do you know where I live or how much time I've spent in Thailand?

Be that as it may, I do know personally a lot of current expats, and you in your posts here come across far more negative than any of them.

Perhaps no matter where you lived, you would be the type who looks at the glass being half empty, so probably would not do you any good to live elsewhere, you would still be a constant complainer and naysayer.

[Lefty]

(Stogie @ Jun. 14 2009,07:40)

(indianajones @ Jun. 14 2009,20:11) Ok, so Buddhism is great for when your taxi is running late, but not quite so good when you are faced with economic meltdown or say the Khmer Rouge...

 That's a great line!  

What's great about it? No other religions are practiced by countries with economic problems?
Would Christianity have prevented the Khmer Rouge? I guess like it prevented everything Hitler did in Europe back in his day.

[indianajones]

you assume way to much mate...

Again, try actually living and working here before passing comment on how wonderful Thailand is.

Its a 3rd world country you know?

Also i know many many expats here , and we all love a good moan about the ridiculous aspects of living here, its all in good fun and you cant help but laugh at such things as when the Thai governments response to falling tourist numbers is to crack down on multiple entry tourist visa's, meaning a lot of old hands have fucked off to Vietnam.

That sort of thing happens an awful lot here

I love Thailand and its my home, but by the fucking christ it is a deeply flawed and frustrating place to live and work.

Oh, and try getting a working visa these days....

If we all lived like most Thai's there would be no internet and we would be drinking Leo outside 7/11 playing checkers with the bottletops

[indianajones]

(Lefty @ Jun. 16 2009,00:31)

(Stogie @ Jun. 14 2009,07:40)

(indianajones @ Jun. 14 2009,20:11) Ok, so Buddhism is great for when your taxi is running late, but not quite so good when you are faced with economic meltdown or say the Khmer Rouge...

 That's a great line!  

What's great about it? No other religions are practiced by countries with economic problems?
Would Christianity have prevented the Khmer Rouge? I guess like it prevented everything Hitler did in Europe back in his day.

It depends on how much you know about Buddism and the way its construed here.

For example, the Khmers have known full well where all the KR leadership have been living for the last 25 years (In bloody big houses in Phnom Penh) but they have done nothing to bring them to justice.

The current trials are very much western driven, btw

Ask people in Cambodia and they will say something like "well they are leading a great life now, but next time they will come back as a snail" or whatever. So why bother putting them on trial?


As for the Thais charming "mai pen rai, i dont care if my taxi is late because i have nothing of importance to do whatsoever" attitude, well ill let someone who knows far more about that than i do, Boss Hogg tell you about the downside of the wonderful 3rd world nirvana that in Thailand

The downside is the dirt and the lack of respect. You need to know what your priorities are. For a single guy living in a high rise, having fun, this is a great, great town. But, to attempt to raise a family here I think it is the wrong set of values, the wrong life lessons. I have said it before, especially for females, there is a definite glass ceiling for their growth which we had in America too 30 years ago. But the biggest thing is that there is no respect.

I don€™t know about New Zealand, your country, but in America, we have neighbourhoods, we have subdivisions, that basically, they are all clean. There is a pride of ownership. Everyone keeps their yards up, their houses are kept up, the kids play together, the streets are spotless. There is nothing in Thailand like that. Even at 65 million baht for a house, there is nothing like that. The majority of Thais have nothing to aspire to. They will never leave their poverty. There are no social status jumpers here. The majority are in the back woods, 75 years behind modern times. Most of us reside in Bangkok which is a metropolis and it is easy to forget that this is a third world country. They cannot come out with a master plan in Bangkok because there is too much corruption. Everyone pays to circumvent the plan for their own benefit. It's self greed for the poor and the rich.

When you drive out of your small subdivision here, villages they call them here, you are looking at trash in the street, people selling outside your front door, no respect for your property rights. Everyone scrambling to make a living. Educating these people will be a long drawn out process.

