More of Pattaya's finest - Naked & beautiful II

[f0xxee]

(pacman @ Aug. 08 2010,14:32) :upOnly when we in the west understand what we are up against will we make sense of this strange behavior. Strange to us, not to them.

Paccers,

Aren't you making some grand assumptions here? All you have seen is the result: A man getting clubbed by a couple of ladyboys weilding stilletos.

You ASSUME it is because he told them to fuck off.

How do you know he didn't dud one of them in a short time room, refusing to pay? Or not pay his bar bill? Or grab her tit? or ?? A myriad of offences.

It surprisesd me you would make such a lop sided assessment with little factual evidence.

Or are you assuming because he is of your tribe he is right? White is right?

Its not war. Its cultural difference. Who says you or westerners are right?

Sorry, but this has been below your usual balanced standard.

ALSO: I work with Thai's and Asians every day. Vietnamese are not so different to Thais. I dont know who your business friend is who allows plumbing to be placed on the wrong side of walls etc, but I suggest he is a failure. If I allowed such fuck-ups in the work place I would not be here to write about it.

You CAN point out errors and mistakes. No problem at all. What you cannot do is belittle people or swear or yell. It should be done in private. It should be done as improving education. And it should be done with grace. Perhaps a better way all round?

[pacman]

I agree with the crux of your post but I should make clear a few things you question me about.

I was very clear when I first wrote about the assault that it MAY have been something as minor as a "loss of face" incident. In my previous post I wrote that it WAS over a trivial matter, as though I knew. Of course I didn't, it was just lazy writing on my part that I made the presumption & you are right to hold me to account.

Though a fairer question would be to ask why I changed my tune from one post to the next.

I should comment on the racist aspect you raise here. I never mentioned the race of the victim. I wouldn't have changed a word about the incident regardless where the guy was from. Yes, he was white, a westerner & most likely ignorant of social norms but none of that excuses what happened.

And the guy I saw being carted off the night before was black. It isn't the issue here. Violence is violence. In fact, in both cases it was attempted murder no matter how you wish to paint it. For all I know, the first guy may be dead. He was in a bad way & without knowing the facts behind it, I will stick my neck out & state that whatever he did, the punishment didn't match the crime.

And just for clarification, my friend isn't a builder, he was citing examples of the sort of nonsense that takes place here due to the question of face. He was responding to my question about some extraordinary thing (I can't remember what it was now) that I asked him about.

It is rare to get a local prepared to discuss openly such matters. He was educated overseas & bridles at the stupidity that results from a social system where no one can honestly challenge ones peers or higher authority.

I agree that a quiet word to an employee gets around the problem in the workplace but my friend told me how an unfortunate Thai of lower standing was shot dead by a Hi So (High Society) Thai for the unforgivable sin of pointing his foot towards him.

Now there's a cultural difference that can't be defended on any grounds.

[f0xxee]

Thanks for the reply Paccie,

Don't want to threadjack. Just an observation however:

In the last two weekends in Sydney there has been a street brawl involving 100 persons at the Rocks and then last weekend an incident in Oxford Street where again the riot/swat team were called in for what was an in all in brawl.

I reckon similar levels of violence happen on streets in Northbridge too.

Do you think Pacster that it is more a case of you being in a place (Walking St) where you are witness to these incidents, where as at home you wouldn't be caught dead having a night out at Northbridge, or in Oxford St etc, let alone every night for a month?

I think that the west is a far more violent place (lets ask out friends from the UK what a Saturday night in Birmingham, Manchester etc looks like) its just that in your usual abode you don't see it.

On holidays in WS you do.

Just a thought.

[Bumpa STIKKA]

Now - WOW!

[Jake_Sully]

   

Not to threadjack either but quite enlightening.

When I talked to my friends and former co-workers who had visited Thailand, I asked about it and they said its full of thieves and scum and they were robbed and hit upside the head like these guys by some gals. They swore they'd never step foot on Thai soil again.

Obviously the people who told me haven't bothered to adjust themselves to the environment and are still for a lack of better word ignorant.

Thank you for discussing this paccie and foxxee, you may well have saved someone's life if they take the time to read this and reform their etiquette.

[pacman]

I apologise for neglecting my thread the past few days but I have been a touch busy. I couldn't even find the thread till I realised it had been pinned. Blimey, now the pressure is on...      

And I have visited a couple of girls I took earlier. "Why you want photo? You take already" was heard more than once. Plus last night I enjoyed the company of Bow who declared at 2pm when she was leaving the room that she "not look nice". Not without an hour of make-up, you know how insecure they are about their appearance. (You don't? Trust me, they never stop preening & checking themself in the mirror)

So the camera hasn't been switched on for days. And because I have been told I am now "DAO" or similar (TAO?), I may struggle to find someone willing to pose. Let's hope not.

Dao has various meanings depending on how it is pronounced. Star is one meaning, I could live with that but I knew it wasn't being said as a compliment. Guess is another (The Dao Bar?), while turtle is another. Turtle? Isn't that some sort of insult? I vaguely recall hearing that.

