Bangkok Dreaming

[Tomcat]

(katoeylover @ Apr. 17 2007,04:06) a life in Thailand has to consist of some sort of routine or otherwise I am sure you would get bored of it pretty quickly

IMO
One gets the perception that life would be much happier by huge increment living in LOS. When you have Ladyboys on tap 24 hours a day this will soon become to be the normal situation and one may be happier but maybe not by such a massive margin as is perceived .

I dont know how to measure happiness but i think it still needs sustained effort to attain it wherever you live..
It dont come easy.

as far as Europe is concerned the most satisfied people live in cold Scandinavia and the most miserable live in the sunny Med acording to a survey in the Daily Telegraph today.

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

That's a good point, but tell me this, Tomcat... (and you may know the answer as you have been here several times over the years) why do Thais seem so much happier in their (relative) poverty than the Brits or any other Western nation?

I live in an area of Thailand where I'm guessing the highest earners top out at about 8,000 Baht a month and this is a wonderful happy vibrant and enthusiastic community. You very very rarely hear kids crying (and there are multitudes of them here!) The thousands of people who I share a few streets with live closely together and in a very harmonious way without acrimony and frustration...

The same 'poor' people in the UK have more money, more things, more opportunities and better food, better health care, etc but are still nowhere near knowing any kind of peace or contentment in their lives.

Happiness isn't just a "sustained effort to attain it wherever you live.." or putting up with the crap around you. It's more about embracing that crap and making it work for you. Thais have it figured out and we lost it on the way.

Money brings you happiness only if you know how to spend it!

[katoeylover]

Because Thais live for today. They have no thought of next month or next year. they spend what they have and spread the karma.

The life is happy if there is food on the table and whiskey in the bottle and the bills paid. everything else is superfluous.

In the west we are continually being told how bad it is, how we should save for our future and that disaster (whether it be global warming or Shiite Terrorists) is just around the corner.

Even if I lived in Thailand I would still not have this lifestyle because it is so foreign to us. These are acts that are learnt from being a baby, and all through life. Not bad, just different.

[Tomcat]

Its funny you should bring this up as this has been a much debated topic in some parts of the press recently in the UK as why Britains are so Grumpy.

for westerners IMO
Its hard to generalise but part of the problem is that satisfaction for some is never arrived at no matter how hard they try. Its probably true in my case anyway.. the cup is always half emtpy.. i cant get off the treadmill..
Sad but true.

Perhaps its capitalism doing its dirty work into conning us that what we have isnt good enough and we need that new IPOD or computer or car or holiday...keep up with the other guys...Oscar Wilde said that " another mans success diminishes me ".

Some of the most satisfied people in the world are in the poorest countries. Maybe its culture..

[Tomcat]

(Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!) @ Apr. 17 2007,17:51) Money brings you happiness only if you know how to spend it!

Or as Ringo Starr said.

" money doesnt buy you happiness but at least i can be miserable in comfort "

[Bravo]

I have been living in Thailand for over 10 years now, most of it working. The first 2 years are the toughest as you learn the local ways (the myriad ways you can get screwed). I managed to get a job in a decent company after a few years here, worked my way up and then went out on my own. I had links at home (family, friends and business) when I came out here but made the decision it was the cost of lving, climate and GGs that I wanted (I have added LBs to that mix).

Don't think I will ever really retire but I am doing what I want and I am in control so I don't see the need in retiring although I do manage to put a little away each month.

You can move here and get a job to support you. If you don't then it's not because you can't, it's because you have other priorities at the moment. That's cool but don't think you can't close it all up and move out. Plent of us of have done it and few regret it.

[rob69in]

UK has had an appaullingly incompitant & weak governement since the arrival of the present labour party & the media muppet Blair who is a classic example of an arrogant, self centred, self opinionated bigot, who has utter contempt for the population. The IRA said they were waiting for a weak government & Blairs labour party gave it them. On top that we have well & truly been sold down the river by Blair to the European Union, with rediculous contribution payments into the union & interferring EU legislation totally at odds with the UK way of doing things. They have also meddled & interferred with, & made a complete farce of, just everything departmental & goverment run, NHS a classic example. They have invented or increased 50+ taxes since arrival & then tried to mask it all with this propaganda motivated income tax reduction in the last budget. There integrity is finished & this latest hostage fiasco in Iraq / Iran has further underlined there total incompitance in handling all things.  

