How can I get a MC license in Thailand?

[George Pill]

https://www.pattayaone.news/tourists-face-jail-thai-licence/

How does a tourist obtain an MC license legally and/or illegally? Just curious.

BTW, if you are a first time visitor you must ride the scooter-taxis. They are crazy speed demons. They will take you on the wildest ride of your lives and weave in and out of traffic. They even cut over the solid line and drive AGAINST on-coming traffic. Hey! Where you going! In stuck traffic they can weave between cars at a brisk 30 mph. Just squeeze your thighs together tightly and make sure you have health insurance. I have several videos of this incredible experience recorded on my GoPros. So bring yours and go Bangkok. Unforgettable experience you will tell all your friends back home. They don't call it Bangkok for nothing.

[rxpharm]

George, if you read the article is is pretty clear as stated by a Thai police official:

Pol Maj Arut said that all tourists must be in possession of an international driving licence (or other legal permit) to rent and ride a motorcycle at the resort.

A tourist needs to have a motorcycle license from their home country, and then also get an international driver's license that also covers motorcycles.

[Rockheart]

Whenever possible i get a ladyboy to rent stuff with their ID, and also drive most of the time.
I won't drive in Bangkok and avoid taking motorbikes as much as possible in the city.

I've rented cars twice in Buriram with my Canadian drivers license. Although it is not nearly as hairy to drive out there.
I've driven all over the country side Buriram, Sikaset, Surin, Phanom Rung, Nakon Ratchcisma etc.

When asked about getting an international drivers license I was told my Canadian Provincial drivers license already qualifies as an international license.
Not sure if all US and Canadian licenses are international but i suspect they are. I don't think international drivers licenses are that common anymore.
I've never needed one to drive or rent anything in Thailand. I have never been pulled over while driving in Thailand.
However been pulled over many times with Thai drivers.

[George Pill]

So that means we have to get a tourist visa, bring recent copies of our checking and savings accounts, our state's driver's license, show proof of how much money we are bringing in and a copy of our airline entry and exti dates, report where we're going to reside during the entire time we are there AND report within 24 hours where we change residences or we will be jailed and fined like terrorists, and then they will say we are supposed to bring an INTERNATIONAL motorcycle license and not a state or STATE one. All you need is for just one required item to be missing for them to say, "NO!" I suspect this kind of humbug is why so many people overstay their visas. Too much red tape. I think the cops are gaming the system to entrap all foreigners into becoming innocent criminals and, thus, rip them off with fines to pad their TEA MONEY funds. There have been only two accidents involving Arabs so why penalize everybody? Is there a war going on but only in their minds? I really hate that I have to show financial proof of my bank accounts. Now I worry that the questionable junta will one day rip all of us off and just deny involvement. Does the USA require Thais or anybody to show such sensitive data in the name of terrorism? I would really like to know.

[George Pill]

FYI, someone did whisper to me that I could obtain an mc license easily by going to an upstairs office on Soi New Plaza which is right across Pattaya Second Road from the upper end of Soi 8. I never did apply as I was suspicious the seller might squeal to the cops and collect a reward. I learned this scam from the Lonely Planet Guide Thailand where a Chiang Mai tuktuk driver will sell a gullible tourist some pot and then report him. To this day I have never seen a Thai driver's license.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pattaya+City,+Bang+Lamung+District,+Chon+Buri+20150,+Thailand/@12.9346759,100.8857184,19.71z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x310295924d31d7e3:0xa97ff301a9bd1 0ff!8m2!3d12.9235557!4d100.8824551

Ladyboys carry a national ID. Most are in Engish and some are in Thai. I have noticed sometimes the photos suspiciously don't match my guests' faces. Some have stolen ones or are borrowing from their friends. Why does this matter? Because some might be underage and you can be charged with pedophilia. Ignorance of their ages will not be an excuse in a Thai court. Scary, no? I can't tell because Asians all look so young with their small frames. Remember to take a photo of their ID at the hotel desk where there's bright lights and of them being photographed by the hotel check-in cameras. ALWAYS. Remember I was accused of being a pedophil at the Honolulu International Airport back in 2015? I think they realized they made a mistake when they found the photos of their ID's showing their faces and birthdates, the recorded dates of my dates, and the hotel photos and my photos matched their ID photos. Good thing I kept records. Even got their measurements, weights, LINE chat names, emails, etc. Where'd I learn to do that? From a video of the German records of the Holocaust. They recorded EVERYTHING.

