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  • (alan1chef @ Jun. 01 2009,13:30) Smuttley, the economy is in the tank now because of runaway growth during the two terms of good-ole-boy Bill, who stopped the Fed from putting on the brakes.
    Runaway growth is really too simplistic an explanation to explain the state of the US economy.

    The initial source of all the money that fuelled the runaway growth was the escalation in the money supply by Alan Greenspan under the watch of Bill Clinton.

    Eager to deliver a surplus budget, Clinton gave Greenspan the nod to do whatever it took to boost the economy & leave him with a sound fiscal legacy.

    The flood of money worked, but after it had worked its way through the system, it had to find a home. Initially it re-appeared as the driver of the dot.com boom. Billions of dollars looking for somewhere to be "parked" drove prices to insane levels.

    This inevitably led to a bust but Greenspan, having appeared to be a financial whizz, was given free reign to continue & was madly adding more money to the pot. What were the banks to do with it now? This time it was decided that bricks & mortar was a far safer bet.

    With billions to place, 1000's of mortgage brokers appeared around the country, all eager to capture the generous commissions on offer. No practical application was refused but the big bucks were to be made by lending to those who could never qualify for a loan.

    Only in America could a system be devised that made more money for the brokers by having them lend to people who couldn't possibly meet the repayments. And to ensure the loans would be made, the brokers didn't hesitate to commit fraud on the applications.

    Soon enough the banks woke up to the fact that they had lent out a lot of money that would not be repaid. These sub-prime loans had to be moved on, shifted off their balance sheets.

    But who would touch this stuff if they knew the truth?

    This is where the real criminality came in. The Wall Street Banksters in collusion with the ratings agencies schemed to bundle up some good debt with a heap of sub-prime debt, had it all declared AAA & flogged them off.

    These Collateralised Debt Obligations (CDOs) were sold to Central Banks, Sovereign Funds, anyone who had a billion or two looking for the safest assets available. It was then sold off to major depositors, hence we see local councils around the world losing all their public funds. Not just towns are effected, whole countries will follow Iceland into financial destruction thanks to this obscenity.

    America's allies have been betrayed, in fact everyone who America now desperately needs to buy their Treasury Bills find themselves owning this sub-prime debt with no re-dress.

    It may have been a surmountable problem. Maybe. But we will never know because in his determination to be seen to be doing something, Hank Paulson, head of the US Treasury & one-time boss of Goldman Sachs made the gleeful decision to let Lehman Brothers collapse.

    His happiness at triumphing over his arch-rival was short lived. By the next day, it had been pointed out to him that each of the big 8 Wall Street banks had effectively guaranteed each others debt & by cutting loose Lehman, he had in effect unravelled the safety network where each bank was locked into supporting every other.

    The 700 billion bail-out package that was then forced through Congress at gunpoint is a drop in the bucket to what is now needed to save the system. Some 3 to 4 trillion have "leaked" into the major banks but another 50 trillion at least is needed to save them.

    IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!!

    By then, the US dollar will be worthless. Which ironically is the only way that the debt can be repaid. Hyperinflate the dollar a-la-Zimbabwe & the 50 or so trillion may be enough to do the weekly shopping.
    Despite the high cost of living, it continues to be popular.

    Comment


    • Geezer, looks like you do have a handle on the history, but WHY do you think the USA needs to do ANYTHING, in Afpak???

      It's not your area. Just stay away and watch it calm down. It's now matter of tribal *honour* that FORTY MILLION Pashtun are going to fight the INVADERS. That's you, USA. Now think about it from the other side. If it was YOU that was being invaded...... 911 has NOTHING to do with this. To bring it up is a spurious side show. It's my contention that the USA has made the ENTIRE region worse than it was pre 2001, but for NO gain, apart from massive sales of military hard ware. Perhaps one of the few things keeping the USA economy afloat. What a sad thought!

