Underhelmed

[Ladyboy_Loser!]

I finally made it to Guess Bar last Wednesday night on my first trip back after almost four months away from home. Needless to say after all I had read about Guess Bar and the numerous photos posted here on the Forum I was very anxious to see what all the hype was about. The following report is just my impression for that one night I made there. I was very disapointed and for me that one time was enough.
I had no trouble finding the place, I even enjoyed the walk from Nana Plaza as I had never been past Nana before. A lot of bars and lots of ladys to look at. As I approached Guess Bar there were two groups of LB'S on either side of the door. As I entered the bar the very first thing I noticed was just how damn dark the place was. Don't they ever pay the electric bill? Next thing to notice was how small the place appeared to be. For me at this point, Guess Bar had all the charm of a bus stop. Looking around, I saw that there was only one other customer in the place and it was only a little after 11:00 p.m. When my eyes finally did adjust to the lack of lightning I noticed that the couch on the left was packed with LB's huddled under blankets and the rest were just hanging around the pool tables. I sat the bar and was asking myself what all the hype was about. The place lacked charm, warmth, ambience and I was about to head out the door with half a Singha beer still on the bar. At this point one of the LB'S pulled herself away from the pool tables and came my way. I immediatly recognized her as Ohm. Finally something was spot on, everything said sbout her looks and charm are 100% correct. She sat with me and we talked for about thirty minutes before the "I go with you" came up. Wanting to not have have wasted my time coming to Guess Bar, I payed her bar fine and back to my hotel we went. In the ride back to my hotel Ohm got a call from one of her friends from the bar who was with a customer but was pissed off because the guy was taking too long. At this point I knew that Short Time was going to be Ohms version of Short Time. No problem as I had told her 1500 Baht was the going rate and I would not try to keep her longer than an hour. In my room we got down to business and it was all I could ask for.
So, summing up, Guess Bar, in my opinion needs to address the lack of lightning and ambience. After all I had read about the place when it was on Soi 1 I left there asking "is that all there is?" A major letdown and I don't forsee a return. After all with Obsession Bar and Cascade Bar nearby I really won't miss Guess Bar. Too bad, I was hoping for a positive experiance.

[stogie bear]

As the location has changed so has the business model.

There was a warmth of character in the old place. They seemed pleased to see you.

My visits to the new bar seemed to be met with disinterest bordering on contempt. I don't think the forum has much value to the bar any longer and unlike the previous Guess Bar the new one seems deliberately designed so that you will leave as soon as possible.

It's way to dark, the music is just horrible (and sometimes too loud) and you can't ever get on the pool table because the staff are on it all the time.

The (new) Guess Bar seems to be in search of a direction to follow. No two nights are the same. Maybe it will settle down and become more welcoming in the future. I notice that meet ups are going back to Lucky Lukes and Big Dogs nowadays and in the past they would almost always be in The Guess Bar.

With the wealth of new talent there it sure is a better place to scout for action... but that was never the reason I ever went there - not even once. Guys like me are just not good business!

[thaibound]

Perhaps "underhelmed" was not a typo after all.

[Guest]

Ouch, this sure gave GB a black eye. (For the first time?)
I seem to be the only one who likes the new GB better than the old one.
Not perfect though, the music sucks goat balls and are way too loud.
A certain lb attends the bar almost every night, not sure if she´s working there though.
All she does is give the costumers grief if they don´t go st with her within 5 mins., when she´s not throwing drinks around.

On the plus side tho, lots of new very nice girls, 2 pool tables so i can lose money to Jenny. The location is great. Jay is cool

[looktoyou]

Always thought the pool tables were a bad idea.  

The business would lose focus, ie is it a pool hall or a bar.  Of course the girls were going to spend time on that rather than with customers.

Cheers

[TTChang]

(rick @ Feb. 01 2008,18:30) I seem to be the only one who likes the new GB better than the old one.

  Yes, i'm now sure that Pattaya has frazzled your grey matter!!

But I'm still a Guess Bar enthusiast.   Great set of LBs, especially the new ones (with respect   to Mimy, Jenny, et al).   And I also enjoy Gong as Chief Rabbi ... oops ... whatever he is - despite the original campaign to get him lynched  

I agree about the staff monopolizing the pool tables (and doing 150 decibel shreaks over missed shots).  By the way, can anybody tell me how to get a game of pool at Guess Bar (except at 6.30pm?)

'Better than Soi 1'   ....   not for me, and not for Jay I suspect.   It was a 'quick fix' to keep the bar open - and I want to continue to support it  

[stogie bear]

Still Jay did well to find this place in my opinion , lets hope one of the area's to either side becomes available and Jay can expand much like in the way of the 1st Guess Bar...