[rxpharm]

Whenever possible i get a ladyboy to rent stuff with their ID, and also drive most of the time.
I won't drive in Bangkok and avoid taking motorbikes as much as possible in the city.

I've rented cars twice in Buriram with my Canadian drivers license. Although it is not nearly as hairy to drive out there.
I've driven all over the country side Buriram, Sikaset, Surin, Phanom Rung, Nakon Ratchcisma etc.

When asked about getting an international drivers license I was told my Canadian Provincial drivers license already qualifies as an international license.
Not sure if all US and Canadian licenses are international but i suspect they are. I don't think international drivers licenses are that common anymore.
I've never needed one to drive or rent anything in Thailand. I have never been pulled over while driving in Thailand.
However been pulled over many times with Thai drivers.

According to the Canadian Embassy in Thailand a Canadian Driver's License is NOT recognized in Thailand;

Driver€™s Licences


The Embassy of Canada in Thailand does not handle driver€™s licenses or vehicle registration and cannot guarantee information herein. Please contact the relevant authority for the most up-to-date information.

Driving in Thailand requires either an International Driving Permit or a Thai Driver€™s Licence. A Canadian licence is not sufficient. Tourists should acquire an International Driving Permit in Canada before they arrive in Thailand, as a Thai driver€™s licence can only be obtained by residents of Thailand.

International driver's license can be obtained from the CAA in Canada or the AMA in the USA.

Also regarding George Pill's rant about reporting requirements about where we stay in Thailand, how much money we bring in, he is conflating it with the requirements for a retirement visa. A tourist visa does not have reporting requirements about when we move around in Thailand, nor how much money we are bringing in. The requirement for proof of an onward ticket has always been there, but has rarely been enforced for visitors coming in who are from recognized countries that can get a 30 stamp on entry. (Not the same as a tourist visa).

As for recognition of your country's driving license internationally, that is a decision made by the country you are going to visit. Many European countries may recognize a Canadian or American driver's license, but will not recognize an African or South American one - and the same goes for all other countries. You should not have the expectation that a western driver's license should be considered "international" in all countries and check official information to determine what is actual fact.

[Rockheart]

My Provincial government insurance agency that issues my drivers license specifically told me that my drivers license qualifies as an International drivers license.
This is different than an International Driving permit that must accompany your real drivers in some places.
However you are correct Thailand does also require an IDP.

I was told that my drivers license was sufficient for my existing auto insurance to cover me while driving in Thailand, which is all I really cared about.
Since i never plan to drive a car in Thailand ever again, unless perhaps i am out in the country, i probably will never get one.
Cops out in the country are far different from the ones in the city also, everything is more laid back and negotiable.
No where in Europe or anywhere else i have been requires this and I've rented cars in many countries.
Cops never pull you over in Europe, the machines just send you tickets automatically, so i doubt you would ever have trouble even if it was required.
I have a collection agency after me for $1000 worth of tickets that Italy sent me 3 years after I was there.
What a shitty tourist policy sending them tickets after they leave.

Still I have never had a problem renting a car or motorbike in Thailand with my regular license, although I have never rented from Hertz or any major rental company. In Buriram many independant businesses rent motorbikes and cars with not much hassle, just like most smaller places.
Renting a car at the airport I am sure they would ask for an IDP.
If I did get pulled over I would not be concerned as to what would happen. Generally cars don't seem to get pulled over much in Thailand anyway.
Real fines in Thailand are super low and often it is just going into their pocket anyway.
Most of the check stops I've seen are pulling over motorbikes and not cars.
Also they tend to pull over Thai people more for some reason. I've never seen anyone pulled over on the freeway for some reason.