Outside of some ocean communities, Thailand is not a pretty place. I don€™t care what anyone says. New Zealand, France, Australia, Italy, now those are pretty places.
Thailand, I mean there are a few mountains here which are green and look nice but they are few and far between.

If you are going to live in a middle class area, for it to be middle class for you, you€™d have to go to the high class for Thailand. And again, what future does a half Thai and half non-Thai child have in Thailand? You know? They are not going to marry the doctor €“ the doctor€™s family won€™t allow it.

It is like buying a Ferrari. Why do these idiots buy them in Thailand? There is nowhere to drive the thing! Did I tell you the story about the parents who should be arrested for child abuse?

No, I don't think so. Go on.

I know this woman here. She has lived here since she was two. She is 25 now, went to an international school. Speaks perfect English, fluent Thai, invaluable to me at times. She has never washed her own clothes, she has never cleaned her house, she has never washed dishes. She may now get married and move to the US and is scared to death because she has no domestic skills. I looked at her one day and said that this was the same as child abuse. She has a boyfriend in America who went to an international school with her here then the father was transferred back to the US. They have reunited several years later and her immigration papers have been approved and she is going to the US on a fiancé visa. She said to me she does not know how to clean a house or wash a dish...

My life has changed. I am not preaching. If I was single I would be back here. Absolutely. It is just not a place to have a child grow up and give them the best life lessons. They need to learn what is out in the world and that they have the opportunity to be or do anything in life they may desire. Schooling, I do not believe in a school for profit system which is what the international schools here are. It wouldn€™t be fair to the child to stay here, education wise, moral wise. It is just not right. The kids here, they learn nothing. They do not learn to make their beds. At 8, they bitch at the driver! That is no way to raise kids in my eyes. But everyone is free to do what they want.

And where do you go? On a Sunday or a Saturday? I have a home in Hua Hin and I do not even want to go there. It is not that nice there when you get there. Jelly fish plague the beach nine months of the year. I have got massage tables and squatters on the beach in front of my house. It is not like going to San Diego, San Francisco, Australia or New Zealand. Everything is a fight. The roads are a fight, the traffic is a fight. You cannot relax, any time.

It is a great place for a single guy, no question about it.

For a married guy the equation changes?

Yeah, absolutely. That is the truth, honestly.

A bit OT, but very truthful

Its not until you are around it everyday that you see that an awful lot of Thai's just dont give a toss about, well, anything.



But, you wont be told, ok Thailand is amazing, Buddism is the answer to everything (except actually moving ANYTHING forward)


sanuk

[indianajones]

I agree with a lot of what you say here. I notice most Thais seldom get stressed over things that upset many falang when back home. Does the concept of road rage like we can see back home, exist to any great degree in Thailand? I recall one particular taxi ride up Sukhumvit a few years ago at rush hour or close to it that seemed to personify to me how many Thais deal with situations that would get to a lot of farang if they are back home. The taxi driver was just so relaxed. When the traffic moved again, he would fly up the next jam of cars at the next light. Then once there, he stopped and went into some other mode, just humming some Thai song softly to himself, totally relaxed and at peace with the world, seemingly oblivious and unconcerned with the sea of bumper to bumper cars all around us.

Yeah, but an awful lot of them do the same thing if a building is on fire...

The reason he is humming a Thai song, is that he has no desire whatsoever to make his situation better, he was born poor and low class and he will die poor and low class. Its very easy to be stress free if you dont care about anything

I think Buddhism is the best religion in the world in that it's tenants help the practitioners of it better cope with the day to day stresses of life. I think this helps Thais a lot. They don't seem to so readily stress out and worry about things they cannot change or control, like a good number of westerners do. I would say, thank Buddha for that.

Unfortunately many Thais dont get stressed out and worry about things they can do something about.

i remember losing $1400 on flights to Dubai because my girlfriend at the time, wouldnt leave the house until she make feel good (she was doing a Masters in Computer Science at the time, btw)

Mai pan rai, she said, what can i do?

Im not having a go at you, just trying to let you know that your views on Thailand may be a little rose tinted..

