The Middle East...

[Guest]

(donnnnnny @ Jul. 17 2006,15:30) ......98% of all lobby money is jewish money. so  bush is prez or  clinton is prez  who cares they still ow  the money favors. so they dont step in and pull  israel into line.....

That's utter nonsense.

No one can dispute that the Israel lobby is a potent force in American politics, but the plain truth is that every industry of any consequence has a powerful lobby in Washington, as do half the other countries on the planet. Like it or not, lobbying is a significant part of the process of open, representative government.

To claim that "98% of all lobby money is Jewish" is either incredibly ignorant or downright anti-Semitic. I respectfully suggest we change the subject here before some posters venture into territory best avoided on this (or, for my money, any other) board.

[stogie bear]

Well - The Fish Box is the place to air your opinions, no matter what they are.

I get frustrated by some of the nonsense posted about the world of Thai ladyboys, but we don't want to censor people for being wrong!

I'd agree that 98% is way over the top and sounds more like a figure of speech rather than a matter of fact!

We have a healthy representation of Jewish people on this forum some of whom I have met and I'm sure they'll point out any posts that overstep the mark.

As for changing the subject... Well - this IS the subject. Israel and all the attention they are getting - it's driving me nuts.

But if they manage to blow themselves up and take the arab world with them then I suspect that most people in the West would be hugely indifferent!

[Mai-Kee]

Well, we had just recently 2 World Wars which originated from "local" conflicts. As the world gets smaller every day, I'd say there are no local conflicts in this world anymore and definitely not in this region. To many parties, interests and zillions of money are involved since ages. The only thing we can hope that these parties have the power - and interest - to keep this conflict where it is!
Nevertheless it's always the civilians who have to pay the toll for some greedy corrupt fuckheads we call politicians!!!

MK

[geezer]

Personally can't believe the press has not made more of the link that Iran gets Reported to the UN security council, Hezbolla decide to kidnapp two soldiers and rocket Israel. Pardon the pun but it's not rocket Science.

Israel has shot itself in the foot with an over reaction, but put yourself in their shoe's. Imagine if your country was shelled evey now and then by it's neigbour and the government of the other country says, well were real sorry but there's fuck all we can do about it. Cause your going to be pissed off.

No Israel appologist but how do you negotiate with extremists?

[Snick]

I wish it was as easy as nuke 'em all. But this conflict will drag us all in.

Its seems pretty obvious to me that Iran is pulling the strings. The majority of the Lebanese certainly didn't want this to happen.

[Mai-Kee]

There is no "emotional" reaction or "overreaction" in such conflicts. This is all very well planned. The Hizbollah kidnapps a few Israeli soldiers and they are starting to bomb the whole country. This doesn't just "happen" because of some hot-tempered generals. Neither the kidnapping nor Israels answer. Whoever is pulling the strings wishes that this conflict emerges. Drawing the Hizbollah protectors Syria and Iran, who still pose a substantial long-term risk to Israel, into the conflict, seems pretty logical. Iran is already on the €œwatch list€, but it would suit some people just perfectly if it could be moved swiftly from the €œwatch€ to the €œhit list€.
So, I wouldn€™t be overly surprised if Israeli jets soon find it "necessary" to strike targets in either or both of those countries, thus forcing the US protector to get involved too. Whichever way it goes this time, sooner or later there will be a pretext found to hit Iran as they might be the actual target of the whole operation.
As I said, we can only hope that "they" find a way to keep this war where it belongs to...


MK
PS: Pity is that about 40 years ago the Lebanon was a great country and Beirut the famous Paris of the East. The last few years it looked that they moved kinda back to normal. Beirut already went back to a great nightlife bar&club culture and now...... back to stoneage!  

[geezer]

Should not really be posting on this as don't usually do politics or religion (a political science degree and raised a catholic was enough for me), but just got home from work after a 28 hour stint and trying to keep my mind in gear or I'll nod off.

Anyway no way America will let Israel hit Iran whislt they have troops in Iraq, a 60% shiite country. The troops are having enough trouble with the Sunni's without having the whole country, bar the kurds, go against them. Al Sadr would have field day.