Anyway, as I say i try to get ladyboys to rent and drive any motorbikes that may be required.
Occasionally i even buy a motorbike, but do not drive it.

George is right though I have never seen a ladyboys Thai drivers license, only their ID card.
That is all they need to rent a motorbike.

[George Pill]

Good that Canadian and US driver's licenses qualify as International, but does Thailand have their own set of rules whether to recognize them as such? Same for "tourist prices". Hope so. I hate it when host countries encourage tourism and then surprise us with ridiculous rules to scam us out of money and make our vacations miserable. Like every country there are scams where you are required to give your credit card info and place of residence and after that they will sneak in with a spare key and steal their bike back. What I would do is rent the bike in the morning, drive around, and return it at the end of the day. I've thought about bringing a strong lock and buying a length of chain, but a crew of men can just pick it up and throw it into the truck. You could pay a bigger tip to the night watchman, but the clever thieves will just offer a bigger tip. There's a lot of thievery in many third world countries because of poverty. Working for a normal wage does not work. Same in the USA. We tourists are the perfect fat rich pig so be careful and think how a thief can outsmart you. Be smart and outsmart evilness, and you will return home with a smile.

As for the dangerous Arab ninja riders I think there should be larger fines high enough to make them think they need to stop their craziness. B1K is way too small for us rich visitors. Make it large as the value of their motorcycles. If they continue to cause problems, then jail time. All of us will notice there are very few cops on motorbikes. The government should buy more from their own motorscooter factories. In addition there should be more plainclothes cops AND foreigners posing as pedophile customers as it was done in Soi 6. I would love to volunteer my eagle eyes. Thailand's cops are too corrupt, poorly paid, disorganized, a joke. There has been a removal of the Pattaya Police chief again. Hope a new national cop will solve the problem or is it just a way for the junta to steal the local tea money market scam. I will watch.

[Rockheart]

No as Rxpharm stated Thailand requires Canadians to have a International driving permit along with their Canadian license, it is not a scam.
Thailand does not charge you more for anything, you pay for the permit in your own country at AAA or CAA.
Many countries do this for other countries who speak different languages. I believe these permits can also provide translations of your
Many countries like most of Europe don't require this.
Technically my Drivers License is international, some countries just require the permit.

[George Pill]

I kid you not there was a Thai online news report within the last 30 days that they were going to require all foreigners to list their places of residences and must report any changes within 24 hours. They are taking this serious and will fine and imprison failures to do so. This security matter is going to become law for every one of us Tourists, farangs, and non-Thais. This is like martial law. Has a war started somewhere? I smell an ulterior motive here.

Found the article.

https://perfecthomes.co.th/tm030-registration-thailand/

This article below describes the incredible frustrations dealing with the new law. Makes you want to stop visiting. Don't think about moving there. Don't buy any condos and let the market crash.

https://www.chiangraitimes.com/thailands-immigration-tightens-regulations-on-foreigners-reporting-residence.html

https://www.bing.com/search?q=thai+residence+report+requirements&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=d9e007b178ca476eb758e5677318426f&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AXK1c4IvZoNqPoPnS%21QRLON5kuGKbqDe0FjNDOP4sc65X*aDNhD0NLLtjIQYrT*xU9uzScBgntisSt2wsAzgPyIbDxEme*QC*uoW*SCzXzBc&plvar=0&PC=ASTS

I have never applied for a retirement visa. Only 2-month tourist visa every year, and I am always required to bring in copies of my bank's monthly checking and savings statement. That makes me very uncomfortable each time I must do this. I am guessing they are sick and tired of young international visa overstayers who don't bring enough money. The farang retirees are required to deposit $100K into a Thai bank every year. With the devaluation of the Euro this has created some scary crises for many who married and settled down with a new home. I would prefer not having to show my sensitive financial records who anyone is sneaky could drain all my cash without entering my bank. They should just state how much each visitor is required to brink in in cash, in traveler's checks, and their credit cards names and limits and list the residences of stay. I wonder whether they are copying a US practice or just made their own ridiculous rules.