[Stogie]

Thailand is the only country on earth where tourists know more than ex-pats...

Another zinger!  

I've been given loads of advice from a pale white arse perched on bar stools in Bangkok and Pattaya about where I have got it all wrong!

It takes a few years but your body and mind changes. You eventually adapt and assume the habits that you used to find annoying and frustrating.

What makes me laugh is the amount of visitors and local English news items (in print and on TV) that whine about the pot holes in Pattaya. So why don't any of the expats and toruists grab a spade and fill them in, eh?

Nothing wrong with having a good moan. In fact it's therapeutic! But don't be expected to be taken seriously if you come here once or twice a year, stay in a hotel and hang out with other pale arses complaining about how we have got it all wrong and what YOU would do!

Thais are an unmovable force. You had better move along if you think you can move them along!  

[Stogie]

Buddhism is a pathetic religion... but whatever gets you through the day.

[bigmick22]

(Insert name of religion here) is a pathetic religion

[Lefty]

Exactly. They are all used primarily as a tool for the powerful to control the lower classes.

[manarak]

nice to see some "counterpunch" here.

who wrote the long text?

some bits aren't quite objective:

Thailand, I mean there are a few mountains here which are green and look nice but they are few and far between.

huh?
Phang na bay, the Islands around Phuket is one of nicest spots on earth.
Then some national parks, Kanchanaburi, Erawan... absolutely stunning!

There are no social status jumpers here.

hmm. 50% of Thailand's richest are "new money".

The kids here, they learn nothing.

In which school did that guy send his children?

in America, we have neighbourhoods, we have subdivisions, that basically, they are all clean.

ROFLMAO!
Has this guy ever been to Los Angeles suburbs? I'm sure there are more interesting areas, but that's the only one I have seen with my eyes...
Then in Thailand, I have been at the Siam Country Club villas... it was quite clean.

The majority are in the back woods, 75 years behind modern times.

What are modern times exactly?
Selling one's soul in return for some consumer products?

If you are going to live in a middle class area, for it to be middle class for you, you€™d have to go to the high class for Thailand.

Middle class is disappearing in Europe (I don't know about the US).
Statistics show that the rich become richer, at the expense of the higher and average middle class, whose buying power declines rapidly, and even more rapidly if measured in real terms, i.e. standard values in real estate or cost of another person's work.

Everyone keeps their yards up, their houses are kept up,

yeah? well, in Thailand I'll pay other people to do that for me.

And where do you go? On a Sunday or a Saturday? I have a home in Hua Hin and I do not even want to go there. It is not that nice there when you get there. Jelly fish plague the beach nine months of the year. I have got massage tables and squatters on the beach in front of my house. It is not like going to San Diego, San Francisco, Australia or New Zealand.

Hehe, here it is, the Saturday-Sunday and yard thinking!
That's a guy who would better have stayed home, in the protection of a corporation and western laws.
There is no saturday or sunday for me. Business never sleeps. If I want to make squatters and massage tables disappear, I go and sponsor tea money to the leftnant and his colleagues. And I don't see a problem with that.
And I've plenty of ideas what to do in Thailand besides shagging.
Golfing, picknick on some Island, a tour in the "wild", some snorkeling or diving, jetski, paying the aquapark a visit, flying, ...

Everything is a fight. The roads are a fight, the traffic is a fight. You cannot relax, any time.

That's the best one!
Over here (Switzerland), everything is forbidden or expensive!
Relaxing is expensive!
Frustration all the time!
(read on to understand)


But I understand what you and the long text author are saying.

I come from an exactly opposite situation.
I live in Switzerland.

Over here almost everything is either forbidden, expensive or unpleasant, but on the other hand everything is safe, healthy and organized.

Living standards are very high (on the paper), but a 5 room apartment in the city is out of reach because it costs about 1.3 million USD.
Even I did get good money (among the 5% highest earners in Switzerland), I would have to work about 30 to 40 years to pay that apartment.
Paying a personal employee is also out of reach, as the minimum wage would have absorbed 60% of my net income. Employees are only for the super-rich over here.
If you measure living standard by consumer products which will break after 3 to 10 years of service (money spent for nothing, almost), then yes, living standard is good here.

