Political leanings

[Torurot]

Alan1Chef said >>when it comes to economics...I am a firm believer in capitalism...without restraints. Capitalism works best when there are no restraints of trade.>>


It's the totally wrorting version of "capitalism" from the US Banker class that has brought the WORLD to the current recession. The lack of restraints and oversight the cause. Capitalism without oversight is theft and anarchy.

Notice Privatise the Profits, Socialise the Losses. See the guys at the bottom being bailed out??? Thought not!!!!

[manarak]

The lack of restraints is dreadful when it is accompanied by a lack of responsibility.

We are in a corporate world of shared irresponsibility.

I still believe total freedom is good when it is accompanied by total responsibility, i.e. reckless strategies cost people all their private wealth if things go wrong.
But this is far from reality, except for small and medium entrepreneurs who still own their business.

For the rest, the corporate cow is there to be milked. If the cow dies by your fault or the milk turns sour, just find another cow.


In relation to the extent of the current crisis and to the damage it caused, there have been far too few suicide cases among bankers.
There is no loss of face in our world anymore, and no honor. Just find another cow, fuck the world.

[pacman]

(alan1chef @ May 14 2009,14:11) However...when it comes to politics...I will probably always agree to disagree.  

I have no problem with healthy debate, none of us claims to be the font of all knowledge...

What frustrates me is disagreement based on dislike of the person making the argument.

In recent posts you have shown a more open mind & a political belief closer to my own.

I think we could rationally discuss these matters, but your denial of John Perkins book, lumping it in with all anti-American literature, is exactly the blind prejudice that leads to our differences in the first place.

Agree to disagree by all means but not out of sheer spite because you can't accept that America could ever be the bad guy.

[bigmick22]

(geezer @ May 05 2009,16:29)

(sev7en @ May 05 2009,22:08)

(geezer @ May 05 2009,21:53) who am I to judge if your not harming anyone.

That´s usually what rightwing nutters do though.

True, and the irony is that individaulism is suppose to be a core part of the right where as on the left the state is more important. Ain't it funny how the further you go on each side the more they start to become the same.

extremists of all persuasions are scary

[alan1chef]

Manarak...I guess you missed the part about Chilean footwear being duty free... Just google FTA and you will find all the accurate information direct from the US Dept of Commerce...not some outdated data from the WTO.

Pacman, yes, I will not accept Perkins book as 100% gospel truth because it is not. What I see happening here is that everyone jumps on the bandwagon of bashing the US and blaming the US for everything that is wrong in the world. The real blame lies with the rest of the world that has failed to act and failed to take responsibility for their own backyard.

Torurot, I am not a supporter of bailouts. Everytime some government applies a tariff, or bails out a company that is going under there are ripple effects that impact the system. I said, no restraints, period. That means when a company goes bankrupt, we let it. The irresponsible will die a natural death because they cannot compete on an even playing field. It is the oversights that are the real problem. Do away with all government subsidies, everywhere in the world. No tariffs on anything. Don't confuse politics with economics. Governments need to get out of the economics business and let the system run itself. Who survives in that system? Well run and well managed businesses, that's who. Let supply and demand dictate the flow of goods worldwide.

[BlueBallz]

Pacman you seem to put all of your credence in Perkins' book. I read it a few years ago and, while i found it interesting and provocative, I concluded a lot of it was bullshit. Lets say for the sake of argument he is right and the USA (with the complicity of the dreaded "international bankers" who the hell could THAT be) burdens these countries with debt. Then the debt laden countries must play ball by giving the evil multinationals its natural resources.

If thats the case, these countries are corruptly complicit and ALLOW themselves to be raped by the evil USA. Whose fault is that. Its like if/when the USA gives aid to African countries these countries are so evil and coorupt that the help doesnt reach the poor people. They either keep it for themselves or use it in a power play. Again whose fault is that?? If you accept Perkins' premise, the "host" contries ahve to take a huge dose of resposibility for selling out its own people.

having said all of the above isnt this is what Castro has been saying for 60 years?? One one hand many of the same leftists bitch and bemoan the embargo. Like if we lifted the embargo tomorrow, Cuba would be economic nirvana. Thats total bullshit as The EU and the rest of the world trades with Cuba and they are STILL a basket case. If what Perkins says is true, shouldnt Venezuela be in a much better position?? What about the lefist running Bolivia right now?? Shouldnt their lot be improving?? I hope it does but it doesnt appear to be getting any better. Can one blame the USA for that?? The fact is in BOTH thise countries the leaders have been taking steps to consolidate their power and to crush any opposition.

You know I still think I have that book back in New York. When I get back next week I will reread sections of it......

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!!

[BlueBallz]

Polical leaning: It is IMMORAL for governments to take more than 50% of what one earns-no matter how much one makes!!!

Also: The death tax is basically IMMORAL. If one pays any tax on one's estate, it shold be a "flat tax" and on a sliding scale. I would say no more than 10% for the HIGHEST brackets.

You know if you estate is over a certain amount this year (not certain what it is this year but its less than a $2 million estate) the govt can take up to 55%. Thats criminal. The problem is ultra rich people odnt pay it as they set up (with the help of slick lawyers) complicated trusts that enables them to weasel out of the taxes.

[PigDogg]

  Why is Bill Gates super rich?