The man on the street, the vast majority of the population, has not benefited at all from this loathsome government, they are worse off than they were 10years ago. Energy costs are out of control, council tax & taxes in general are out of control, then they wonder why people expect pay rises, could it be they need the money to pay the bills. Immigration is way out of control, a very immotive subject. The goverments hatred of people who live in the countryside & its war on them, fox hunting & the idiotic 4x4 uproar, simple but irrefutable evidence of this & its hatred of old age pensioners, & its insistance on running things like the police force as a profit making business. Its contempt for the population is its most damaging asset. It quite casually announced its going to spend an obscene amount of money allegidly 9.5billion, closer to 12 in reality, by the time the final costs are in, on some absurd prestige project, the olympics. It is likely to benefit less than 10% of the entire population, if that even. It has robbed charity money to achieve & cover these spirralling out of control costs when there are second world war vetrans begging on the streets of London. All this further underline its greed & unfit for purpose status.

How on earth, with that sort of incompetant leadership & the slow goverment generated irrosion of society can a population be happy?   i was staggerred when they won a third term, how can people be so stupid?

[Tomcat]

This is a compicated subject. Philosophers for 2,000 years have been trying to answer the question

"what is the good life for man"

As far as Thais go it does appear that they are a more contented lot in general than us farang as Mr Grumpy alluded to previously which must be something do with the culture being my best guess. Ill have to give this some more thought ...its interesting...

Many , maybe most lottery winners who have been interviewed in the UK are on the whole no happier two years later..people think if they win the lottery happiness comes automatically...

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

You can move here and get a job to support you. If you don't then it's not because you can't, it's because you have other priorities at the moment. That's cool but don't think you can't close it all up and move out. Plent of us of have done it and few regret it.

[rob69in]

I spend alot of time, normally just before I drop off to sleep, thinking about my lot in life & some of my most depressing periods are on return from Asian / South American holidays. Not sure why, regular sex makes a huge difference to how happy I feel.

I seem to be impatient, angry & frustrated alot of the time in UK, in no small part contributed to by the appaulling service & over pricing, virtually everywhere you go & not having any kind of a soul mate. Western women actually work in reverse, they generally add to your depression & over whelming feeling of disppear. Its amazing that the very people who should be part of your life & contributing to your happiness are infact one the largest problems! I also have no partner of any gender, either casual or otherwise & my social life is minimal, but then again who wants to go out in the UK other than to a country pub when the cities / bars / night clubs are swarming with druggies & drunks.

I often think about stacking all my assets, piling them in a pot & rodding off to some foriegn land ( paradise ) & doing a Ronny Biggs. But the reality of that is far adrift of the fantasy. I have considerable ties in UK, money, assets, loads of friends, hobbies, house, etc. Fortunately, i have no wife, children, dependants, cats, dogs or other to consider tho', & that IS a huge plus.

Things i would loose, friends, I have a lot of valued friends in the UK, many i have known all my life, while i wouldn't necessarily loose them, contact with them would be minimal. Hobbies, I help restore & run steam engines & vintage agricultural equipment, this tends to be a peculiar english thing altho' its popularity in other countries is increasing. Europe, Australia / New Zealand, USA, not in developing countries. When i am not doing that I am working on my Land Rovers in my little workshop tucked away on a farm or racing them, its two things I enjoy & makes me happy. Its is very likely that would go out the window if i moved to a developing country.

As some posters have stated we are programmed to save money, despite the fact no one will give you a decent % on your money in the UK, & the tax man wants a slice if you save it & make a pitance profit on it. I have savings, but what am i saving for, I have no dependants. I want to be pennyless & well & truly in debt when i die, preferrably to the state. Yes its nice to have some money when you retire as some kind of buffer fund, but my parents saved all there lives then just gave it to us kids, about 95% of there savings & assets in fact. All the things they were going to do in retirement & didin't.