There are very much laws (in most companies it is forbidden to accept presents from business partners exceeding 200 USD). People are flogging themselves with laws, policies and what not.
Restaurants tend to count how many pieces of bread you ate and charge you for the bread.

Some ten years ago, a foreign colleague drove a swiss colleague to work and briefly stopped the car where is was not allowed to get out and buy cigarettes and the paper. when he came back, the swiss colleague had called the traffic police so that they could write a ticket...

At my company, people get angry over some excel table or a powerpoint presentation.
Hotel bookings have to be approved by a managing director (!!!).
But projects delivering nothing and getting late don't upset them.
Pure Kafka nonsense.

All food you get here is expensive or not tasty.
Paid 15 dollars at the public swimmingpool the other day for a roast sausage (90g) and a handful of french fries.
For my whole family (wife, 2 small children), the "snack" cost 45 dollars. Thanks. I would lije to emphasize public swimmingpool.

Everything is designed to reduce costs to the minimum and rip off the customers to the maximum.

Service is non-existent, people are angry at you when you approach the food stand at the swimmingpool to order something.

Society over here is designed to hold you back on any risks.
People are 'designed' to be afraid of losing money, so a lot of entrepreneurs are foreigners.
Someone with parents and with a diploma would never risk losing the few he has by beginning a business...

The whole society here is built for average people.
There are an awful lot of rules in place, implicit or explicit, which protect and promote the average guys, and which obstruct the way for people who are better at what they do.

This is a deliberate philosophy here. For example, there is still no specialized education for gifted children over here.

People over here succeed when they have built a nice "network".
Basically, that's like jerking each other off and intriguing until they get promoted. It's all like a "big family". But no one takes risks or says his mind. It is all hypocrisy and false-arsedness as we say in french.

It is those 'networked' people who always put pressure on others, squeeze everything until the last drop, increase sales targets from one year to another.
It is the same people who think all appointments are important, who stress over a powerpoint, who put stupid procedures in place.

Those people have and use the power to say no, but wouldn't dare to say yes without the support of their "network".
It is like a conspiracy of the average.


The whole thing here is just a big heap of frustration.

There is not enough difference in income levels for a real service industry to work.
Can you tell me why successful lawyers or bankers live in 150 square meter apartments and have to cook or clean the home themselves?

Fixed costs of living are too high here for people to dare doing "their own thing".

But a clever guy has almost no chance inside a corporation, except if he turns bad into a little Machiavel and networks a lot or if he switches off his brain and becomes a soulless robot.
I have seen many clever soulless robots during my banking career.
They are able to sustain a conversation about current general topics and news because they read the paper in the morning during their 90 minute (one way) commute.
They can seem amazingly interested when discussing business topics, repeating the same argument from different angles a dozen times, as if I were dumb.
But when it comes to hobbies or special interests, there's often nothing.
Most of them spend all their time working and looking after their family and seem happy doing that. Fascinating.
Pure robot life, like in "the sims", a game which I hate.
The "long text author" writes about people without perspectives in Thailand... Now how do the soulless robots compare?
Many of them work in IT, by the way.


Everyone always wants to optimize and to get "more", even if they are well-off already.

I can't understand that.
At last if I had a house in every place I liked and a private jet, I would stop trying to get always more and enjoy life instead.


But no, some people have to keep stressing others.


And what do the children learn over here?
They learn to be average, to blend in.

Sorry, it is not what I want for my children.
I plan to send them in a very good private school (yes, in Thailand).
I want that they learn to deal with other's poverty.

Children over here also learn to be naive and safe.
They believe what they are told (you should see the kind of commercials for teenagers over here), and they believe everyone follows the law.
There is an amazing amount of fraud victims here (like they sent money to someone in Russia by Western Union, because they believed they bought a large TV).

