New Constitution to recognize LB rights

[Snick]

As most of you are aware Thailand is writing a new Constitution ( in pencil with a lot of whiteout ). According to this article, they added a clause '...giving homosexuals and transsexual individuals and assure they would "enjoy equal rights" '. Of course no one knows what this will mean, but I'm hoping it will allow LB to eventually get a passport with a 'good' picture and say 'FEMALE'.

From The Nation
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007....184.php


The CDA yesterday also voted to include a clause to recognise homosexuals and transsexual individuals and assure they would "enjoy equal rights".

The assembly noted however that such recognition would not lead to sanctioning "homosexual consummation".

...
Meanwhile, Natee Theerarojnapong, president of the Gay Political Group of Thailand, burst into tears on being told that the CDA had agreed to recognise the rights of gays and lesbians by stating in Article 30 of the charter that differences in "sexual identity" could not be grounds for discrimination.

"This is what we have fought for for decades," he said.

Natee said he believed that Sutthirat Simsiriwong's case had prompted the assembly to recognise gay rights [page 2].

"His case was concrete evidence that discrimination against gays does exist in this country," he said.

The CDA will continue deliberations on the draft constitution today and tomorrow.

[jadeite]

stating in Article 30 of the charter that differences in "sexual identity" could not be grounds for discrimination
...The assembly noted however that such recognition would not lead to sanctioning "homosexual consummation".

If that's not discriminating, someone tell me.

[stogie bear]

It's a start...

As for the passport ID there should be 4 categories... M, F, MF & FM. These four categories would be unobtrusive on the passport, easy for officials to recognise and give respect and pride to the persons affected.

[divertwo]

agree.....and who cares about gay/transgender/etc marriage approvals.....the marriage "thing" is a political and religious football that gets kick and passed around. If you want to have a long term "legal" relationship with the same sex, hire an attorney, write a document that gives the both of you all the "rights" you want. Having been married in a church, by a priest with a "marriage certificate".....the "gay" or "same sex" marriage thing is just window dressing that makes you feel warm and fuzzy........

If you love her(or him) live together, be happy, commit to each other, and write a binding document that "legalizes" what each of you wants/feels.

[rxpharm]

This is a step forward for the Thai gov't, but the "other" category discussed for passports and ID will not work for international travel. Right now there are no other countries that have another designation for a "3rd" sex. The only categories existing are male and female. It would be counterproductive to grant passports to Thai transgender people with designations other than this as it would complicate entry into other countries.

I would hope that the Thai gov't will grant ID that fits their current gender, "F" for male to female transsexuals and the more rare "M" for female to male transsexuals - this follows the convention of all other countries that allow legal ID change for transsexuals.

As for marriage - right now Thailand does not recognize same sex marriages, but if they allow ID change the problem solves itself for those willing to take the plunge into married life.

We will have to wait for the details!

[Guest]

This also implies that rejection to public places like bars would be forbidden in the constitution.

[rxpharm]

Article from the Nation talking about a proposed new law that will allow transsexuals to change their titles.

Here is the link: Transsexual Group Does not want to "Miss" Out

Yollada is Nok, Miss Alcazar 2005, also a member of Venus Flytrap.





Transsexual group does not want to 'Miss' out
Trans-gender beauty queen Yollada Krerkkong Suanyot has formed the TG Thailand group to campaign for transsexuals to be able to use the title "Miss" and have rights as women.Published on August 15, 2007




National Legislative Assembly member Juree Vichid-vadakarn also plans to submit a bill allowing transsexuals to legally change their titles. The matter was discussed at a meeting of the National Commission for Promotion and Cooperation for Women's and Family Affairs last Friday.


The TG group is to meet Naiyana Supapueng, a member of the National Human Rights Commission, today for talks on the campaign.


It includes renowned transsexuals such as Yollada, Miss Alcazar 2005 and boxer Parinya "Nong Tum" Kiartbussaba. It consists of both transsexuals and transvestites who use "Miss" as their titles.


Yollada said he was going to disseminate news of the group's formation to other transsexuals and transvestites so that they could support the campaign.


Deputy Social Development and Human Security Minister Poldej Pinpratheep said the issue needed a public hearing because it involved many ministries and laws, such as marriage registration and property laws.