Yes, I hope so too. I used to feel a rush walking into the Soi1 bar complex and making my way up the stairs to the old comfortable bar where I could park my ass and relax...

Hopefully those times will once again return. But right now a couple of easy fixes would be to turn the lights UP and the music DOWN.

It's just a shame that the bar caters 100% to the staff and not in any degree to the customers. It didn't start out that way.

[Guest]

I returned to GB last week for the first time for about a year. It was OK, some girls friendly some not (but my second name is not Robert Redford so I do not expect too much). But the shock came when I suggested to Jay (very politely I can assure you) that the music was too loud. I am not sure what she said but what I do know is that she stormed off, sat in a corner, did nothing about the music and was, clearly, very pissed off with the comment. Glad to note I am not alone on this issue, some people never listen.

[mardhi]

(PogueMahone @ Feb. 01 2008,07:57) I finally made it to Guess Bar last Wednesday night on my first trip back after almost four months away from home.  Needless to say after all I had read about Guess Bar and the numerous photos posted here on the Forum I was very anxious to see what all the hype was about.  The following report is just my impression for that one night I made there.  I was very disapointed and for me that one time was enough.
I had no trouble finding the place, I even enjoyed the walk from Nana Plaza as I had never been past Nana before.  A lot of bars and lots of ladys to look at.  As I approached Guess Bar there were two groups of LB'S on either side of the door.  As I entered the bar the very first thing I noticed was just how damn dark the place was.  Don't they ever pay the electric bill?  Next thing to notice was how small the place appeared to be.  For me at this point, Guess Bar had all the charm of a bus stop.  Looking around, I saw that there was only one other customer in the place and it was only a little after 11:00 p.m.  When my eyes finally did adjust to the lack of lightning I noticed that the couch on the left was packed with LB's huddled under blankets and the rest were just hanging around the pool tables. I sat the bar and was asking myself what all the hype was about.  The place lacked charm, warmth, ambience and I was about to head out the door with half a Singha beer still on the bar.  At this point one of the LB'S pulled herself away from the pool tables and came my way.  I immediatly recognized her as Ohm.  Finally something was spot on, everything said sbout her looks and charm are 100% correct.  She sat with me and we talked for about thirty minutes before the "I go with you" came up.  Wanting to not have have wasted my time coming to Guess Bar, I payed her bar fine and back to my hotel we went.  In the ride back to my hotel Ohm got a call from one of her friends from the bar who was with a customer but was pissed off because the guy was taking too long.  At this point I knew that Short Time was going to be Ohms version of Short Time.  No problem as I had told her 1500 Baht was the going rate and I would not try to keep her longer than an hour.  In my room we got down to business and it was all I could ask for.
So, summing up, Guess Bar, in my opinion needs to address the lack of lightning and ambience.  After all I had read about the place when it was on Soi 1 I left there asking "is that all there is?"  A major letdown and I don't forsee a return.  After all with Obsession Bar and Cascade Bar nearby I really won't miss Guess Bar.  Too bad, I was hoping for a positive experiance.

Sounds more like the experience was not as you had pictured it rather than anything being particulary wrong with the 'hype' as you call it. Nobody has ever said the bar was big, nor a brightly lit bar. Given that I have posted photos of both the inside and outside, seems kinda surprising that you had built up this picture in your mind, which was not as you found. Presumably, the hassle factor was minimal ?, Presumably the beer was at the correct temperature?, presumably your check bin was not loaded with drinks you had not ordered? and the girl (in this case Ohm), did not steal anything or do anything untoward?

Sounds to me like the bar did everything it says it would, yet your own EXPECTATION was not in line with what the bar actually does. Its not a gogo, its not a big place and the 'hype' as you call it, tends to be opinions coming from people who like it for what it is. Certainly I have never 'hyped' the bar - my postings are always factual and not commentary based on how good, or bad something is. At the end of the day, its a minimal hassle smallish ladyboy bar that has 27 staff and is owned and operated by a ladyboy. Does it do things perfectly? Nope but where does. Do check bins get loaded with drinks not ordered? - never heard of one example yet. Do they have the lighting too low in the bar? probably, but many say they prefer it that way.

Is Jay resting on her laurels? No - she plans to continue modifying the bar once low season hits to take account of peoples suggestions and ideas - hopefully by then she will have saved up some money to pay for the modifications she has in mind - dont forget this is no big time business here - she has to ensure she has enough money to pay the salaries of her employees, drink supplies, rent and countless other expenses. Dropping over 500,000baht may not be a lot to you, but I can assure you it totally cleaned her out when she had to move locations and all the costs that go with it.