Plus I don't think the Israeli's have planes with the legs to go either way except over Iraq, US controlled airspace. And Iran's nuclear facilities are spread out. Unfortuantley the military option is just not there despite what Bush says. It could not hit all the targets and would be politcally disasterous. Love the way the Shitie's and the sunni's hack away at each other in Iraq all they want but as soon as big bad america does something their all this one big Arab Nation (which is a load of shit, they all hate each other as much as they do Israil) Buch of cunts.

Best solution would be send in a crack unit of ladyboy spy's. Best intelligence service in the world. Don't believe me, try taking a girl from Nana and not have the whole place know the next day. I bet they could find all the Iranian nuke's.

[Mai-Kee]

(geezer @ Jul. 17 2006,15:02) Best solution would be send in a crack unit of ladyboy spy's. Best intelligence service in the world. Don't believe me, try taking a girl from Nana and not have the whole place know the next day. I bet they could find all the Iranian nuke's.

Fabulous idea!!!

[Guest]

I am sorry Donnnnnny but that remark about the lobbying money is waaaaay off base and completely silly. Having said that, I defintiely agree with most of the rest of your post!!! Anyone, Any industry with a monetary interest has lobbists and pumps money into Washington. Hell, I am even certain that the porn industry has lobbists. I am in a union and my union has lobbists and a PAC.

I have had the "pleasure" of traveling around that area of the world and the whole place is one big shit hole-with the exception of Lsreal. If Isreal did not exist, then the Arabs would have to make up an equivelent (sp) of isreal in order to deflect attention to thier own pathetic existence/lives. Why dont they fight it out and the winner take all-oooops that kind of happened in 67. Isreal kicked ass and then the arabs cried about getting their land back-fuck them. Too fucking bad is what I say. The "Palestinians" have a state of its own-its called Jordan!! BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!!

[donnnnnny]

(oldasiahand @ Jul. 17 2006,16:43)

(donnnnnny @ Jul. 17 2006,15:30) ......98% of all lobby money is jewish money. so  bush is prez or  clinton is prez  who cares they still ow  the money favors. so they dont step in and pull  israel into line.....

That's utter nonsense.

No one can dispute that the Israel lobby is a potent force in American politics, but the plain truth is that every industry of any consequence has a powerful lobby in Washington, as do half the other countries on the planet. Like it or not, lobbying is a significant part of the process of open, representative government.

To claim that "98% of all lobby money is Jewish" is either incredibly ignorant or downright anti-Semitic. I respectfully suggest we change the subject here before some posters venture into territory best avoided on this (or, for my money, any other) board.

utter nonsence you say. ok in the next day or so i will post the relative information for you to peruse.
I am in no way anti semetic(jewish) .as i am in no way anti arabic
what i am is anti fuckwit.

[Guest]

(donnnnnny @ Jul. 18 2006,05:13) I am in no way anti semetic(jewish) .as i am in no way anti arabic
what i am is anti fuckwit.

(1.) Semitic is a linguistics and etymological term.

It refers to language groups that come from the Semetic base. In the same way English, French, and spanish all come from the Latin base.

The only two surviving Semitic languages today are Arabic and Hebrew. To say something is Semitic would be refering to both, and to say Anti-Semitic would mean you were against both (presumably) Arabs (speaking arabic), and Jews (presumably speaking Hebrew).

To say that an Arab or Arabic speaking Muslim is Anti-Semitic is absurd. Or no more so than to say a Jew is Anti-Semitic if he hates Arabs (or Arabic speakers).

Out of laziness, and possibly other motives, the term has come to be frequently incorrectly used, eeven and especially by those who know better.

(2.) In relation to Stogie's original post, it's not too far out to say that no news is good news. By that I mean I quit reading or watching news about 5 years ago, I scan the daily headlines when I log on each day. I may actually click and read one full story a day- and it is usually because of something weird, not world events.

