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Nana Plaza has got five years left, tops...

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  • Nana Plaza has got five years left, tops...

    The forces of gentification are at work in Nana, my boys, and it won't be long now before your favorite neighborhood is a thing of the past.

    Personally, I give the area five years, tops, before it's completely changed over, but it may not even last that long.

    Normally, you all might be able to dismiss this post as typical "barstool bullshit" gloom-and-dooming, but take a look around the Nana yourself and you'll see plenty of evidence that the pressures to gentrify are beginning to mount.

    The weak dollar and strong Thai baht are also a factor now. Many young, professional Thais are actually RETURNING to Thailand looking to invest, and the Nana area offers the perfect opportunity to buy cheap, renovate, and sell high. These jet-set "TAPs" (Thai-American Princes/Princesses) are not put off by Nana's seedy reputation amongst local Thais, in fact, that's part of the allure. They've got money, they've got energy, and they've got support from local business leaders who'd like to polish up Bangkok's tarnished reputation.

    Back home, I've always liked to live in seedier places (cheap rent, woo!), so I've ended up living in quite a few neighborhoods that went through this same process, and the writing is clearly on the wall.

    Remember how Ft. Lauderdale used to be the "Spring Break" capital of the world? Heck, there are STILL some college students who watch some old movies and mistakenly make the trek to South Florida only to find that the cheap, seedy dives their parents' generation used to trash every spring are now either cheap, seedy crack house or multi-million dollar hotel/spas catering to rich German, French-Canadian and Brazilian tourists.

    Well, in the very near future, there are going to be some hapless internet tourists making exactly the same mistake about Bangkok. Don't get me wrong, the sex industry isn't going away. It's way too deeply ingrained in Thai culture. But the seedy, sexpat neighborhoods of Bangkok are on the way out, that's a fact that you can take to the bank, literally.

    Patpong is now 50/50 red-light district and night market, and the night market is winning. And every time a go-go bar closes, it's replaced by an upscale restaurant or shoe store, not another go-go bar.

    Nana has held out largely because the owners of those clubs have resisted pressure to "get the fuck out", but in the end, this is all about money, and right now, there is some SERIOUS money aimed at the Nana area.

    I've actually heard that from "the horse's mouth", so to speak. Someone fairly high up the food chain was showing me some plans for several projects they and their friends have going on, and one such project was very close to the Nana red-light area. And I cannot imagine these people putting up that kind of money to cater to sexpats. Nope. No way.

    Dont' expect bulldozers to be knocking down the plaza any time soon (although that's not out of the realm of possibility). But just take a good look around and you'll see plenty of evidence that change is on the way.

    So enjoy it while it lasts, boys. We're living in a fading era. Soon people will be heading to Nana to grab a bite at Au Bon Pain before meeting up with friends at some posh fern bar.

    Where the p4p scene relocates to is open to speculation, but Nana is already extinct. We just don't know it yet.

  • #2
    just yesterday i was told "they" plan to turn pattaya into disneyland. clean it up the way rudy did 42nd street in nyc. maybe so. and maybe it's true for nana.
    but i don't think there's the money *and* the will to do both at the same time. they'll do one, see if it pays, and then decide on the other. as to which goes first, i have no clue.
    the nana district of bangkok versus all of pattaya....
    but whatever happens, the p4p world of thailand will only relocate, not disappear. 42nd street may be disneyland, but you can still get righteously laid in new york city.
    just not right there on the corner!

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    • #3
      I don't agree with your predictions. I don't think that Nana Plaza will be around long but I think that its demise lies in either a fire or, and many may laugh at this, but a bombing by either Al Qaida or more likely the rebels of southern Thailand. I love to sit at Bulldogs and watch all of the action, but with the one way in-one way out system that they have with all of the motorcycles blocking the entrance, it would be a very likely spot for a Bali type bombing.

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      • #4

        I have always thought these areas would be a prime target for
        extremists..
        x
        Forgot how this forum works  

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        • #5
          (doug @ Mar. 02 2008,16:01) The forces of gentification are at work in Nana, my boys, and it won't be long now before your favorite neighborhood is a thing of the past.
          Yawn. This pops up about once a year.

          Personally, I give the area five years, tops, before it's completely changed over, but it may not even last that long.
          Do you know that 5 years ago, many so called informed people were predicting EXACTLY the same thing?

          Patpong is now 50/50 red-light district and night market, and the night market is winning.  And every time a go-go bar closes, it's replaced by an upscale restaurant or shoe store, not another go-go bar.
          This totally discredits everything you have said. I defy you to give ONE example, just ONE.

          I've actually heard that from "the horse's mouth", so to speak
          Last year the horses mouth said the master lease of Nana was not going to be renewed and was proclaimed up until a few months ago by well connected people as the end. But surprise surprise, it has been renewed and going as strong.