      Comment


      • >Torurot, I don't understand how you can say that Kim Jong-il is a "straw men bogey" when it is a fact that he tortures his own people into submission. I rate him up there with Idi Amin Dada and Adolf Hitler in that department. If you want to ignore Kim Jong-il like the Europeans ignored Hitler, that's your opinion. >

        Al, Nth Korea is a side show.  Do you HONESTLY think China is going to *let* Jong-Il do anything serious??  He's a sick joke.    Fatal mistake putting an egotist on  the "axis of evil" list just as they had AGREED to give up their Nukes.   Another US "own goal".

        Now as to the Pot and the Kettle. Guess you heard of "rendition" of which the US a world specialist.  You "outsource" your own serious torture and do your "milder" stuff in the "homeland" and it's territories.  The USA ACTIVELY support dictators and states that torture...  for e.g you give ~5billion/yr to the Egyptian dictator/torturer.  You ACTIVELY support a number of dictator/torturers.


        So why are you now "worried" about pissy Nth K???    You need a bogey man to "warrant" your nations aggressive acts around the world.  And to get congress to cough up more for the Industrial/Military spending.  

        "Apparently" USA is all pissy because Nth K "defied" you.... That's a joke.

        I ask you again, who has Nth Korea attacked in the last 50 years?

        Comment


        • Excellent summation, Pacman...

          ...and we've a few more fiscal dramas to weather, especially in the UK!

          In the UK, pensions will not be paid. The upcoming revelations of the 'comfort factor' between the politicians and the corporations will cause people's tempers to boil over, seven million bored, restless and frustrated people will start to wake up and smell the carpet...

          Meanwhile; the brains that create industry will flee, the factories that create jobs will close. The UK will be the first of the EU major nations to collapse. Why? Because it's the only stupid country that actually abides by the letter of the law over every insane administrative hurdle that the EU is killing itself with... but the rest won't be far behind.

          Add to that the massive increase in crime to which the police have no answer, the massive influx of unskilled foreigners who are draining the resources, the overburden of the civil service who will be demanding pensions, rights, a 20 hour week and a year off to have a baby...

          We don't stand a chance. In ten years the country will be festering in a cancer of it's own making. People will wonder why it all went so wrong so quickly and the lucky few will be abroad somewhere laughing their asses off!

          Goodbye, Britain... I barely knew thee!

          Comment


          • (Torurot @ Jun. 01 2009,02:31) >Torurot, I don't understand how you can say that Kim Jong-il is a "straw men bogey" when it is a fact that he tortures his own people into submission. I rate him up there with Idi Amin Dada and Adolf Hitler in that department. If you want to ignore Kim Jong-il like the Europeans ignored Hitler, that's your opinion. >

            Al, Nth Korea is a side show. Do you HONESTLY think China is going to *let* Jong-Il do anything serious?? He's a sick joke. Fatal mistake putting an egotist on the "axis of evil" list just as they had AGREED to give up their Nukes. Another US "own goal".

            Now as to the Pot and the Kettle. Guess you heard of "rendition" of which the US a world specialist. You "outsource" your own serious torture and do your "milder" stuff in the "homeland" and it's territories. The USA ACTIVELY support dictators and states that torture... for e.g you give ~5billion/yr to the Egyptian dictator/torturer. You ACTIVELY support a number of dictator/torturers.


            So why are you now "worried" about pissy Nth K??? You need a bogey man to "warrant" your nations aggressive acts around the world. And to get congress to cough up more for the Industrial/Military spending.

            "Apparently" USA is all pissy because Nth K "defied" you.... That's a joke.

            I ask you again, who has Nth Korea attacked in the last 50 years?
            Totally agree with ya. It's totally laughable, albeit not in a humorous way, when guys like Alan compare people like Kim to Hitler. Did Hitler stay just in Germany, guard his borders, talk tough and cut off diplomatic relations with his neighbors? We know the answer to that, and that is basically all that North Korea has done since the mid 50s. If we had waited as long as we've been waiting for Kim, for Hitler to act out by invading neighboring countries, Adolf would have either died of old age or from the effects of syphilis.