"There should be legislative amendment for changing titles of both kinds of transsexuals, male and female. However, the Social Development and Human Security Ministry won't be the host for submitting the legislation because it has other urgent matters to


deal with. It is up to the Office of Women's Affairs and Family Development," said Poldej.


Yollada said that if the campaign succeeded, the group would fight to change


a statement certifying exemption for trans-genders from military conscription, which cited "mental perversion" as the reason.


This statement would be changed for only trans-genders and transvestites aged under 21.


Yollada said he had faced many problems when submitting his personal documents while conducting financial transactions with banks, applying for jobs and even travelling in foreign countries. This was because his title did not match his female appearance.


"When our gender is changed, some details of our personal documents should be changed, too. And, actually, we don't want to be the same as women, but we want laws to protect and give us rights to be transsexual people, as well as government organisations and private companies to accept us," Yollada added.


Sasiphat Setakunwat, 24, a male cross-dresser, said changing his title to "Miss" would make his job applications easier. He had applied for a job for men but when an executive saw him dressed as a woman, he immediately rejected him.


"To be a real woman after changing sex is my ambition and I believe it is also the ambition of all transvestites and trans-genders," said Sasiphat.


Ramon Suriya, 24, a trans-gender, faced problems when he went to Sweden to take an English language course and when he applied for a job at a hotel.


"The hotel denied me because my title is 'Mr', even though I got maximum scores in its test," he said.

Wannapa Phetdee


The Nation


While this is not part of the new constitution, hopefully it may begin the changes for proper legal recognition of transsexuals in Thailand.

[rxpharm]

Update on this proposed legislation for transsexuals in Thailand from Outlook, Bangkok Post Oct. 1/07.

Are you man enough to be a woman?

Are you man enough to be a woman?
A group of politicians is drafting a bill that will legally recognise male-to-female transsexuals as women

Story by SANITSUDA EKACHAI


Twice Pakjira sailed through interviews and was told she had got the job. Twice they called her back to tell her she hadn't. Their reason was similar _ head office does not want to hire katoey, or transsexuals.


Like Pakjira, Yolada has undergone gender reassignment surgery so she can live as a woman. However, even with beauty queen looks and a feminine voice, she still could not find a job.


Tired of being turned down, Yolada applied for a bank loan so she could start her own business. The answer from the bank was a big "No!"


"Not only because my legal documents do not match my gender, but also because they believe katoey in general are unreliable," she recalled bitterly.


Ask male-to-female transsexuals about the discrimination they face, and stories of pain and anguish flow freely.


When facing the draft, for example, the military has until very recently branded transsexuals as "permanently damaged by mental sickness", and thus unfit for military service. This labelling affects their jobs prospects for life.



Thanks to campaigns by human rights activists, the military is amending ministerial regulations and exempting trans-sexuals from the draft. In the interim, the military has promised not to label transsexuals as mentally ill, but it admits that it is difficult to alter past draft documents.


When attempting to travel abroad, transsexuals are often refused entry to foreign countries, and can be treated badly by immigration officers. When sick, hospital staff often simply place them on men's wards. If arrested, they are commonly sent to men's prisons, which is tantamount to being sentenced to molestation and rape.


In everyday life, transsexuals find themselves targets of ridicule and harassment. The lack of job opportunities also forces many of them to earn a living in the sex industry, even if well-educated.


"Society is still very much indifferent to our problems," said Suttirat Simsiriwong, a transsexual who made headlines a few months ago when the Novotel Hotel refused her entry to its club on the grounds of her being a katoey.


Although after a boycott and a campaign by gay rights groups the hotel finally issued an apology, Suttirat said living a normal life will remain difficult for transsexuals as long as the law refuses to allow them to change their titles and names to match their chosen gender.


That is why so many jumped for joy when the National Legislative Assembly's Committee on Women announced it would sponsor a bill to help make their dreams come true.


The move came after the much-publicised case of Suttirat, which exposed politicians to the discrimination faced by transsexuals and the need to legally recognise sexual diversity and gay rights.


According to Dr Juree Vichid-Vadakarn, chair of the NLA's sub-committee on women, male-to-female transsexuals will benefit from the bill, which is in line with constitutional rights of gender equality.


At present, men can use the title Nai (mister) before and after marriage. Unmarried women, however, use Nangsao (miss), while married women must use Nang (missus), even after divorce.


This requirement has caused problems to many married women when they do business or enter contracts, because as married women they must provide proof of the official approval of their spouses. Divorced women must always make their divorce papers available when entering into contracts.


