Black Friday tonight possible?

[Stogie]

It's Freefall Friday, folks!

[jimslim]

Funny how the guys who got everyone into trouble seem to get bailed out (and get a bonus ) and the rest of us have to pay .

Its about time people took to the streets again , people in the UK are far too apathetic nowdays .

[Dieter]

Monday may was a day to buy..... who knows....

Dollar up....oil down... uk down.....VW up....


good lb´s not on the stock market.....


Dieter

[ciobha]

Yeah.Apparently 700 nurses are to lose their jobs in N.Ireland,yet the government is more interested in bailing out the fucking greedy criminals who got us into this mess,than the people who actually deserve some public funding.
Sometimes i think Thai people have the right attitude when they revolt against the public authorities.

[post-op lover]

(Stogie @ Oct. 10 2008,14:56)
The police will be seriously undermanned (as they are now) and won't respond to burglary call outs. There will be Fixed Penalty Fines for every time a person is stopped, cautioned or arrested.

Teachers will have virtually abandoned the schools over a complete breakdown of trust between them and the government and the rising number of assaults inflicted on them by pupils.

There will be permanent police security at hospitals across the land as doctors, nurses, firemen and ambulance crews are attacked.

High streets will look like ghost towns as they can't afford to do business there.

It won't get better...

I loved that movie!  28 Days Later or something like that, right?  

(Monkey @ Oct. 10 2008,15:46)
unless of course you have beatten up the crook who was going through your cupboards in the room you were sleeping but then you can expect to get arrested

Wait a minute, why would you beat them up?  Don't you just shoot them?  With the gun you keep in your house?  After all, how do you protect your firearm collection?  I'd hate to think if someone could just walk in and take my Uzi or my 1891 Winchester.     There would be hell to pay.  



Just kidding.  

POL

[jaymee]

Crazy, crazy swings.  

The deluge of fiat money amidst this deleveraging fracas is certainly clouding judgement on the looming spectre of inflation.

[paultain]

If anyone is interested, download a documentary called €˜The Money Masters €“ How International Bankers Gained Control of America'.

It was made in 1996-7, and is 3 and a half hours long. And begins in the mid 1700's, until 1996. It is relative of what is going on today. You will see the game they are playing.

I think the governments should round up all these CEO's who got us into this mess, stick them into Gantanamo, and charge them with €˜Financial Terrorism'. Stick them in a cage and throw them a laptop, and say; "You got us into this mess, now you get us out of it, or you won't be getting out of here".

Freeze all their assets; in fact re-distribute their assets back into the system. After all if any of us normal folk couldn't do our jobs properly we would get fired, and the thought of getting a golden handshake after screwing things up would be very ridiculous.

At this time of crisis, all stock markets should be closed until this bailout is properly introduced. After all 2 weeks ago Russia started to be infected by this crisis and started to loose. But what did Putin do? He kicked out all the traders of the Russian stock market out and put a padlock on the door for 2 days. And guess what, they didn't loose a cent for those 2 days.

They say to us ordinary folk not to panic and keep your money where it is, while the stock traders this week have been shitting themselves and selling like crazy, making the situation worse. I say close them down until this is sorted. If they can't trade, they can't loose anything.

And that's my 2 cents worth (or is it 1 cent now)

[strocube]

Like I said before, I know fuck all about economics, but I've been kind of following this current debacle and trying to make some sense of it as much as possible.
I just checked my deferred pension and fortunately I haven't lost any money.

I know we're not supposed to post links, so here's the entire piece:



Nathan Gardels
Posted October 12, 2008 | 03:54 PM (EST)

My Interview with George Soros: End of Financial Crisis Could Be in Sight
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Read More: George Soros, Housing Crisis, Wall Street Crisis, Business News




George Soros, the financier and philanthropist, is author most recently of The New Paradigm for Financial Markets: The Credit Crisis of 2008 and What it Means. He spoke with me in Washington, D.C., where the IMF and World Bank are meeting, on Sunday.

Nathan Gardels: Let's talk first about the nature of the crisis. Thanks to low interest rates, global liquidity and deregulation, we have had a 25-year, self-reinforcing credit expansion bubble, leading to "irrational exuberance," as it was once said, in financial markets. Now we have the self-reinforcing crash of the stock and credit markets --"irrational despair" -- not justified by the economic fundamentals in the real economy.

How does this pattern fit your theory of reflexivity and your new paradigm for understanding finance?

George Soros: The key to understanding this crisis -- the worst since the 1930s -- is to see that it was generated within the financial system itself. What we are witnessing is not the result of some exogenous shock that knocked things off balance, as the prevailing paradigm, which believes markets are self-correcting, would suggest. The reality is that financial markets are self-destabilizing; occasionally they tend toward disequilibrium, not equilibrium.

The paradigm I'm proposing differs from the conventional wisdom in two respects. First, financial markets don't reflect the actual economic fundamentals. Expectations by traders and investors are always distorting them. Second, these distortions in the financial markets can affect the fundamentals -- as we see in both bubbles and crashes. Euphoria can lift housing and dot.com prices; panic can send sound banks tumbling.

That two-way connection -- that you affect what you reflect -- is what I call "reflexivity." That is how financial markets really work. Their instability is now spreading to the real economy, not the other way around. In short, the boom-bust sequences, the bubbles, are endemic to the financial system.

The current situation is not just about the housing bubble. The housing bubble was merely the trigger that detonated a much larger bubble. That super-bubble, created by the ever-increasing use of credit and debt leverage, combined with the conviction that markets are self-correcting, took more than 25 years to grow. Now it is exploding.