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          • #6
            Well there'll always be Pattaya. The whole City is a Nana Plaza!  

            and clean up Pattaya? come on then no one would even go there and the Pattaya Police would go broke.... NOT going to even happen.

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            • #7
              (doug @ Mar. 02 2008,18:01) Where the p4p scene relocates to is open to speculation, but Nana is already extinct.
              Well, in that case I have to cancel my trip.

              For sale: a ticket from Amsterdam to Bangkok (and back).

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              • #8
                (jonny @ Mar. 02 2008,18:25)
                (doug @ Mar. 02 2008,18:01) Where the p4p scene relocates to is open to speculation, but Nana is already extinct.
                Well, in that case I have to cancel my trip.  

                For sale: a ticket from Amsterdam to Bangkok (and back).
                You must be a really horny guy if you live in Amsterdam and still need to go to Bangkok!

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                • #9
                  (BAM @ Mar. 02 2008,19:29) You must be a really horny guy if you live in Amsterdam and still need to go to Bangkok!
                  I have to because they are closing down half of the red-light district over here.

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                  • #10
                    (jonny @ Mar. 02 2008,18:43) I have to because they are closing down half of the red-light district over here.
                    Why would they do a thing like that?

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                    • #11
                      Doug, unfortunately you are bang on the money & it won't take 5 years.

                      Count the factors working against the sex scene in Thailand right now.

                      The Govt hates the image of sex tourists visiting Thailand for the exploitation of their youth. Buddhist monks elected to Thai parliament would have outlawed
                      the entire scene years ago, except it was pointed out to them that so many people relied on the income for their survival.

                      The compromise that was struck made it a legal offence to work in the business under the age of 18, both for the Thais & for any patron of an underage worker.
                      The go-gos in Patpong, etc all had to move upstairs so unsuspecting tourists didn't get the fright of their life by peeking inside. There were about 30 top go-gos in Patpong 30 years ago.
                      The fact that bikini clad dancers was the very thing these elderly visitors hoped to see was dismissed by the self-righteous hell-bent on cleaning up the sex trade.

                      The constant closing of all bars, clubs, etc, stopping them serving drinks are not for the spurious reasons given, but are a back door way to starve out the bar owners. This trend is only going to get worse, & wait till the King passes on.

                      No entertainment business will survive.

                      A 3 month closure as a minimum is expected as a suitable mourning period.
                      There will be some mourning all right, but no-one would dare complain, given the reverence the Thais give their Monarch.
                      I would suggest anyone choosing to ignore the closure would be at extreme risk of being killed. Nothing less !!

                      In response to jadeite, I can only say that the World is a completely different place to 5 years ago.
                      In order to stave off a crippling recession, the Federal Reserve Bank in the US is printing money at an unprecedented rate.
                      To avoid the inflationary effects being passed onto other economies, all central banks are increasing their money supply like madmen.

                      The result is the World is awash with money & with equity markets under pressure like never before, the usual parking place for this excess capital has no appeal at all.
                      Portfolios are being sold up to buy prime real estate.

                      Property & gold are the major recipients of this excess of cash & the Chinese & the Russians are in Thailand right now buying wherever they can get a deal.
                      Read the signs on the building sites to see where the money has come from. The Chinese would buy Pattaya lock, stock & barrel if it was offered.
                      Add the Koreans, Japanese & the Taiwanese & there are no shortage of players.

                      Nana Plaza may not be a buy at the moment, but watch this space. As soon as someone gets serious either on the selling side or the buying side, things will move quickly.
                      One day we will wake to the news a sale has happened & all the clubs, the staff, girls, etc will have to move.

                      A big development site just off Sukhimvit, & you guys want to argue it won't sell !!

                      Don't make me laugh.

                      Rossco attended a slap-up dinner in Pattaya on Friday night put on by the Govt where the intention was clearly spelled out,
                      Pattaya is to be developed for the upmarket tourist with an anticipated budget of 20,000 baht a day.
                      Apart from the Alcazar & Tiffany type cabaret shows, a popular distraction for the package tourists,
                      there was no mention of the beerbar & go-go bar scene because they are not wanted.
                      I will let Rossco confirm that & remember this is policy NOW . . . not some 5 year plan.

                      Both the Bangkok & Pattaya scenes are under threat, regardless of what some may wish to deny.

                      I agree that they won't rid the country of the sex industry but it is going to be relocated one way or another. Doug says five years, I think 2 to 3 years will be enough to see it decimated from what we see now.