What I have found is that the sky didn't fall without me knowing about it. I am much less stressed out than I was 5 years ago. And I don't really feel that out of touch. In any case, I still know more than those who "keep up" withthe news, and I can deconstruct them in debate at the drop of a hat.

Science, human nature, and general principles don't change that much.

(3.) That having been said... I've always felt supportive of Israel and Jews in general. I can say of every Jew I've ever met (and I realize this would be bordering on stereotyping, except that I'm simply reporting my actual one-on-one experiences) that each is a little neurotic, but have otherwise all (but 1) been good, decent, smart, funny people that I would trade for any of the hundreds of others jerks I've known.

To put it another way, if I were asked in some ridiculous test to pick a "race" or people to live on an island with, I'm thinking maybe only thai's (if all female) would come ahead. Even my own white-bread anglo-saxon kin prettu much suck next to the Jewish contingent I've encountered.

(4.) I'm fascinated when people hate Israel or blame Israel. Whenever I see Israel attack, I'm always thinking "What took you so long!?" In my opnion, they have always exercised extraordinary restrain in the face of non-stop attacks against their country.

I have a friend who's mom hates me. His little brother used to punch, hit, kick and pester him at all times. He would hit his big brother (my friend) and immediately begin crying... which is all his mom would see. She would then fuss at my friend. After seeing this about the hundredth time, I just punched "Bobby" right int he face when he put the crying act on. Both my friend and his mom looked at me with their mouth wide open. I said "Ma'am, I've watched this for long enough. 'Bobby' is a little shit, and he needs to learn that there are consequences to being a little shit."

Hezbollah, Hamas, and these other groups (the term "Palestinian" has no meaning) are little shits. They have nothing. They have several thousand years of stone age, nomadic lifestyle in their culture. All they know is to rape the land and move on. It is only after Isreal took shitty land and made it fertile, and built an economy on it that anyone wanted to claim to be a "Palestinian", and therefore get "their land" back.

I'm all for Israel bombing whoever they feel neccessary to the stone age (some more). Israel has the greatest intelligence service and the greatest Air Force in the world. They don't miss. If they bomb something, it's because they know what they are doing.

Israelis spent generations building and creating something. If any of these other countries did the same, they would have indoor plumbing by now.

(5.) This is not about oil, for two reasons. None of the countries we have mentioned are key oil producers. Secondly, the price of oil is primarily determined by demand. The current cause of the increase in oil prices is the economic surge in China and India, allowing hordes of people to now own cars for the first time.

Here in the US, most people (including the news) have the same "It's all about us" attitude. It doesn't even occur to them that there are causes outside of our borders.

Supply does have some play in gas price, but their is no shortage of oil that anyone can point to. There HAS been a shortage in refinaries, which is the chief problem with the US oil market. Politicians and enviro-weenies have badgered oil copmanies for so long that they stopped making new refineries. Now the oil companies can't keep up with the rate of converting the incoming oil into gasoline. There are barrels backing up at the docks and refineries because we don't have the facilities to convert it fast enough. This is the chief cause of US Gas prices.

Even at that, gas prices in the US at least are just now catching up to where they were in the 80's AFTER you adjust for inflation. People cry like babies about $2.89 gas, but adjusted for inflation it's as good a price as we've had in decades- since Carter's policies created gas shortages.

Price serves many functions, one od which is to allow people to self ration. Since we keep buying gas (and my family is planning a cross state trip in the SUV next weekend) then obviously the price of gas isn't too high.

(6.) Since it's not about oil, I can tell you what it is about. Jealousy. The Arabs have hated the Jews for thousands of years, long before anyone had thought of the internal combustion engine and had no use for the oil that would stay buried under sand for generations.

People like to say "The Arabs and the Jews having been fighting for centuries". There is some truth to this, but it is more accurate to say the Jews have been slaughtered, exiled, and attacked by Arabs as well as Germanics (that's all the rest of us) for centuries.

For them to finally be given a land of their own, I say good for them. I would rather they were given Kansas or something, it would save everyone a lot of trouble. But that is past. What is the legitimate definition of a nation-state? I can say that is one of the few questions I don't have a good answer for. I have yet to meet anyone else that has a good answer either.