Gardels: What ought to be the "circuit breaker" that short-circuits the distortions that inevitably destabilize financial markets?

Soros: If bubbles are endemic in the system, then government regulators have to intervene to prevent bubbles from getting too big. Governments have to recognize that markets are not self-correcting. It is not enough to pick up the pieces after the crisis.

Gardels: Does the presence of the 24-hour global financial news cycle amplify and exaggerate distortions in the financial markets?

Soros: Without question, they accelerate the process. At the same time, I wouldn't overstate it. At the end of the 19th century, you didn't have 24-hour cable, but nevertheless you had the same kind of bubbles. Throughout the 19th century, when there was a laissez-faire mentality and insufficient regulation, you had one crisis after another. Each crisis brought about some reform. That is how central banking developed.

Gardels: How come all the efforts of the U.S. government so far -- the $700 billion rescue package, low Federal interest rates, backstopping deposits and commercial paper -- have not stemmed the crisis?

Soros: The U.S. authorities bought into market fundamentalist ideology. They thought that the markets would ultimately correct themselves. U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson epitomized this. He thought that six months after the Bear Stearns crisis the market would have adjusted and, "Well, if Lehman (Brothers) goes bust, the system can take it." Instead, everything fell apart.
Since they did not understand the nature of the problem -- that the market would not correct itself -- they did not see the need for government intervention. They did not prepare a Plan B.
As the shock of the Lehman failure set in, he had to change his mind and rescue AIG. The next day there was a run on the money markets and commercial paper markets, so he turned around again and said we need a $700 billion bailout. But he wanted to put the money in the wrong place -- taking the toxic securities out of the hands of the banks.

They have finally now come around -- with the government buying equity in banks -- because they see the financial system is on the verge of collapse.

Gardels: Now that the U.S. authorities are at last on the right track, what are the key components of resolving the crisis?

Soros: The outlines are clear. There are five major elements.
-- First, the government needs to recapitalize the banking system by buying equity stakes in banks.
-- Second, interbank lending needs to be restarted with guarantees and bringing LIBOR (London Interbank Offered Rate) in line with Fed funds. This is in the works. It is going to happen.
-- Third, we must reform the mortgage system in the U.S., minimizing foreclosures and renegotiating loans so that mortgages are not worth more than houses. Stemming foreclosures will cushion the fall of housing prices.
-- Fourth, Europe has to fix a weakness of the Euro by creating a safety net for its banks. While initially resisting this, they have now found religion and done it at their meeting in Paris on Sunday.
-- Fifth, the IMF must deal with the vulnerability of countries at the periphery of the global financial system by providing a financial safety net. This is also in the works. The Japanese have already offered $200 billion for this purpose.
These five steps will start the healing process. If we implement these measures effectively, we will have passed through the worst of the financial crisis.

But then, I'm afraid, there is the fallout in the real economy, which is now gathering momentum. At this point, repairing the financial system will not stop a severe worldwide recession. Since, under this circumstance the U.S. consumer can no longer serve as the motor of the world economy, the U.S. government must stimulate demand. Because we face the menacing challenges of global warming and energy dependence, the next administration should direct any stimulus plan toward energy savings, developing alternative energy sources and building green infrastructure. This stimulus can be the new motor for the world economy.

Gardels: At the end of the day, won't we be looking at a vastly different global financial landscape? The U.S. will decline as the top power. It will have, along with parts of Europe, socialized banks and loads of debt. Communist China will be the new financial power globally, flush with capital and a major investor in the West.

Soros: U.S. influence will wane. It has already declined. For the past 25 years, we have been running a constant current account deficit. The Chinese and the oil-producing countries have been running a surplus. We have consumed more than we produced. While we have run up debt, they have acquired wealth with their savings. Increasingly, the Chinese will own a lot more of the world because they will be converting their dollar reserves and U.S. government bonds into real assets.

That changes the power relations. The powershift toward Asia is a consequence of the sins of the last 25 years on the part of the United States.
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More in Business...

[mardhi]

I recall posting something very similar to this approx: 1 year ago on this forum about China and how they play the long game. Unfortunately our politicians do not seem to read the same books on history that I have done. I hate to say, well I told you so as almost nobody is listening but it aint over yet and China will take over the world without a shot being fired.

Cheers
Mardhi

[azza33]

I hate to say, well I told you so as almost nobody is listening but it aint over yet

I agree, nothing changed, fear has changed changed to a bit of optimism for the moment.

S & P still far overvalued....

Once the recession kicks in and corporate earnings fall, so too will the S & P.

[katoeylover]

Just a ray of sunshine aren't you Azza!!

[strocube]

"I hate to say, well I told you so as almost nobody is listening but it aint over yet and China will take over the world without a shot being fired."

Know of any good programs for learning Mandarin?

[katoeylover]

Looks like Black wednesday again....

[azza33]

QUOTE
I hate to say, well I told you so as almost nobody is listening but it aint over yet




I agree, nothing changed, fear has changed changed to a bit of optimism for the moment.

S & P still far overvalued....

Once the recession kicks in and corporate earnings fall, so too will the S & P.

Just a ray of sunshine aren't you Azza!!    

I hate being correct sometimes

[jimslim]

(katoeylover @ Oct. 16 2008,03:43) Looks like Black wednesday again....

Yep , I just had a look outside and it is pretty black , its gone 10.30 though