            We need more guys like you in the US. Could we trade a few Alans to Australia for a Torurot? We can give Alan and Bill O'Reilly to Oz for you and pacman.
            “When a nation's young men are conservative, its funeral bell is already rung.”
            ― Henry Ward Beecher


            "Inflexibility is the worst human failing. You can learn to check impetuosity, overcome fear with confidence and laziness with discipline. But for rigidity of mind, there is no antidote. It carries the seeds of its own destruction." ~ Anton Myrer

            Comment


            • Not to buy into "conspiracy theories", but these things don't die and slips 'o the tongue often reveal more than intended.

              Cheney to Mainstream Media: Terrorists Blew Up WTC
              http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...s_911_177.html

              Comment


              • (alan1chef @ Jun. 01 2009,02:30) Smuttley, the economy is in the tank now because of runaway growth during the two terms of good-ole-boy Bill, who stopped the Fed from putting on the brakes.
                Oh Please Alan.........that is Rushspeak there. Bottom line is the budget was balanced and the deficit nil when dumbass W took over and pissed away trillions in the middle east and then compounded that by giving tax shelters to the rich and famous..........the multi-trillion dollar deficit is the responsibility of one party and that is the GOP

                You'all realize I'm just posting in this thread to show off my fantastic new avatar!!!!




                It's good to King........no matter what the pay

                Courage is being scared to death__and saddling up anyway

                Billy Jaffe, Radio Voice of the Thrashers:
                ”I have absolutely No problem with Ohio State. It has a beautiful campus, and for a Junior College it has really great Academics.”


                "Gentlemen and ladies, 'Those Who Stay Will Be Champions' is for you too. It's for every Michigan fan that's out there. When the going gets tough, you don't cut and run. It's not the Michigan way. If I heard it once from the old man, I heard it a thousand times -- when the going gets tough you find out who your real friends are, and that's why we must stay. Because there will be championships, and this staff and these kids will bring those championships here."

                Comment


                • (alan1chef @ Jun. 01 2009,02:30) Torurot, I don't understand how you can say that Kim Jong-il is a "straw men bogey" when it is a fact that he tortures his own people into submission. I rate him up there with Idi Amin Dada and Adolf Hitler in that department. If you want to ignore Kim Jong-il like the Europeans ignored Hitler, that's your opinion. You talk about the innocent people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, however that number pales in comparison to the millions killed by Hitler. FDR took action and got us out of the Great Depression but he failed to act in the international arena. Worse yet, the European leaders of the time ignored Hitler, even when they knew what he was doing. Stupid...simply stupid. I say better to act than to ignore.
                  I do agree with you here A1.......NK needs to be taken seriously especially with nuke capabilities..........granted China now that it has become more focused on being an economic power will try and control NK but Kim Jung Il is a fanatic and as such is completely unpredictable. I have spent enough time in the ROK to realize the depths of destruction that could happen should NK go off the deep end. I think we could vanquish them quick enough but not without a lot of collateral damage first. Although I much prefer Obama handling this situation then gunslinging dumbass W along with dickless cheyney




                  It's good to King........no matter what the pay

                  Courage is being scared to death__and saddling up anyway

                  Billy Jaffe, Radio Voice of the Thrashers:
                  ”I have absolutely No problem with Ohio State. It has a beautiful campus, and for a Junior College it has really great Academics.”


                  "Gentlemen and ladies, 'Those Who Stay Will Be Champions' is for you too. It's for every Michigan fan that's out there. When the going gets tough, you don't cut and run. It's not the Michigan way. If I heard it once from the old man, I heard it a thousand times -- when the going gets tough you find out who your real friends are, and that's why we must stay. Because there will be championships, and this staff and these kids will bring those championships here."