If he was born in Uganda he'd be sucking cock for a quarter a pop.

One of the major reasons for his success is that he had the benefit of USA infrastructure.  So it's not unreasonable for him to be taxed heavily.

But he probably pays porportionally less in taxes due to tax shelters than a guy making much less.

It's the middle class that gets f*cked.  

[ladyboyluva]

(bigmick22 @ May 14 2009,17:43) extremists of all persuasions are scary

While middle of the road politics is a sure path to tyranny.

As is the theme in Nobel Prize winning economist Fredrick Hayek in his classic "The Road to Serfdom".

The truth nearly always appears extreme when compared to the consensus of the politically correct.

[ladyboyluva]

(BlueBallz @ May 15 2009,11:04) Polical leaning:  It is IMMORAL for governments to take more than 50% of what one earns-no matter how much one makes!!!

Also:  The death tax is basically IMMORAL.  If one pays any tax on one's estate, it shold be a "flat tax" and on a sliding scale.  I would say no more than 10% for the HIGHEST brackets.

You know if you estate is over a certain amount this year (not certain what it is this year but its less than a $2 million estate) the govt can take up to 55%.  Thats criminal.  The problem is ultra rich people odnt pay it as they set up (with the help of slick lawyers) complicated trusts that enables them to weasel out of the taxes.

There are MORAL taxes?

I just thought Government was a gang of thieves writ large and that we paid up or got beat up?

I can't remember signing any contracts with them.

*ok, I know there are reasoned arguments for the justification of taxation, but most of them are pathetic defenses for what really is theft by the monopoly holder of force*

[Tomcat]

(Torurot @ May 14 2009,15:17) that has brought the WORLD to the current recession

Recessions are to be expected, no one is to blame exclusively . Most Countries want their snout in the trough when times are good..the blinkers are firmly on

Anyway
you cant have growth for ever and ever. If we had non stop growth ad -infinitum there wouldnt be any Copper, Uranium, trees and you name it left as we speak.

Corrections are needed to reset the system. Or is that to obvious

[Torurot]

Who Runs America?
The Impotent President
http://counterpunch.org/roberts05142009.html
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS May 14, 2009

Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

Congress bought and sold by special interests.

IMF & World bank, The "Fed" are "private" interests.



Bill Gates is one of the worlds biggest philanthropists. I'm unsure why people "hate" him so much. You don't HAVE to use MS products

I just got "Economic Hit man" out of the library today. What will I find.

[ladyboyluva]

(Tomcat @ May 15 2009,15:16)

(Torurot @ May 14 2009,15:17) that has brought the WORLD to the current recession

Recessions are to be expected, no one is to blame exclusively . Most Countries want their snout in the trough when times are good..the blinkers are firmly on

Anyway
you cant have growth for ever and ever. If we had non stop growth ad -infinitum there wouldnt be any Copper, Uranium, trees and you name it left as we speak.

Corrections are needed to reset the system. Or is that to obvious

That seems like a statement based on Malthusianism, which in my mind has been almost entirely discredited.

Hence, productivity, wealth, peace and other good things know no bounds so long as laws are good and people evolve in terms of their understanding of the nature of things.

Heck, the last 200 years, and what it has achieved on various civilizations should be evidence enough that we are capable of exploding concepts of the staus quo being somehow pre-destined.

[ladyboyluva]

(Torurot @ May 15 2009,16:33) Who Runs America?
The Impotent President
http://counterpunch.org/roberts05142009.html
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS May 14, 2009

Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

I just got "Economic Hit man" out of the library today.  What will I find.

I'm a big fan of Paul Craig Roberts, though I'm unconviced by his protectionist outsourcing arguements.

Regarding the economic hit man, it's great reading and there's quite a bit of truth to it, but the writer, as an inexperienced economist and historian falls for the trap of lumping in too may conspiracies together in my opinion.

Conspiracies abound, but there is a natural tendency to assume the are all connected and steered by some almost divinely perspicacious group. In reality, masses of individuals and groups conspire independently and often find themselves aligned along similar goals.

[Stewart]

(ladyboyluva @ May 15 2009,14:01)

(BlueBallz @ May 15 2009,11:04) Polical leaning:  It is IMMORAL for governments to take more than 50% of what one earns-no matter how much one makes!!!
Also:  The death tax is basically IMMORAL.  If one pays any tax on one's estate, it shold be a "flat tax" and on a sliding scale.  I would say no more than 10% for the HIGHEST brackets.
You know if you estate is over a certain amount this year (not certain what it is this year but its less than a $2 million estate) the govt can take up to 55%.  Thats criminal.  The problem is ultra rich people odnt pay it as they set up (with the help of slick lawyers) complicated trusts that enables them to weasel out of the taxes.

There are MORAL taxes?
I just thought Government was a gang of thieves writ large and that we paid up or got beat up?
I can't remember signing any contracts with them.
*ok, I know there are reasoned arguments for the justification of taxation, but most of them are pathetic defenses for what really is theft by the monopoly holder of force*

What total drivel Your contract is that you get to vote them in or out every few years.

Moral taxes - well the National Health Service in the UK has saved a few lives over the years, not sure what the streets would be like without a police force, and some of that aid to africa has probably saved a few people from starvation.