How is the bar doing? Revenue is considerably higher since moving to Soi 4 into a smaller unit. She did not move out of choice remember and probably had she had more time to plan/save for this - she probably would not have moved into this unit, however in the circumstances and with the money she had available, she did not have much choice and all credit to her for pulling it off, refitting it and opening BEFORE being thrown out of the old unit. You may recall the Big Mango - 3 months after closing in Nana, they have still not been able to secure a new lease. Its probably for that reason, that the bar continues to have the same team of staff working there since when they opened. Of course, others have come and gone, but 15 months later most of the original team are still there.

Cheers
Mardhi

[mardhi]

(stogie bear @ Feb. 01 2008,18:58)

Still Jay did well to find this place in my opinion , lets hope one of the area's to either side becomes available and Jay can expand much like in the way of the 1st Guess Bar...

Yes, I hope so too. I used to feel a rush walking into the Soi1 bar complex and making my way up the stairs to the old comfortable bar where I could park my ass and relax...

Hopefully those times will once again return. But right now a couple of easy fixes would be to turn the lights UP and the music DOWN.

It's just a shame that the bar caters 100% to the staff and not in any degree to the customers. It didn't start out that way.

Within the limitations of what she has today, I still think she is doing a very good job - she has still got to clearly define though what is the bars music policy - one of her biggest annoyances is the huge variance in feedback on music ranging from its perfect (dont change a thing) to its too damn loud and modern (ie change everything).

As it is, I struggle to keep reminding her that her typical customer is not into a modern range of music and her reply, well thats whats being played in gogo's and they are busy so if it works for them, thats what she is going to do. Having said all that, I equally cant argue with her when she tells me, "well if the music is so bad/loud and the lighting so dark, how is it that the revenue is 50% higher (than when she was in Soi 1)" Again, hard sales numbers are difficult to argue against especially when its making HER more money as customers ARE staying longer than before and spending more money in the bar itself.

Funny enough, the happy hour has been a total flop - they are selling no more drink in that period than a year ago - clearly the lower drink price is not a motivator to the average customer. I suspect she will drop that and continue adding more salaried staff instead.

Cheers
Mardhi

[mardhi]

(stogie bear @ Feb. 01 2008,11:48) As the location has changed so has the business model.

There was a warmth of character in the old place. They seemed pleased to see you.

My visits to the new bar seemed to be met with disinterest bordering on contempt. I don't think the forum has much value to the bar any longer and unlike the previous Guess Bar the new one seems deliberately designed so that you will leave as soon as possible.

It's way to dark, the music is just horrible (and sometimes too loud) and you can't ever get on the pool table because the staff are on it all the time.

The (new) Guess Bar seems to be in search of a direction to follow. No two nights are the same. Maybe it will settle down and become more welcoming in the future. I notice that meet ups are going back to Lucky Lukes and Big Dogs nowadays and in the past they would almost always be in The Guess Bar.

With the wealth of new talent there it sure is a better place to scout for action... but that was never the reason I ever went there - not even once. Guys like me are just not good business!

I dont think thats the real issue, its probably got a lot more to do with Jay and Gong both being totally worn out.    Gong has just taken 5 days off and Jay certainly needs to take some time out and get out of the bar for a few days - I can see how both of them are totally drained.        Of course it does not help when I pointed out to Jay 4 months ago that both she and Gong needed some help - they were trying to do too much between them when it was obvious to anyone close to the situation was only going to get worse.     As it is, Jays sister (the real GG) is now down in BKK and working behind the bar (when she is not on some Thai internet chat site   ).          

They still have some issues to address and handle but dont lose sight of the fact that unlike many other businesses, they ARE still going, ARE still profitable and ARE still going at it.    You can talk about the quality of music etc, footrails, but at the end of the day, a business is in business to make money - goodwill does not pay the bills as perhaps some other businesses have found out - one thing makes it work and thats cash hitting the till, day in and day out.       Jay is still very customer focused, its for that reason she said no to putting up drink prices - I actually said, you should think about it - everybody has after wholesale prices went up recently.    

Recognising what they have been through, I still find it hard to be overly critical - her business performance in opening, recruiting staff, extending space, open another, closing the first and keeping the business running at a profit for every month its been open is nothing short of staggering considering the odds of failure.     I have seen a lot more highly educated people fail with half the challenges she has faced.      