[rxpharm]

I kid you not there was a Thai online news report within the last 30 days that they were going to require all foreigners to list their places of residences and must report any changes within 24 hours. They are taking this serious and will fine and imprison failures to do so. This security matter is going to become law for every one of us Tourists, farangs, and non-Thais. This is like martial law. Has a war started somewhere? I smell an ulterior motive here.

George Pill, once again you are misreading. The requirement for reporting has existed for a long time, but was only applicable to hotels. The wording of the law was not specific so in March 2019, they started enforcement of the registration process to owners of properties where foreign tourists stayed that were not hotels. TOURISTS are not responsible for registration of their stay, the OWNER is. The OWNER is liable for a fine of 1600 Baht for not reporting. I think there would be many people happy to hear that you will stop visiting Thailand and the ongoing posting of fake/misinterpreted news that is total scare mongering.

Here is some reliable information posted by the Australia-Thai Chamber of Commerce and 1D Property about TM-30

(UPDATE 14 JULY 2019: We have updated several sections of this article to reflect new information about Thailand€™s TM30 law for foreign owners/landlords, several exclusions, and also how renters in Bangkok can report their movements themselves, including when a landlord refuses to cooperate. Austcham (The Australian-Thai Chamber of Commerce), of which 1D Property is a member, is also investigating the application and impacts of the new requirements in an article which can be found here.

Important note: The below account of Thailand€™s TM30 requirements is not a definitive legal opinion, for which readers are encouraged to seek qualified legal advice. The information contained here is based purely on 1D Property€™s own experience as an expat real estate agency as well reputable accounts from several trustworthy sources, such as Austcham. These may differ from accounts on other forums. We will update this article as new information comes to light but only when we can personally verify the facts ourselves.

Frustrations are mounting for landlords and tenants as Thai immigration authorities enforce onerous TM30 foreigner reporting rules. 1D Property owner Wandee (Lekky) Iamyoung clarifies the TM30 reporting process, analyses its impacts, and forecasts the future for this unpopular law.

What is TM30?

TM30 is a form for reporting the accommodation of a foreigner according to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act. Under Thai law, house owners, heads of households, landlords or hotel managers who temporarily accommodate foreign nationals must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours. This includes landlords who lease their properties to expat tenants.

This law has existed for many years but was mostly applied to hotels, which automatically report guests at check-in. However, since 28 March 2019 the government is now enforcing this law more strictly to include landlords and renters as well.

Why all the confusion about TM30?

Yes, it€™s frustrating, but sadly not uncommon. The law as it€™s written is broad, with no additional information for specific cases or exceptional circumstances. It is also being applied inconsistently. As a result, there are myriad conflicting accounts online, especially relating to whether foreign owners who live in their own condo have to report themselves, what to do when your landlord refuses to cooperate, and what happens when you stay overnight at a friend€™s condo in Bangkok. Thai immigration officers often don€™t know, and I€™ve spent many hours at Chaeng Wattana in the past few weeks trying to extract answers. Even well-placed newspapers aren€™t entirely definitive; see this 24 June article in the Bangkok Post.

In the absence of clarity from the government, my advice is to rely on reputable expat business organisations, including the chambers of commerce such as Austcham, and independent international schools. I am updating this blog as new TM30 information comes to light, but only if I can personally verify it or it comes from a credible source I trust. Many questions don€™t have answers because they are untested, in which case we will have to wait and see how immigration officers treat specific cases.

Who is affected by TM30?

A strict reading of the law implies that all foreigners€™ movements have to be reported. This applies to every trip, whether in Thailand or abroad, even if only for a single night. There is no mention of exceptions or special circumstances. However, as usual, the law isn€™t being applied consistently and as time goes on we learn more about how immigration officers treat certain cases. I update this post as new information comes to light.