The draft bill, said Juree, will strike a balance by allowing married women to continue using Nangsao or Ms, although those who prefer to use Nang or Mrs may do so.


Male-to-female transsexuals, according to the draft bill, will have the same rights regarding titles as genetic women _ they will be able to use Nangsao and the authorities must issue them with new ID cards showing their new gender, and change their other legal documents accordingly.


However, despite high hopes, the draft bill does not look like it will enjoy a smooth passage.


"From my experience as a lawmaker, the most difficult legislation to pass through Parliament is that dealing with gender, because it touches on people's deep-rooted cultural values and prejudices," said Wallop Tangkunanurak, chair of the NLA's Committee on Women.


"These laws are generally considered very low priority and almost always held up until Parliament is almost over. More often than not, they do not make it in time."


That might be the case with this new bill _ the government and agencies involved can ask for time for detailed scrutiny of its contents, and fierce opposition from the conservative Interior Ministry is certain. The process could drag on until the NLA is dissolved after a new government and Senate are elected.


While some politicians are sympathetic, others remain fiercely resistant.


"They've expressed concerns that allowing transsexuals to use the title 'Miss' will enable them to trick men into a marriage," Wallop said. "They also asked if men 'tricked' into marriage, when they discover their new wife is transgendered and cannot have children, will be able to file for divorce."


To speed up the legislative process and lessen opposition, the Committee on Women believes it is best to allow only those who have undergone gender reassignment surgery to change their names and titles.


But this proposal has led to a split in the transsexual community.


"Those who have gender reassignment surgery are only a tiny minority, because the surgery is very costly," said Sitthiphan Boonyapisomparn, a social worker from Sisters, a counselling centre for transsexuals in Pattaya.


"If the law benefits only this small group, it will be discriminating against those of us who don't have the financial means to have the surgery."


Many male-to-female transsexuals, she added, prefer not to have surgery because they are afraid of the long-term effects on their health. Stories also abound of complications and health consequences, which deter many trans-sexuals from having gender reassignment surgery.


It is also feared that allowing only those who undergo gender reassignment surgery to change their documentation may encourage young transsexuals to seek the operation before they really understand their sexual identity.


"When I was young, my dream was to have a sex change operation," recalled gay rights activist Natee Thirarojanapruek. "I would have regretted it for life had I done so, because I later found out that I am a gay queen, not a transsexual."


Their concerns are also echoed by Naiyana Supapueng, a National Human Rights Commissioner.


"The law cannot be discriminatory on socio-economic grounds," she explained. "Transsexuals who have had gender reassignment surgery, and those who have not, face the same problems. It's discriminatory to help only those who can afford surgery."


It is also not right to push transsexuals who do not need surgery to go through such a complicated procedure just because they see it as the only way to change their identity, she added. "This will end up only benefiting the medical businesses," she noted.


But Yolada Suanyot, in her capacity as leader of the TG Thailand campaign group, believes it is the most practical solution, given society's strong scepticism of transgender women, to make those who have had gender reassignment surgery top priority in obtaining legal gender identity.


"We have to tackle change step-by-step," said Yollada, who won the Miss Alcazar transsexual beauty pageant in 2005.


As for premature decisions to have surgery, this problem can be solved by ensuring patients undergo a thorough psychological and physical examination, which is already standard practice in state hospitals, she explained.


But such examinations are not always given in highly commercialised private hospitals, noted Naiyana.


There is also a need to study what other countries have done to help resolve transsexuals' gender identity problems, to chart the best course for local policies, she stressed.


To start with, it is now accepted that transsexuals suffer from gender identity disorder, a problem that can be medically corrected by hormonal treatment and gender reassignment surgery.


According to Prof Douglas Sanders, a visiting lecturer at Chulalongkorn and Mahidol Universities, the European Court of Justice ruled in 1996 that discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment was discrimination on the basis of sex, thus contrary to EU law.


In 2002, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that post-operative transsexuals are entitled to have personal documentation, including birth certificates, drivers' licences and passports changed to reflect their gender identity.


In 2003, the same court also ruled that gender reassignment surgery was a legitimate medical procedure, and not elective plastic surgery, and should be covered by health insurance. Consequently, all EU countries are required to have laws consistent with these rulings.