But then it was shyly revealed it meant "farang been here too long & know too much". Hmmm, all that from one word? As an insult, I don't know how far up the scale it is but I am sure someone here will chip in with their interpretation.

Do you think Pacster that it is more a case of you being in a place (Walking St) where you are witness to these incidents, where as at home you wouldn't be caught dead having a night out at Northbridge, or in Oxford St etc, let alone every night for a month?

I know what you mean. I wasn't presenting the case that WS is less safe than a Saturday night in Glasgow after the pubs have shut. But should we be the victim of a senseless attack, I would be more concerned with getting treatment than worrying about what social conditions have brought about the anger behind it. At home if I am out in a busy place, I have enough sense to stay clear of drunks, here the attacker could be anyone.

I don't want to bang on about it, I think we all need reminding that there are some very disaffected people here & we need to take suitable precautions. Hard to do when you don't know who the enemy is.

[jimslim]

(pacman @ Aug. 12 2010,20:02) while turtle is another. Turtle? Isn't that some sort of insult? I vaguely recall hearing that.

But then it was shyly revealed it meant "farang been here too long & know too much". Hmmm, all that from one word? As an insult, I don't know how far up the scale it is but I am sure someone here will chip in with their interpretation.

My interpretation as told by a few ladyboys is that it is an none too complementary term that refers to a farang who buys a drink and then sits all night over it , hence to move slowly like a turtle .

Who cares though ? Its your money and you may drink as fast or as slow as you wish , though I would draw the line if it started to evaporate in the heat .

On a scale of Thai insults its pretty low , they have called us a lot worse

[deepthroat]

Yes, in terms of insults it's definitely one I could live with (and probably shall have to). It sounds like more of an observation than an insult.

Now, if they were complimenting me on being extremely generous, would that really be a compliment? If they were happily chirping about how you come in and pick the first girl that winks her anus at you, would that be a compliment?

Some of their compliments are probably not reflections of sound judgement by the honoree.

[TEERAK]

I was told that a Tao (Turtle) is someone who spends less money each time they come...hence going back into their shell...?

I'm sorry to hear you experienced the Wrath of Karn but am glad you knew where to draw the line by taking Bow instead. I'm actually quite surprised it's taken so long for her, at times, appalling attitude to be reported. I'm not sure if she is narcissistic though. Just extremely temperamental.

Thanks for the trip report Pacman  

[deepthroat]

(TEERAK @ Aug. 13 2010,04:39) =I'm sorry to hear you experienced the Wrath of Karn but am glad you knew where to draw the line by taking Bow instead. I'm actually quite surprised it's taken so long for her, at times, appalling attitude to be reported. I'm not sure if she is narcissistic though. Just extremely temperamental.

I have either missed or forgotten what this refers to. I've dug back as far as page 6 and other than the photos of Karn, I couldn't find the citation that this seems to refer to.

Could you refresh my memory Pacman?

[Jake_Sully]

 DT, it was in the other forum in Manarak's trip report. Here: This is the first post of relevence and it continues below.

[deepthroat]

Thanks Jake!

[pacman]

(TEERAK @ Aug. 13 2010,04:39) I was told that a Tao (Turtle) is someone who spends less money each time they come...hence going back into their shell...?

You may be right but it took a bit of prying to learn there was another meaning than turtle. The two girls behind the reception desk here were very reluctant to say it. They were happy to leave it at turtle but then one hinted there was another meaning. Slowly I dragged it out of them but they were embarrassed to say too much.

I wait for others to explain.

I'm sorry to hear you experienced the Wrath of Karn but am glad you knew where to draw the line by taking Bow instead. I'm actually quite surprised it's taken so long for her, at times, appalling attitude to be reported. I'm not sure if she is narcissistic though. Just extremely temperamental.

One definition of narcissism is -

inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.

This barely describes her completely obsessive behavior the other night where she didn't stop gazing at herself dancing in the mirror for over 2 hours. In my entire life I have never witnessed a more narcissistic display.

Of course I didn't find her hard to look at either but after a while she became quite ridiculous. I loved the way the other girls never gave her a glance, instead fixedly staring anywhere else. I can only imagine what feelings they harbour towards her.

And I was adding fuel to the fire by letting her have all the drinks she wanted. Now that's 'big face' for her but I am sure the other girls were cheering when I walked out with Bow. Cheering on the inside that is, they would never give Karn reason to 'box them'.

Thanks for the trip report Pacman  

You're welcome.

[kahuna]

(pacman @ Aug. 13 2010,11:45) One definition of narcissism is -

inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.

This barely describes her completely obsessive behavior the other night where she didn't stop gazing at herself dancing in the mirror for over 2 hours. In my entire life I have never witnessed a more narcissistic display.

My opinion is that is a sign of her insecurity Khun Pacman...Not her vanity...

[pacman]

  You may be right, I am not qualified to diagnose her condition.

One thing that is obvious though, she is completely obsessed by her looks, akin to being infatuated with herself.

It sure sounds like narcisisstic behavior to me.