There is a misperception that TM30 is for Thai landlords only, who face fines for not reporting their expat tenants to the immigration office within 24 hours of their tenants€™ return from a trip. That€™s true; however, tenants must supply their landlord with the necessary documents for reporting purposes, and they may face difficulties having their visas renewed if these reports are not done properly. For example, Bangkok immigration officers at Chaeng Wattana claim they will not provide services for Thailand visa extension applications, 90-days reporting, and multiple re-entry permits. We know of cases where this was applied, and others where it wasn€™t! Both landlords and tenants need to take this seriously, and understand their respective roles.

Are there any exceptions?

(UPDATE 14 JULY 2019: Austcham have provided a list of exclusions, which I€™ve quoted below. If you work for a large multinational that helps arrange your work permit and visa at the €œone stop service centre€ at Chamchuri Square, then the third point may be a big relief as it appears that immigration officers there aren€™t currently enforcing the TM30 requirement. 1D Property has obtained a similar opinion from a legal firm with a lot of experience processing visas at Chamchuri.

• Permanent residents of Thailand are not required to be registered either on their arrivals or under the Standard 90 day reporting process. Permanent residence used to be a regular process for those staying for extended periods in Thailand;
• Those with diplomatic status are already registered and closely monitored by the relevant authorities. The same applies to international civil servants and visiting official technical experts;
• Special categories of work permit holders are also reported to be exempt from registration. These individuals are those whose work permits are handled by the €œOne-Stop Service Center€ at Chamchuri Square, designed for Board of Investment privilege holders; Smart visa holders, and also some companies with large capitalisation. (Austcham are trying to confirm this at the moment)
• Foreign personal owners of property titles have also been reported to be exempt. These property owners will normally be condominium owners (not lease holders). Such foreign individuals will already be registered on house registration books (€œtabien baan€) and mostly be holders of retirement visas, or stay permits linked to work permits. For foreigners have acquired condominiums in the name of a spouse or partner, in which case that person is required to register the foreigner in the capacity of property owner host. The exemption of condominium owners is uncertain and owners need to re-confirm their exemptions directly with Immigration authorities.

Who is responsible for TM30 reporting?

Reporting is the landlord€™s responsibility, and face fines for not doing so. Tenants must provide landlords with the necessary documentation for reporting, such as a TM6 departure form. The reporting responsibility doesn€™t absolve foreign tenants entirely, who risk problems renewing their Thai visa. We know of actual cases where visa renewal applications are currently not being processed until landlords have cleared the TM30 reporting backlog. It remains to be seen what happens when their current visas expire and they haven€™t managed to clear the infractions.

It€™s critical that landlords, tenants and agents work together. This is where a good agent can help, as maintaining the important tenant-landlord relationship should be at the heart of their ongoing service. (UPDATE 16 JUNE 2019 €“ Please note that if landlords refuse to comply with their reporting obligations then there are ways for foreign tenants to address the situation themselves, which we outline in sections below.)

Is this happening everywhere in Thailand?

Most of my property rentals business is in Bangkok, but some expat business organisations, including the Danish-Thai chamber of commerce, are reporting that Thailand€™s new TM30 requirements are currently being enforced in Bangkok, Samut Prakan, Nonthaburi and Chonburi, with plans to extend it to other provinces in future. I have heard it€™s being applied in Chiang Mai as well. I wrote this last paragraph several weeks ago so please email me if you have new information.

How does the TM30 law apply to me?

(UPDATE 14 JULY 2019: We have updated example 4 to reflect credible new information.)

The law as it stands is broad and doesn€™t address specific circumstances, such as when a tenant stays overnight with a friend, for example. However, to understand the risks, it is important to understand the way Thai immigration officers work. In our experience, they look for matching records of a foreign tenant€™s departure and return, e.g. a hotel report when a foreign guest arrives at their destination plus the landlord€™s report when they get back. It may seem self-evident that the risk of detection is low if there are no records at all, however the examples below illustrate why this is important:

Example 1: An expat tenant lives in a rented property in Bangkok and travels to Pattaya for 2 nights, staying at a hotel. Thai immigration officers will check the hotel€™s report of the foreign tenant€™s arrival against the landlord€™s TM30 report when they return home. If they match then there shouldn€™t be a problem. However, if one report is missing then they might investigate further.

