She smokes cigarettes...

[Guest]

I voted: I'm a non smoker but it doesn't bother me.

I don't smoke but as long as its not being blown directly in my face I don't mind if my partner does.

Besides, I always felt that those who smoke have an oral fixation and I have something other than cigs they can fixate on.

[kahuna]

I don't give a rat's ass so long as they BUY their own friggin cigarettes...

[daveduke007]

[Guest]

I'm not going to talk about my dislike for smoking much, because I don't want it to detract from the more important issue at hand which I can shed some light on. I will say this, I find smoking disgusting- that's just a gut reaction that I've had since I was a kid. However, I do not support the government being involved in any way. Private restaurant and bar owners, and their patrons can work it out on the market.

Now, on to correlation. There is absolutely an irrefutable correlation between smokers and drug users- but that's not the whole story, and it's not as simple as "smoking causes you to do drugs". Part of the field of economics is risk analysis, what actuaries do.

Things like for instance, your child is in much more danger from your backyard pool than a gun in the house; or, the myth of motorcycles being dangerous is easily disproved by the fact that motorcycle insurance is very inexpensive.

With that in mind, here is what the field of actuarial science tells us about smokers. There is an economic term known as Time Preference. Everyone has time preference, there is no such thing as negative time preference. Most who become rich though, have what is known as low time preference, while those who are poor, or become poorer are referred to as high time preference.

High time preference means you want your reward NOW. Those with high time preference buy the Plasma TV with $0 down and no payments for a year (with 22% interest, immediately accruing from day 1 if you miss a payment). Those with low time preference invest their money and earn 12% for several decades, and then they enjoy their retirement very early and they take cruises, scuba, or travel around the world.

Those with the high time preference are the grasshopper of Aesop's fables. They will be working as Wal-Mart door greaters when they are 70 because they have spent everything they made before they ever got their paychecks.

Those with high time preference share a lot of common characteristics. They tend to be smokers, drinkers, and drug users. They like motorcycles and roller coasters, in short, they are thrill seekers. They demographically lead an agregate shortened life span.

Now of course all people are individuals and no one perfectly fits any mold. Any two individuals may have some and not other overlapping characteristics, an understanding of Ven diagrams is a good reminder here.

That being said, back to the original point, knowing that one has some characteristics of high time preference, it is extremely safe to predict that they have all or many characteristics of high time preference. This is much the same as knowing if someone lives in a particular neighborhood they may not specifically be a criminal, but it is demographically accurate to surmise that they have a high rate of probability of being a criminal.

Short version, there is absolute and scientifically accurate probability that a smoker would also be a drug user.

[Guest]

Short version, there is absolute and scientifically accurate probability that a smoker would also be a drug user.

And where is it?

[stogie bear]

Ozzie - you are living in The Ziggy Zone! Your posts are becoming increasingly baffling and bizarre!

Thanks Grunyen for a well thought out post which makes perfect sense and pretty much sums up and endorses my own thoughts.

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Jun. 04 2007,14:23) Ozzie - you are living in The Ziggy Zone! Your posts are becoming increasingly baffling and bizarre!  

Thanks Grunyen for a well thought out post which makes perfect sense and pretty much sums up and endorses my own thoughts.

My posts are baffling and bizzare because I disagree with you and grunyen? I am only asking him for his evidence but maybe that was too diffcult for you to comprehend.

My experience is completely different from yours and most of the illegal drug users I know do not smoke cigarettes.

You seem to have this problem with anyone having a different opinion to you.

[stogie bear]

...and most of the illegal drug users I know do not smoke cigarettes.

This is also my experience. Most people that I know that use recreational drugs are non smokers. However this is totally unrelated to the ongoing arguement that drug use can be related to cigarette use. Obviously you don't understand the thread at all.

Also; I never have a problem with people disagreeing with me and I know that on many isssues most people do. I do have a concern when people wade into topics without an understanding of it.

You clearly have misssed the point of the last few posts and are clinging on to something that most of us probably believe to disprove something else that most of us probably believe and both things are unconnected.

(Also - from some of your posts on here recently and the comments you have made to other members of this forum in bars you clearly have issues about the way I manage this place. I can live with that but your issues with me personally are clouding your judgement.)

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Jun. 04 2007,14:36)

...and most of the illegal drug users I know do not smoke cigarettes.

This is also my experience. Most people that I know that use recreational drugs are non smokers. However this is totally unrelated to the ongoing arguement that drug use can be related to cigarette use. Obviously you don't understand the thread at all.

Also; I never have a problem with people disagreeing with me and I know that on many isssues most people do. I do have a concern when people wade into topics without an understanding of it.

You clearly have misssed the point of the last few posts and are clinging on to something that most of us probably believe to disprove something else that most of us probably believe and both things are unconnected.

I am sorry I am not as intelligent as you think you are. I do understand the thread topic and was asking for grunyens evidence as to a correlation because smoking cigarettes and being more likely to be a drug user. I am sure grunyen will be happy to assist me where as all you do is tell my I am stupid and do not understand what is being written.

I was also stating my own personal experiences just as you have done.

[jadeite]

If I detect a smoker, they are off my list 100%. A few have slipped under the radar and there is nothing worse than taking the preparation shower to get nice and clean meanwhile she's lighting up a cigarette smoking up the room and herself. I find smoke in the bars awful too, but there is just nothing you can do about that. Everyone reeks terribly by the end of the night and if second hand smoke really is bad for you, then spending nights in those bars has got to be putting yourself at the worst risk of the consequences. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should be able to do what they want, but not to the point they enforce upon me the ills of their habits. Kind of like get as hammered as you want, just stay off the roads.

[stogie bear]

I'd go along with that. Actually I think I'd be a bit upset if someone lit up a ciggy in my hotel room. Like you say - it's one thing to go to a smoky bar... you can always go out again!

I wish my tolerance for smoking was higher but it actually does make me quite sick if I'm too close to it which is a pisser because I actually like the smell of a burning cigarette (a little bit.)

The smell on clothes (and wigs!) is not too nice though. Jaideite... are you an ex smoker?

[jadeite]

No, never ever a smoker; the thought of sticking those disgusting cancer sticks in my mouth never appealed. My Dad used to when I was young before he quit but that never really bothered me. But for some reason as I get older I get more sensitive to smoke, but being in Thailand have to deal with it a lot more than California that is about heaven for non-smokers; not many smokers by percentage and bars are smoke free there.

[stogie bear]

but being in Thailand have to deal with it...

The law in Thailand is very clear... NO smoking in eating areas, but I've almost never seen this enforced. It's a bummer in the badly ventilated Bully's Pub in Bangkok and The Sportsmans Bar on Soi 12 in Pattaya.

Oh well - I can always go somewhere else, right?

[brocklanders]

Here is some evidence.....Moo is a cigarette smoker and just went to jail for drugs

Actually I dont see the correlation...nicotine is a strong enough drug, why would you need anything else. Seems as though smokers need their fix a hell of a lot more than heroine abusers or crackheads. I also think alcohol is a drug but nowhere near as addicting as cigarettes.

Now marijuana is something different. It's under the category of medicinal herb.

[stogie bear]

Yep - all true, but cigarettes don't get you high or drunk. At least not after the first week of smoking them!

I do miss them but I'll (hopefully) not smoke again. But I'd probably start up again if I was told I only had a certain amount of time to live.