Cheers
Mardhi

[PigDogg]

(mardhi @ Feb. 01 2008,09:19)   Presumably, the hassle factor was minimal ?,

when I read the original post I was thinking that it's great PM could sit at the bar and be left alone!

[katoeylover]

I like the new bar. yes its different, and yes it is not perfect but it still has Jay and Gong and all the girls. i prefer not to be hassled and when i asked for the music to be changed, Gong did it - no problem.

I think the biggest problem is we expect too much all the time and when Guess doesnt live up to expectations then there are people ready to jump all over it.

I hope they do get next door and expand, but imho, its quite nice as it is and its much nicer hanging there than any of the other Bkk ladyboy bars.

[stogie bear]

There's no doubt in my mind that Jay is directing the business along towards the financial goals she has set.

What I and a few people here say/think/do won't change a thing. It hasn't to date so it won't in the future. The Foot rail issue was extremely bad PR.

I hope she has success and the bar turns out the way she wants it to... but that tangent she is leaning toward is leaving many of us behind. Nothing wrong with that - I was a crap spender anyway!

Like I said earlier - it's early days... the bar seems to be having a crisis of identity...

She wants to turn over the girls as quickly as possible, partly by making it uncomfortable for the punters... (too dark, too loud, too cramped inside.)

This wasn't the case with the old Guess Bar where people who wanted to drink only were made to feel like a part of The Guess Bar family.

So her and Gong are worn out, eh? I wonder where THEY go to have a drink when they are all done in... Maybe they like poorly lit noisy bars!

Middle aged men don't like poorly lit noisy bars and she knows this. Be honest - right now the bar is for the staff. Luckily enough punters come by and make this profitable.

I'd like to get back into the habit of popping by there once or twice a week to meet all my chums from this site... but there will have to be wholesale changes and a real change in attitude to keep me from running up a bar tab at Lucky Lukes.

If she really wants to pioneer a new way to entertain ladyboy admirers then get a bigger bar away from that shit hole hotel and get back to what made her a house hold name in the first place... Girls, atmosphere, service and class.

Now that she's done it in the past and made it work I'm absolutely sure someone will come along and do it again if she drops the ball.

La Bamba bar is the best bar in Pattaya because it stole it's identity in large part to what The Guess Bar was a year ago. It's bound to work because it is the ONLY BAR in Pattaya where guys can meet up, sit at the bar and actually STAY THERE in comfort and feeling relaxed.

In the end if you are in business purely to make money then it's gonna work out just fine.

What we say or want has little to no impact in the way the business is run. Enough of us will keep popping back to shag the meat and enough new punters will go to do the same.

[mardhi]

I dont think its an identity crisis, I do think its an evolution to making a more financially viable business. The rent alone in that smaller unit is far higher than what she paid before - she does not have the luxury of leaving things to chance and I would do exactly the same thing she has done from a business perspective. She manages costs very tightly, yet still delivers a workforce that has grown by about 30% within last month. Without going into details, a casual observer in business management could infer, that if change is being undertaken, there is a reason for it. Sometimes the model, while appealing, is not financially viable. Just look at the 3 Pattaya LB bars closing or needing to move in last couple months.

However these changes are not dramatic - to many they are not even noticable, but she quite rightly needs to re-coup the investment and the old model of 8-10 staff did not provide for that, as to put it bluntly, the punters became bored of seeing the same faces all the time - infact that was probably one of the biggest issues highlighted in the old bar. Conversely she saw first hand what happened over New year when 8 of the top staff, paid their own barfines (held down at regular 500b) and all went home for new year, leaving the bar massively understaffed. I suspect what your seeing is more of Jay becoming a confident business woman and rightly or wrongly (and time will tell), more confident in reaching her own conclusions on things and following through. Not many can do it - but I have seen a huge change in the last year in her own confidence level as far as business is concerned. She is learning not to leave things to chance and to try and anticipate things, rather than reacting when they do. As I say, I dont see that as a crisis of identity, its definately though a sign of a more commercially orientated approach in how she runs her business. As I have said, all along, its her business, not mine - she needs to make it work for her or it will go under - there are no other options and had she continued following the old model and structure for costs and income, I can promise you, Guess bar would have gone out of business before the next high season comes around as it simply could not generate enough income on that model to cover the costs it now has to meet. Its as easy as looking at historic income levels and using current costs to determine, the red ink would have been all over the page. And dont forget a smoking ban comes into effect this month iside air conditioned bars - time will tell what happens on that score, but as a straw poll, jay and I spoke about whom she considered the 20 largest spenders in the bar. Of those, 15 are smokers. Again, its something else she needs to manage as the landscape continues to evolve.

Cheers
Mardhi