Example 2: A foreign tenant lives in a rented property in Bangkok and travels abroad for 1 week. Immigration officers will check the record of departure (e.g. your TM.6 departure form at the airport) against the landlord€™s TM30 report when they return home. Again, there€™s no problem if they match.

Example 3: An expat tenant lives in a rented property in Bangkok and attends a nearby dinner party at a friend€™s condo. At 2am the tenant decides it€™s too late to go home and stays overnight. Strictly, the TM30 law says the owner of the friend€™s condo must report the visitor€™s stay, as must the tenant€™s landlord when they return home. If only 1 landlord reports then this could raise a red flag with immigration officers. However, if both landlords fail to report then this might escape their attention, but it€™s still an offence.

Example 4: A foreigner owns his own condo in Bangkok and takes a trip abroad. An update by Austcham suggests that foreign owners living in their own condo may not need to report, but this remains subject to official confirmation. Please see the separate question below dealing with this.

Example 5: A foreigner owns his own condo and invites a foreigner to stay for a week. Under a strict interpretation of the law, the owner must report his visitor€™s stay. This applies if the visitor resides in Thailand or is a tourist from overseas. If the visitor lives in Thailand then their landlord must also report when they return home. However, similar to example 3 above, if neither the owner or visitor€™s landlord reports then this might escape Thai immigration officers€™ attention, but it€™s still an offence.

Clearly, examples 1 and 2 are higher risk because there are mandatory records of the trip that you can€™t avoid, such as the hotel€™s report or the TM6 departure form when you leave Thailand. Therefore, it€™s important that the landlord reports as well so there€™s a matching record. But in the third example it appears you are still technically breaking Thai law, but the risk of detection is low if neither landlord reports the overnight stay.

As is often the case with a new legal development in Thailand, authorities aren€™t doing much to clarify confusion. In our experience, answers depend on which immigration officer we speak to! We will likely have to wait and see how very specific circumstances are treated.

Why is the TM30 law necessary?

This is unclear, as for many years the TM30 law was mostly ignored. The recent clampdown is hugely unpopular as it€™s a lot of work for Thai landlords and expat tenants alike, and ultimately will make Thailand less attractive to foreign investment. There is also legitimate concern that Thai immigration officers can€™t cope with the enormous mass of paper shuffling, which will slow processing times and frustrate the process further.

There are several suggestions as to why the TM30 law is now being enforced, including to stem the rash of condo purchases by foreign investors for the purposes of running an Airbnb business, which has been generating a lot of negative news lately. Another alleged reason is to clamp down on long-stay foreigners in Thailand who don€™t have visas/work permits, but that€™s not new. Tax evasion is another.

Do you think the TM30 law will change?

Something must surely give as landlords face more fines, more expats face visa refusals, and Thai immigration officers drown under the growing backlog of paperwork. It€™s hard to see how this won€™t impact Thailand€™s property market and eventually the economy more widely.

The difference this time is that it€™s not just foreigners who are affected. It€™s directly impacting Thai landlords €“ many of them influential €“ who rely on the expat market to lease their investment properties. It€™s also driving concern among influential business organisations. For example, 1D Property is a member of Austcham (Australian-Thai Chamber of Commerce) which is watching this matter closely and may join other chambers in Thailand to express concerns through appropriate channels.

For good or ill, it€™s not uncommon in Thailand for existing laws to be ignored by authorities, as was TM30 for many years. This is a likely scenario but hard to say when this could happen.

Another possibility is that the TM30 law is changed or dropped entirely as influential Thai landlords apply pressure on the government, supported by business organisations. In my view, this is more likely now that elections are past and the new government looks for €˜wins€™ to justify its appointment. I€™ve heard rumours that TM30 is up for the chop, but rumours are dime a dozen in this town!

