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The Ladyboy Conundrum

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  • The Ladyboy Conundrum

    Here is something to think about :-

    Why are there so many ladyboys in LOS, particularly from the poorest part of the country, Issan?

    How come so many of them only look remotely Thai?

    How come so many LBs are so tall & way better looking than their natural sisters?

    How does a male who develops into a ladyboy often not go on to grow the larger male head with an Adams Apple?

    I believe the answers are linked & point to an ugly truth about ladyboys & Thailand.

    Just why does Thailand have such a high number of boys who develop as females, far more than natural occurrence would predict? Perhaps an extra chromosome appears sporadically due to centuries of inbreeding (maybe, I can't say that for sure) & who knows what other factors. But the sheer scale of transgendered boys emanating from one region specifically. i.e. Issan, defies all logic. And the switch is one way, how often do we hear of girls becoming men?

    For a boy who decides for himself to change sex is only capable of making that decision once he is mature enough to consider his options, i.e. after puberty. But our favourite ladyboys, the stunners in the bars & on the websites had the decision made for them long before the onset of male hormones & the body changes that come with puberty. A male has on average a head 50% larger than a female. In Asia the disparity may not be so much, I am no anthropologist, I just know when I see a ladyboy who swapped over from being gay in her later years looks nothing like the cuties we admire here on TLF. Our girls never got to grow into a male in the first place.

    I have been told that it is the matriarch, usually the grandmother of an Issan family who will make the decision as to which of the boy children will be made a ladyboy. Yes, MADE!! They arrange for the child to be given hormones & the rest is history. And one of the side effects of this oestrogen regime plus whatever else is the height the kids grow to plus the smoother features making them altogether prettier than their siblings.

    But that still doesn't explain the quite varied & exotic look of some of them. IMO these are the offspring of bargirl & farang encounters who, tragically, are seen as a financial burden, not as a loved member of the extended family. And please don't berate me with claims that all kids are loved no matter who the parents are. Many are but there is still those who are seen as expendable. Just as the girls are sent off to the nightlife areas to earn a living the best they can with the aim to support their family, now with the help of medical intervention, the boys are sent too.

    And ladyboys these days are considered a good investment, they can't fall pregnant & they stay working till the end of the careers. After all, who is going to marry a ladyboy? In Thai society the thought is unimaginable. I don't know what they think of farangs falling in love & taking them back to their own country. As long as there are regular payments sent home, why would they care?

    So the preponderance of new, pretty LBs isn't some localised freak of reproduction where the progeny of regular Issan farming families mysteriously started changing sex, they are the end result of a plan to create the perfect money making machine. And yes, I know how coldly clinical that sounds in the light of how many ladyboys have wonderful relationships with their families. It is impossible to present facts & still cover every contingency.

    I know I have made a lot of generalisations here & I mean no disrespect whatsoever to any of the BMs happily living with their LB partner. I post this for consideration & comment.
    Despite the high cost of living, it continues to be popular.

  • #2
    I think you've hit the nail on the head Paccers. Nothing revolutionary here but the first time I've seen all these concepts woven together into a unified theory that hangs together with no holes. Sort of a "unified field theory" for Ladyboy sciences.

    I don't want to see you get too cocky but I think you may want to dress nicely on the morning the Nobel's are announced.
    Making newbie mistakes since 2009 so you don't have to




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    • #3

      He always dresses nicely.

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      • #4
        (pacman @ Jan. 03 2011,09:26) I mean no disrespect whatsoever to any of the BMs happily living with their LB partner
        None taken...I live with a very very very pretty Thai boy...

        Now where is the #1 button on that rating system...
        "It's not Gay if you beat them up afterwards."  --- Anon

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        • #5
          (pacman @ Jan. 03 2011,09:26) I have been told that it is the matriarch, usually the grandmother of an Issan family who will make the decision as to which of the boy children will be made a ladyboy. Yes, MADE!! ...............

          I know I have made a lot of generalisations here ...... I post this for consideration & comment.
          Pacman .... make generalisations? Surely not!  

          From what little I know (very little!) the first one to spot a LB is often grandmum (often at age 2 or 3)  But I mean spotting behaviours that already exist, never heard any widespread influencing or very early hormones.   And in a Chinese Thai family, the thought of eldest son being LB is a complete no-no to grandmum too.
          TT

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          • #6
            Any excellent piece of data free analysis, I have forwarded it to the respectable Journal of Irreproducible Results
            "Snick, You Sperm Too Much" - Anon

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            • #7
              C'mon guys, it's only a hypothesis at this point. Pacman will now be embroiled in a couple of years of fundraising before he can devote time to the research needed to develop the theory beyond the hypothesis stage.

              When will you guys be publishing your next hypothesis, anyway?

              Sheesh... everyone's a critic!
              Making newbie mistakes since 2009 so you don't have to




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              • #8
                There is nothing like this going on in the Philippines, but there's a very large and growing population of ladyboys (transpinays) and I don't see much difference between them in terms of head size.

                I suggest that quite a lot of them simply have lower testosterone, they are often diminutive compared to their male classmates, thinner, smaller testicles, even before they use hormones, which a lot don't and still they appear quite feminine.

                Hence, part of the answer may be in the endocrines.
                www.CebuLadyboy.com
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                Also check our new site: www.AngelesLadyboy.com
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                www.TransOriented.com

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                • #9
                  There is something in the Academia section Counting Ladyboys, why so many in Thailand? that also discusses this subject.