If anyone thinks Israel doesn't deserve their nation, I offer you to consider your own nations origins and decide how morally pure you feel. I'm OK with Israel, because they were given a shit heap that no one else wanted, and godammit they made something worthwile out of it.

This is not a land that was hotly contested before, and there was no such thing as a "Palestinian" living in some country called "Palestine" before Israel was settled. The Arabs that lived in the area before were nomadic tribes. Their whole culture was based simply upon robbing the next band that you came across of whatever they had accumulated.

I'm not saying arabs suck... I'm saying these Arabs at this time have no right to revise history. Arabs in the past created breakthroughs in algabra and math (creating the number zero), agriculture, sanitation, mass produced paper, optics, navigation, recording history, and a whole host of other things.

They could have chosen to also become industrious, following Israels example. Instead they have wasted almost 60 years being bitter and wanting two things only, to take what Israel has created (not understanding that it will fall apart as soon as they take control over it) and to kill Jews.

I guess I'm just brainwashed by the Jewsih controlled media and the Jewish controlled politicians, but it seems like a pretty clear case to me. I'm for the people who have been kicked around the Middle East and Europe for generations and have managed to make something out of a sandhole.

I say "Go Israel" and good luck with that new parking lot.

[Randyman]

To classify this as a regional conflict I think is a little thin, as so with the "oil" arguement or with those pesky Jews. If so, where are those arguements when the same islamic terrorists pay a visit to Spain? London? France? Turkey? Canada? Russia? Philippines? Indonesia? Watch out Stogie, they're in Southern Thailand right now, and I bet there's not too many of "us" who haven't thought that Nana could be the next Bali. Oil? Jews? Bullshit! This is a fucking religious war with radical islamic extremist's bent on destroying the West and ruling the world.
The palistinians (jordanian exiles) are pawns in all of this. The US. and Israel give them more in aid than ALL of the arab countries combined. It's also a problem that they have "puppet regimes" who's strings are pulled by Iran and syria. Does anyone remember a few years ago when Arafart made all of the demands to Israel pertaining to the peace process and Israel offered about 95% of the demands? Arafart backed out immediately, because in actuallity he was never serious about any peaceful solution.
The palistinian situation, is forced on them by the rest of the arab world. They are used as political fodder to fester islamic hate toward Israel and the US. They didn't start this round of shit, and neither did the Jews. It was Iran and Syria, in this battle, and radical islam worldwide. pure and simple.
All of you "oil theorists" could you please tell me, where the fuck is it?? I'm up to 3.98 a gallon and you have been hammering the "cheap oil mantle" for years...decades... we're at the point in this country now where we actually have to import gasoline because, thanks to the econazis, we don't have the refinment capacity any more. No new refineries in over 30+ years. Drill. Drill in the Atlantic, drill in the Pacific, drill in Alaska, and the gulf of Mexico. If all of the friggin' illegals would just bring a gallon of regular with them, we'd never have to import oil again
I believe this islamic situation is world wide. And is going to take a world wide commitment to defeat it. They are like a cancer, and they will never stop.

Randyman

[stogie bear]

Like Donnnny said... you can own the koran in the civilised world but death to the mugs who take a bible to anywhere else!

[stogie bear]

ALL God believers are dirty scum, but at the moment Muslims are the biggest stain on human laundry.

[Looker]

(grunyen @ Jul. 18 2006,06:17) I guess I'm just brainwashed by the Jewsih controlled media and the Jewish controlled politicians, but it seems like a pretty clear case to me. I'm for the people who have been kicked around the Middle East and Europe for generations and have managed to make something out of a sandhole.

How true is then this Jewish thing of being in-control of everything outside Hollywood it's still to be seen..
However, my admiration to them, as much as to all those people who managed to make miracles out of a barren rock or a sandbox!
Think of places like Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore and others, with almost zero resources except for their own people and put them against countries with any resources and still being a mass of under-developed loosers!
..bit sorry.......