How do you report?

A landlord can submit a TM30 form several ways:

• In person at the Thai immigration office, or through an authorised person (Chaeng Wattana office for Bangkok and Paknam office for Samut Prakan)
• By registered mail
• Internet (website and app). You can register for a username and password here: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/online_serivces. Note there are delays in receiving a username and password, often several weeks.

Please see our recommendations below for which options are best.

Is the TM30 reporting process easy?

Several of our landlords are experiencing problems with the online option, including long waiting times for their registration to be approved and issued with a password. Some have been waiting 3 weeks while calls to the immigration office go unanswered. If a landlord can€™t report in person or through a proxy then we recommend they use the registered mail option as they will be issued with a receipt, which at least counts as proof!

The queues at Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok are hideous. 1D Property has employed a full-time person just to wait in them on behalf of landlords. It€™s clear the Thai immigration officers can€™t cope with the workload, and there are literally dozens of desks piled high with mountains of paper, with few computers to be seen. At Chaeng Wattana, there appears to be some leeway to the 24-hour notice period. In our experience they are currently allowing 5 days before fines are applied, but we don€™t know if this is official policy or for how long it will last. My guess is they are overloaded and can€™t cope.

We have noticed that immigration officers at Chaeng Wattana seem to look only look at the last departure when checking TM30 reporting records, i.e. not all trips. A landlord could take advantage of this by only reporting only their tenant€™s last departure before they need to renew their visa, but this is a bit riskier. It certainly helps buy time while waiting for an online password to arrive. But please keep copies of all TM6 departure forms as a backup.

What if a landlord refuses to report their expat tenant€™s movements?

(UPDATE 16 JUNE 2019: We personally checked with immigration officers at Chaeng Wattana about this. If a landlord refuses to comply, then a foreign tenant can report themselves. In this case, the tenant needs to show their lease agreement at the immigration office in addition to the documents we have listed in the section below. A tenant can also report through registered mail and keep the receipt, but Thai immigration officers warned us that this method takes longer and there is no guarantee it won€™t disappear under one of the very many piles there. Please note that immigration officials at Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok claim that foreign tenants cannot report online as only landlords are able to register for a password for this option. We are aware of reports on various forums claiming some tenants have been able to report online but we will only include this as fact if we can verify it ourselves. Sadly, this kind of confusion and lack of clarity is all too common!)

For a totally smooth process with least risk, it€™s important there is a good working relationship with the landlord. We already know Thai landlords who plan to sell properties or avoid expat renters. I doubt this is sustainable as there are too many investment properties in Bangkok that depend on the expat rental market. I understand the frustration on both sides but this situation impacts both parties and they need to work together. I hope we can avoid friction because neither party is at fault, and they both share an interest in getting this law changed. I am always here to help in any way I can.

My advice is to maintain a productive working relationship with your landlord or use a good agent who can do that for you. At 1D Property the tenant-landlord relationship is central to our ongoing service, and we will ensure that landlords are aware of their reporting responsibility before the tenant signs a lease. If necessary, we will continually remind both parties of their responsibilities throughout the lease period.

(UPDATE 16 JUNE 2019: Can an expat renter report themselves on behalf of their landlord?)

Yes. An expat tenant can report their TM30 movements on their landlord€™s behalf using a power of attorney form. However, this option is only available for the in-person and registered mail options, and cannot be done online as only landlords are able to register for a password (note caveat above about information on other forums).

(UPDATE 16 JUNE 2019: Is there a way for foreign tenants to report themselves online?)

A key question that we get a lot. Only landlords can register for a TM30 password that gives them access to the website or app. So, in theory, the online TM30 option isn€™t available to tenants (see caveat above about information to the contrary on other forums). However, in practice, a willing landlord could provide you with their password, access to their email, blue book, and other documents so you can report as if you are the landlord. However, please note that this is not an officially approved method and when we asked Thai immigration officials in Bangkok about this they were understandably coy. I recommend you email a proof of attorney as well to protect yourself. I doubt too many landlords will agree to hand over this amount of control to their tenant anyway, especially their blue book and access to their email!