It is now routine in countries including Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the US and some South American countries, to alter the document of post-operative transsexuals, he said.


This year Brazil set another standard by ruling that gender reassignment surgery must be provided free of charge.


Asia is fast following the trend. China, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore and South Korea have now recognised post-operative transsexuals' rights to have their personal documents changed.


"In the Muslim world, the change is recognised in Egypt, Indonesia, Iran and Turkey, but not in Malaysia," he added.


Each country's recognition of transsexual gender identity differs, however. In Germany, the law allows changes to birth certificates only for those who undergo gender reassignment surgery, while the UK extends recognition to all cases where there has been a diagnosis of gender identity disorder and where the individual is living in the desired sex.


"Genital surgery has its risks, and individuals should not be pressured into seeking surgery in order to gain recognition," he said, urging Thailand to follow the practice in the UK.


With pressures of time, strong resistance and divided opinions, Suttirat said she had little hope that society will listen to the voices of transsexuals.

"Our real battle is not about getting new identity cards," she said. "It's about how to make society understand that our being transgendered can be medically corrected, and that it is completely unjust to condemn us and dismiss us with oppressive stereotypes.


"On our part, transsexuals must also provide positive role models so society can look at us in a positive light, so that parents understand and stop beating and punishing children who are born transsexual.


"Our goal is to be treated equally, with dignity. The battle is a long one. But at least we can say the journey for our rights has begun."

There is some hope that there may be some progress in this, as noted in this article it may be difficult, but at least things have started. I think this would be a great step when this legislation is passed.

[Guest]

Reading this from a while ago, but...

Divertwo...you are completely missing the point of laws of the country related to equal benefits and laws fo the estate. A binding legal agreement does not overcome those prejudices.

Constitution...laws of the constitution are only binding for governmental institutions. "Equal Rights" in it does not imply discrimination outside government institutions is illegal.

Above...the SRS requirement to change sex, is, of course, bogus. Gender is psychological, not physical, so how can cutting a dick off make you female and not cutting it off makes you male?

[rxpharm]

Above...the SRS requirement to change sex, is, of course, bogus. Gender is psychological, not physical, so how can cutting a dick off make you female and not cutting it off makes you male?

I agree, but progress has to start somewhere! Same thing as Korea, extreme prejudice against TS until Harisu was able to petition for changing her ID documents from male to female. This set the basis for the legislation they recently passed.

Later I hope that they will legislate legal status for all TS in Thailand.

[vangough05]

Is this a wind up or what. Sounds too suss to be true.

[Road Runner]

No it's no wind-up.  Unfortunately I doubt in the present political climate that it will make it through to being law.

Even if it does it's probably going to take 10-20 years for the attitude of the bulk of Thai society to change.

RR.


The bit about being refused a bank loan reminded me of something.

Herself keeps getting phoned up by a bank asking her if she wants to borrow 3 million Baht off them.
I'm sure they must know she's a transsexual  -  though she has legally changed her name to a female one so maybe they are confused.  

It gets better though  -  they also keep sending her letters demanding that she repay the 3 million Baht that she hasn't borrowed off them  

[post-op lover]

(ziggystardust @ Oct. 02 2007,01:09) Above...the SRS requirement to change sex, is, of course, bogus. Gender is psychological, not physical, so how can cutting a dick off make you female and not cutting it off makes you male?

May I paraphrase?

"Intelligence is demonstrated, not acquired, so how can it be that claiming to read so many scholarly articles makes you ignorant, and not bragging about it doesn't imply less intelligence?"

Shit.

It's all mixed up together, you surely realize. Do LBs need boob jobs to feel feminine? Long hair, frilly clothes?

Try telling the next LB you see that she doesn't need to change her appearances, because physical appearances don't reinforce her femininity, it's all in her head.

And if clothes and makeup aren't powerful, then how can genitalia and hormones be any less so? Testes - important, yes or no?

Sheesh.

POL

[post-op lover]

Anyway, I think that enshrining these things in the constitution is an admirable advance. To think that the US is interested in regressive changes to its constitution is a sign of dark times.

POL

[fancylighters]

(stogie bear @ Jun. 29 2007,22:19) It's a start...

As for the passport ID there should be 4 categories... M, F, MF & FM. These four categories would be unobtrusive on the passport, easy for officials to recognise and give respect and pride to the persons affected.

Like your idea, but I think a fifth category "WTF?" is also needed.