                      Get all the time in LOS as you can gentlemen, because these are the good old days right now.
                      Despite the high cost of living, it continues to be popular.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        (BAM @ Mar. 02 2008,20:54)
                        (jonny @ Mar. 02 2008,18:43) I have to because they are closing down half of the red-light district over here.
                        Why would they do a thing like that?
                        Read this article: http://www.newsweek.com/id/109373?gt1=10856

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          (pacman @ Mar. 02 2008,19:03) Buddhist monks elected to Thai parliament would have outlawed the entire scene years ago
                          Buddhism is a religion of tolerance. Some of the most ardent and accepted Buddhists are prostitutes as well as ladyboys. Have you noticed just how important it is to these people that about every bar has a small shrine and the staff wai's it? Nudity is a part of Buddhist art you can see today. Exposing the beauty of nude girls at temples used to be common until Christianity came along. Buddhists wish to help each other, not sever themseleves by legislation.

                          The go-gos in Patpong, etc all had to move upstairs so unsuspecting tourists didn't get the fright of their life by peeking inside.
                          Just about all gogos are downstairs.

                          There were about 30 top go-gos in Patpong 30 years ago.
                          That is weak to have to go all the way back to an event in the 1970's to dig up something that is somehow related to predicting nana's sudden demise.

                          The constant closing of all bars, clubs, etc, stopping them serving drinks are not for the spurious reasons given, but are a back door way to starve out the bar owners.
                          You are cherry picking to support your (incorrect) theories. You need to look at the laws in perspective. So how is prohibiting the sale of alcohol in stores 2-5pm and midnight-6am part of a conspiracy to starve out the bar owners? How is allowing patpong to serve alcohol on election days and holidays when everywhere else cannot starving out bar owners?

                          No entertainment business will survive.
                          LOL

                          In response to jadeite, I can only say that the World is a completely different place to 5 years ago.
                          Sorry, but I have seen it all many times before so I don't take such conjecture seriously anymore. People think they've got it all figured out when in fact they don't have a clue. 5 years ago the social order crusade was the death of Nana, or Bin Laden, or now your theories which are just another set of wild guess that will most likely be proved wrong. Five years from now we'll be hearing from people just like you with their input on how things are really different this time.

                          Nana Plaza may not be a buy at the moment, but watch this space. As soon as someone gets serious either on the selling side or the buying side, things will move quickly.
                          Or not. No matter what it is worth today, it is probably going to be worth many times that 10 years from now. By holding the property year after year like they are doing, they just can't beat that as an investment. They maximize raking in money by doing nothing.

                          Pattaya is to be developed for the upmarket tourist with an anticipated budget of 20,000 baht a day.
                          Aww, not again! 10 years ago there was a super serious directive to clean up Pattaya that was for sure going to happen and succeed with people using logic such as yours telling us why. But just look at it now.

                          Both the Bangkok & Pattaya scenes are under threat, regardless of what some may wish to deny.
                          No one is denying anything. Nighlife areas in Bangkok have closed down in recent years. There could be more ahead. The constant crys that the sky is falling are getting old however and Nana seems to be the popular choice, maybe the scare value makes it interesting.

                          these are the good old days right now.
                          Finally, something I whole heartedly agree with!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            (pacman @ Mar. 02 2008,21:03) ....The result is the World is awash with money & with equity markets under pressure like never before, the usual parking place for this excess capital has no appeal at all. Portfolios are being sold up to buy prime real estate.....
                            Darn, Pacman, I hope you're not in the investment business or, if you are, I'm delighted I'm not one of your clients.

                            'Liquidity crisis'? 'Housing slump'? 'Soaring foreclosures'? Any of that ring a bell?

                            Property markets everywhere are very much driven by local forces but, on the whole, the weakness of equity markets worldwide is replicated most places by matching weaknesses in commercial and residential property markets. There are isolated pockets of growth, but the rapid drying up of commercial credit has had a negative impact almost everywhere.

                            But in light of the counter-intuitive financial wisdom that you're so anxious to share with everyone, I've got a couple of bridges for sale you might want to have a look at......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A lot of this is down to speculation.

                              High end tourists with money to burn in posh resorts have no need to come to Thailand when they have the same things in the Carribean and Dubai and other places.

                              There are already fabulous places in Thailand for theses tourists in Phuket and other Islands and The fabulous Chiva Som in Hua Hin.

                              Investing in propert portfolios is hardly top of the agenda for funds at the moment with the sub-prime debacle and other property based funds suffering as a result of this.

                              Yes, Nana may go or it may not, it may be relocated , and pattaya may get cleaned up but do we honestly believe the hookers and the ladyboys will just say, ok thats it, lets go home? I dont think so.

                              some things change, the oldest profession doesnt!
                              seriously pig headed,arrogant,double standard smart ass poster!

                              Comment



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