                  Comment


                  • >>I think we could vanquish them quick enough but not without a lot of collateral damage first. >>

                    Where have I heard that one before, yeah that's right, it will be a "cake walk", and "they" will throw flowers at us, and kiss our collective arses as well. Remember Fulluja, Iraq, Afghanistan & etc.


                    Take Nth K seriously, but SERIOUSLY you USA guys need a new approach to "diplomacy". The current methods you use are NOT WORKING. You keep replaying them with the SAME result. Insanity!!

                    Comment


                    • Here's another one that even Al will agree on.

                      Wall Street Braces for New Cops on the Beat
                      http://counterpunch.org/martens06012009.html
                      Pam Martens June 1, 2009

                      Counterpunch (a "left" learning publication) has many more lucid articles from Ms Martens.

                      Basically the banks (& associates) are still screwing us all!

                      Comment


                      • (Torurot @ Jun. 02 2009,13:40) >>I think we could vanquish them quick enough but not without a lot of collateral damage first. >>

                        Where have I heard that one before, yeah that's right, it will be a "cake walk", and "they" will throw flowers at us, and kiss our collective arses as well.  Remember Fulluja, Iraq, Afghanistan & etc.
                        I think what Alan is refering to is that the North Koreans have a very western approach to war. Big Decisive battles where the conflict is won or lost. The Middle Eastern tradition is different, prefering long drawn out actions where there is no decisive moment. The United States does very well with the former but not so good with the later. The trouble with Asymetirc war is it's all about perception. The United States could blow up every market in Iraq in a day if it wanted too, but if an insurgent blows up one it makes headline news. But your right Tourot. One of the biggest mistakes in Iraq was not having a plan to secure the country. In hindsight it beggars belief how this was overlooked. Never assume anything is going to be a cake walk.

                        I think however there is no military solution in Korea. The North has too much firepower in range of Seoul. It would be a disater. Also don't forget that when ever a new missle technolgy is developed in Korea it ends up in Iran in six months, adding a new dynamic to the issue. I also agree with Smuttley that I'm glad it's Obama dealing with this and not Bush but probably for different reasons. Obama's got great world wide appeal meaning he can use diplomacy to his advantage much better than Bush could. Will be interesting as it's his first major foreign policy issue. I hope he does well, as I'm sure everyone else does.
                        Beer Baron

                        Comment


                        • Geezer

                          "Funny" how Nth K having a "long" range missile is such a catastrophe , but WHERE were the howls when the USA was test firing long range ICBM down into the pacific? Putting missile "sheilds" on Russia's borders. You be OK if Russia put similar banks all over Cuba??? Thought not!! Equal oportunity offense.

                          I ask you and Al again.... who has Nth K attacked in the last fifty years??? "Threatening" doesn't count. Nth K is threatened every day. Who hasn't the USA attacked one way or the other in the last fifty years.

                          You will enjoy this one as it runs to what you said yesterday..

                          From McKiernan to McChrystal
                          Dancing the Afghan Jig
                          http://counterpunch.org/landau06012009.html
                          By SAUL LANDAU June 1, 2009

                          Comment


                          • I'll give you since they sprung a suprise invasion 50 years ago North Korea has been in a ceasefire. I admit that's it's a long time but it's still only a ceasefire not a peace treaty. In their minds it's still a war (ever dated a Korean girl you'll know they can keep a grudge forever )
                            They have dicovered tunnels big enough for tank divisions under the DMZ. Harldy the actions of a friendly neighbour. I don't want to sabre rattle and mention every incursion but people die on that Border. I would love it if we could let them get on with starving themselves to death but what happens when the masses become agetated? The party will need a bad guy to galvanise the population. It could easily get out of control.