                  Pacman - I would have to disagree with you on this one - while there may be some instances that a family may "force" a child to become an lb, of all the ones I've met so far, none of them have mentioned it in passing. This subject was a matter of some heated discussion in "The Hung Angels Forum" a few years ago, when one member posted this was a wide spread practice - but there was never any evidence to support that claim.

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                  • #10
                    (Snick @ Jan. 03 2011,11:36) Any excellent piece of data free analysis, I have forwarded it to the respectable Journal of Irreproducible Results
                    I think the Editorial Board will fast-track this one.
                    Did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage

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                    • #11
                      Having been with a number from the deep south when down that way and many others that shuffle off on the Bangkok track who came from the "far" north of Chang Mai/Rai that blows the Isarn theory,. O.K blown to smithereens. DD Smashed even!.

                      I guess if you base most of your observation time on the Isarn Mecca of Pattaya your sample gets "skewed". Isarn is literally "down the road" Can't say ever looked at head size and when the average LB has a lot more hair than her Thai Boyfriend that requires further investigation, which leaves the hormones. Does the average poor Isarn/else where rice/other farmer/labourer family have spare Bhat for the luxuries of hormones??. The girls we meet in the popular bars are pretty much the cream of the cream. As others have pointed out on the fringes you find the odd pearl, but mostly it's "pretty femboy" in a frock.

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                      • #12
                        Does the average poor Isarn...family have spare Bhat for the luxuries of hormones??.
                        Yes...They only cost pennies...For less than 100 baht a ladyboy can buy hormones to last a long while...About the same cost as white whiskey...The whiskey never last as long though...
                        "It's not Gay if you beat them up afterwards."  --- Anon

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                        • #13
                          (rxpharm @ Jan. 03 2011,12:00) Pacman - I would have to disagree with you on this one - while there may be some instances that a family may "force" a child to become an lb, of all the ones I've met so far, none of them have mentioned it in passing.
                          So because none of them mentioned it, you disagree?

                          It is hardly the sort of thing that a Thai LB is going to mention -

                          "before I had a chance to decide for myself, I was force fed (or injected) female hormones thus changing sex"

                          By the time the LB is 18 & asked what did they want to be when they were a child is beside the point. By the time they are asked, they have been on hormones so long they don't know any difference.

                          I am surprised by your response RX, you are one of the guys here I expected to get it. Nevermind, all opinions are welcome.

                          This subject was a matter of some heated discussion in "The Hung Angels Forum" a few years ago, when one member posted this was a wide spread practice - but there was never any evidence to support that claim.
                          I would be curious to read that to see what lines of argument were pursued.

                          And Hung Angels!! Now there's a site where you will see the late changers, the transexual male-to-females with their enormous male heads featuring male noses, ears, etc. Compare their looks with the sweetest of the Thai ladyboys, no comparison whatsoever...      
                          Despite the high cost of living, it continues to be popular.

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                          • #14
                            (Torurot @ Jan. 03 2011,13:06) Having been with a number from the deep south when down that way and many others that shuffle off on the Bangkok track who came from the "far" north of Chang Mai/Rai that blows the Isarn theory,. O.K blown to smithereens.    DD Smashed even!.
                            I never said I was referring to only Issan. I made the point that a disproportionately high number come from the north west, the hormone regime responsible for the presence of so many ladyboys is available everywhere in LOS & as Kahuna pointed out, they are as cheap as chips.

                            Blown to smithereens?? I will let others decide that, your argument does absolutely nothing to sway my opinion.

                            I guess if you base most of your observation time on the Isarn Mecca of Pattaya your sample gets "skewed".  Isarn is literally "down the road"   Can't say ever looked at head size and when the average LB has a lot more hair than her Thai Boyfriend that requires further investigation, which leaves the hormones.  Does the average poor Isarn/else where rice/other farmer/labourer family have spare Bhat for the luxuries of hormones??.  The girls we meet in the popular bars are pretty much the cream of the cream.  As others have pointed out on the fringes you find the odd pearl, but mostly it's "pretty femboy" in a frock.
                            I am not sure what your argument is exactly based on this post.

                            And remember, not all Thai LBs have the advantage of starting so young. There are many cross dressing gays who look no better than their western counterparts. Just that in the west if we started pumping hormones into children, we would be arrested for child abuse.

                            Amazing Thailand when an entire country can look the other way when they all know what is going on. And I had that confirmed by a local who told me that many educated Thais were deeply ashamed at the travesty foisted onto the poor of Issan. And other places.

                            (I should point out that he never used the language above, I have condensed a one hour conversation to one paragraph.)
                            Despite the high cost of living, it continues to be popular.

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                            • #15
                              Hopefully this is a reasoned debate (prob without much hard evidence to support or oppose).  Paccers invited differing views, if i'm not mistaken, and others have responded.

                              Paccers is sure his opinion is correct (based on one conversation?) and he may well be. But why should RX 'not get it'?  I've got a strong belief that many(?) Ladyboys grow up that way because of something they were born with.  But that is based on only my 5 years in the LB scene (and no facts at all - apart from the Chinese Thai link which i'm very sure about).  OK, we aren't talking about the gay boys who decide at 19 to start becoming a LB.  

                              Clearly the LBs wouldnt know if their feelings were original or induced, but the theory sounds very exaggerated. Yes, there has been debate on this subject before, but I've never heard about grannies force-feeding hormones into 2 year olds boys, with a long-term plan in mind.  But as you say, This Is Thailand  
                              TT

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