Children over here are tought that everything must be safe and organized.
They believe Switzerland is superior to the whole world, because it is safer and cleaner.
People here are lawful. Overly lawful, like in the above example of the swiss colleague.
But here you can really see pedestrians stopping at 4 o'clock in the morning at a red pedestrian light, without any cars to be seen.

I want my children to learn that there are other things than the law.
I want them to learn how to deal with thieves, with thug-types and with people who misuse their power.

I want that beyond passing the school exams and getting to university, because that is the society's wish, they broaden their views to see an ocean of opportunities, not a depressing grey maze of corporate threadmills.


Over here, live is so long-term oriented that people behave like they are immortal.
IT system projects get launched with a duration of 15 years.
People seem ready to do everything to have more money when they are old.
They refuse the pleasures of today for the hope of better enjoyment when they will be retiring... at 65.
LOL
fucktards.
Ask someone who is 65 if it was worth waiting!
I'm trying to jump off the shitty train at 35.

Society is totally masoschistic here.
The green city government reduces roads in order to make the traffic problems go away.
What a bunch of retards!
Less cars, less traffic... yes, but less shops too... Now parts of the city are desertifying due to shops and businesses closing down because their customers cannot easily reach them anymore... idiot greens.

People over here are so strange that on two occasions I had flyers in my postal box, urging me to spend my summer holiday at home, to avoid CO2 emissions. huh?
Totally retarded.



So... that was about my life in Switzerland.

I do not like "stressers".
They are unnecessary parasites of happyness.

If you are good at what you do, you take effective measures to ensure your success, which also means adapting to the environment.
You don't always bitch at everything telling that it's not like at home.
If you are good at what you do, you welcome a difficult environment, because it will make you stand out.


I know someone who came to Thailand when he was 20 years old (he's now 50 I believe), without anything.
Today he holds a Thai passport, owns several businesses and is a rich man.
And I know he has friends who did the same.



Thailand of course isn't the answer to all the above problems.

But I expect many things to be different in Thailand, and that it will "refresh" my life.

[Stogie]

So, Switzerland is out for my next move!

It's a sad sad sad sad sad sad world, to badly paraphrase a 60s movie title.

I'm glad I left all that nastiness behind in 1987...

[indianajones]

(manarak @ Jun. 16 2009,06:48) Blah blah blah...

(Edited for brevity - Stogie)

Sorry i should have explained that interview better. I can only imagine you dont know who Boss Hogg is?

Thailand and Nana Plaza especially would be a much, much poorer place if Boss Hogg never came here...

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/Weekly/weekly197.htm

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/Weekly/weekly199.htm

But what does he know?

Most ex-pats i know would agree with him, whilst most tourists would say he didnt know what he was talking about

[Stogie]

I'd say he was a narrow minded simpleton... but what do I know!

I enjoy his yak, but it's coming from an insecure, woman hating, ladyboy fearing, skinny fuckwad from New Zealand...

Reading Stickman is like reading the Daily Mirror through a bucket of black paint.

Great entertainment though and of more use to people who have never been to Thailand rather than those that live here or visit regularly.

[indianajones]

(Stogie @ Jun. 16 2009,14:18) I'd say he was a narrow minded simpleton... but what do I know!

I enjoy his yak, but it's coming from an insecure, woman hating, ladyboy fearing, skinny fuckwad from New Zealand...

Reading Stickman is like reading the Daily Mirror through a bucket of black paint.

Great entertainment though and of more use to people who have never been to Thailand rather than those that live here or visit regularly.

Stickman, who i have a similar opinion of to Stogie of,  was interviewing "Boss Hogg" who was the guy who owned Hoggs Breath and Lucky Lukes in Nana, aswell as some other Nana bars.

I thought people would have known him? Been around for years

anyway, i think he's fucked off home, now

Stickman can fuck off home anytime he likes too, in my opinion

[Stogie]

I thought 'Boss Hogg' was your nick name for Stickman! Oops!

I've never heard of Boss Hogg apart from the fat sheriff in some daft American comedy show.