Often the little paradises we visit on holiday create false impressions for us, as we are also in a different frame of mind. You save up, so you don't need to look too carefully at what you are spending, & you generally do what you want, when you want to do it, unless your a package tour sheep with everything organized for you. You stay in luxury ( ish ) hotels where, if chosen correctly, the staff will take good care of you. You eat in nice restaurants, Japanes Sushi & Korean in my case. Its a false life, very different to the realities of living there.  

I now only go some where as a sex tourist, if I'm not going to be able to get laid at a sensible price & reasonable quality of sex, I'm not interested. I have done my gawping masses tourist bit, i am sure i would be severly chastised by the do gooders, who think you are contributing to the "unacceptable" ( to them ) life of a prostitute. I find the majority of do gooders do not, & don't want to have, a full grasp of the facts. They would also not accept that in a "normal" relationship there is little difference, the blokes getting scammed!

In the final analsys I do not think living in these "paradises" is an option for myself in the foreseeable future. But for some without any real ties in the UK & the ability to generate income to maintain a life style, i would think it is a serious consideration.

Another thing is the culture difference, you just might not fit into Thai society / way of life. Yes they are happy in there relative poverty, but would you be?

KL, you have serious post LOS blues, like we all do, I've lost count of how many times I have thought about, dreamed about, living over there. In the cold light of day & the rational / reality of it all, I think it is just a dream.

[katoeylover]

I have the blues yes, but if you read my initial post it was if and when, not how.

I have been down this road before and I actually agree with you, Rob, it is not viable for the next 2 years at least, if at all.

Another thing is the culture difference, you just might not fit into Thai society / way of life. Yes they are happy in there relative poverty, but would you be?

Yes - you would need a job and western/farang friends

Often the little paradises we visit on holiday create false impressions for us, as we are also in a different frame of mind. You save up, so you don't need to look too carefully at what you are spending, & you generally do what you want, when you want to do it, unless your a package tour sheep with everything organized for you. You stay in luxury ( ish ) hotels where, if chosen correctly, the staff will take good care of you. You eat in nice restaurants, Japanes Sushi & Korean in my case. Its a false life, very different to the realities of living there.

My point exactly..

[Guest]

Concerning the whole happiness thing, I believe most westerners have difficulty being happy with what they have. If they could only get "more" they would be happier, and that turns into wanting even "more". I try to be happy with what I have. That doesn't mean I don't have goals or hopes, but I do take satisfaction in the life I have. Being a cancer survivor does help to put things in perspective. In any case the main thing right now is: wheels up in 40 hours.

[jimslim]

great thread this , i think were all the same when we,ve returned from LOS , im normally the happiest most laid back guy , but am in a state of depression when its time 4 home again , this normally lasts 2 weeks or so , then im cheered up by the thought of the next trip .
i,ve lost count of the number of times i,ve thought of just selling up and moving to thailand , but common sense tells me it just wouldnt work 4 me .
im reasonably young still [35] divorced , with a decent job and my own house , and family at home .
one thing stops me , to achieve my dream i would have 2 quit my job and sell up everthing , this would give me the income 2 live in LOS quite comfortablly {if i was sensible   ] 4 quite a few years .
but in reality if i was there full time i know it would be so different , all my friends would be 6000 miles away , so would my family , all my interests and hobbies gone .
Id give my self 6 mts - 1 year and id be ready 4 home again .... but then i might love it , settle down and never look back ... who knows ? thats the gamble
but 4 now the dream will remain just that , and become reality again last week in July  

[stogie bear]

great thread this

I agree... this is one of the best reads I've had for a while... keep your thoughts coming folks.

[mardhi]

(rob69in @ Apr. 18 2007,00:00) When i am not doing that I am working on my Land Rovers in my little workshop tucked away on a farm or racing them, its two things I enjoy & makes me happy. Its is very likely that would go out the window if i moved to a developing country.

Dont you believe it - a land rover is still as unreliable a car no matter where in the world they are. Mine spends more time in the service centre in Bangkok than at my house.

Your more than welcome to come and fix mine whenever you get the urge - I have even got a huge shed as well.

Cheers
Mardhi