                            As for the Missle Shield. Personally I'd have no problem with a Russian missle shield in Cuba, but then if the US was going to Nuke Russia and Vice Versa the missle's would go over the North Pole and not Cuba or Europe. The missle sheild in Russia is an internal political play. Brave Putin can still stick it to uncle Sam. The European missle sheild is to stop Middle Eastern countries targeting Europe with Missiles acquired from North Korea. Can you imagine how long a French President would stand against a Middle Eastern dictator with missiles raining down on Paris?

                            As for the article you quoted. If true (which I don't believe) it's just plain stupid. Trying to convert Afghani's would undermine the whole mission in Afghanistan. I find it hard to believe anyone with a brain would tolerate that activity. And in regards to the Northern Alliance, yes they are not Choir Boys but they never shelted people who think it's ok to fly planes into buildings. And finally the US is not at war with Iraq or Afganistan. It's at war with the Taliban and a variety of Insurgents in Iraq, I think it's a mistake to think they represent the majority.
                            Beer Baron

                            Comment


                            • (Torurot @ Jun. 02 2009,02:40) >>I think we could vanquish them quick enough but not without a lot of collateral damage first. >>

                              Where have I heard that one before, yeah that's right, it will be a "cake walk", and "they" will throw flowers at us, and kiss our collective arses as well.  Remember Fulluja, Iraq, Afghanistan & etc.


                              Take Nth K seriously, but SERIOUSLY you USA guys need a new approach to "diplomacy".  The current methods you use are NOT WORKING.  You keep replaying them with the SAME result.  Insanity!!  
                              Sorry T but the truth is there will never be any diplomatic approach that NK would listen to. They haven't for 57 years what makes you think it will change anytime soon??? I mean Kim just anointed his #1 his successor.

                              NK is just saber rattling once again, they used to do it in the seventies and eighties at least every 6 months but still there is a division and a couple more brigades of fine american service members ready to assist the ROK if it ever comes to it.

                              And like it or not as much as this old hippie wishes we could just all get along this old soldier realizes it's just not going to happen in any of us reading this board's lifetime.


                              Besides I don't see any other countries diplomacy doing any better or even any other country willing to stick their necks out in a diplomatic fashion



                               
                              It's good to King........no matter what the pay

                              Courage is being scared to death__and saddling up anyway

                              Billy Jaffe, Radio Voice of the Thrashers:
                              ”I have absolutely No problem with Ohio State. It has a beautiful campus, and for a Junior College it has really great Academics.”


                              "Gentlemen and ladies, 'Those Who Stay Will Be Champions' is for you too. It's for every Michigan fan that's out there. When the going gets tough, you don't cut and run. It's not the Michigan way. If I heard it once from the old man, I heard it a thousand times -- when the going gets tough you find out who your real friends are, and that's why we must stay. Because there will be championships, and this staff and these kids will bring those championships here."

                              Comment


                              • >>NK is just saber rattling once again

                                So why are you worried. The USA Sabre rattles all the time, should I be worried.... seriously???

                                >>Besides I don't see any other countries diplomacy doing any better or even any other country willing to stick their necks out in a diplomatic fashion>>

                                Ever tried just LEAVING THEM ALONE?? USA "diplomacy" is NOT working.

                                I ask bioth you and Geezer again. What have Iraq, and Aghanistan EVER done to you. Neither COUNTRY ever attacked you, and now you attacked them, surely they have the right to fight back. I repeat, the USA DOES NOT understand tribes. Recently in Afghanistan america killed over 100 civilians. That America denied they had killed anyone, then oh we killed some "terrorists", then forced to admit after some UN people came up with indesputable FACTS, They lie, and lie again, keeping on being caught out just like the Isrealis do.

                                Americans just DON'T "get it". It's all Gung Ho. "Raghead", we are the tough "good" guys "do as I say" bullshit! I was sent a BBC link to some maps showing that there were *FORTY* million plus Pashtuns (sp). I can dig it out if your interested. Americans, amongst others DO NOT understand tribal mentality. You piss off the tribe and everyone in it fights back. The End!

                                Comment



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