What TM30 documents does a tenant need to provide to their landlord?

1. Copy of current passport, including the visa stamp page
2. Copy of TM6 departure card (often attached inside passport)
3. €œName of Aliens in Residence€ form

You can contact 1D Property for samples of any of the above.

What TM30 documents does a landlord need to report?

1. 30 notification form
2. Copy of blue book (ทะเบียนบ้าน Tabien Baan Thor Ror 14)
3. Copy of ID card or passport
4. Lease agreement
5. Power of Attorney (if using a proxy)

(UPDATE 14 JULY 2019: What does TM30 say about foreign owners who live in their own condo?)

In a previous update we said it appeared the TM30 requirements also applied to foreign owners who lived in their own condos. However, Austcham have since provided an update here saying foreign personal owners of property titles have been reported to be exempt. To quote Austcham directly: €œThese property owners will normally be condominium owners (not lease holders). Such foreign individuals will already be registered on house registration books (€œtabien baan€) and mostly be holders of retirement visas, or stay permits linked to work permits. For foreigners who have acquired condominiums in the name of a spouse or partner, that person is required to register the foreigner in the capacity of property owner host.€

I€™ll defer to Austcham on this as 1D Property hasn€™t had a specific case yet, but it€™s important to note Austcham€™s statement that this exemption is uncertain and owners need to re-confirm their exemptions directly with Immigration authorities. My strong recommendation is to apply the same caution to everything regarding TM30!

(UPDATE 16 JUNE 2019: What does 1D Property recommend as the best option for TM30 reporting?)

Option 1: For Thai landlords the online method is obviously the easiest, but there are currently long delays in receiving a username and password, often several weeks. Therefore, we suggest registering online as soon as possible. You can do this yourself or, to make it easy for you, 1D Property can register on your behalf and continually chase up Thai immigration (Don€™t worry, we€™re used to it!). We will need the TM30-related documents outlined above. We will use our own email to register you and then send you your TM30 username and password, which is all you need to report yourself from that point on. Some landlords ask us to report for them all the time, which is fine too.

Option 2: Reporting in person, or through a proxy, is probably the safest option but it€™s also very onerous. 1D Property has employed a person to wait in the queue at Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok all day long on behalf our clients.

Option 3: Reporting by registered mail has the advantage of a receipt as proof. But there€™s no telling how long it will take for Thai immigration to receive and process the TM30 report, if ever! There is a real danger it will end up buried under an ever-growing mountain of paper on someone€™s desk (Believe me, we have seen it). I should also caution that immigration officers were also cautious about using this method, which says a lot.

How can 1D Property help with the TM30 reporting requirements?

1D Property is reporting on behalf of a number of landlords as their proxy. The important tenant-landlord relationship is central to our ongoing service, and this is proving to be the critical factor. Our services include:

• We can help you register for TM30 online reporting, if needed, which include chasing the immigration office at Chaeng Wattana or Paknam for your password and username.
• We can report on behalf of Bangkok-based landlords and tenants at the Chaeng Wattana and Paknam immigration offices (fee 1,000 Baht).
• We can provide detailed samples of TM30 documents that tenants and landlords need.
• We can answer questions to the extent of our experience as a Bangkok-based property agency (but we cannot provide a qualified legal opinion).

This article was produced by 1D Property for its mostly expat client base in Bangkok, as well as the Thai landlords who rely on them. It is based on our practical experience with the new TM30 requirements and does not purport to be a definitive legal opinion, for which readers are encouraged to seek their own legal counsel. The information contained here is based purely on 1D Property€™s own experience and several sources that we trust, and may differ from accounts on other forums. We will update this article as new information comes to light but only when we can personally verify the facts. 1D Property is a registered company in Thailand, owned by Wandee (Lekky) Iamyoung, who prides herself on a highly personal, professional and ethical property service for expat families in Bangkok.

[George Pill]

I am not scare mongering. I just post the original newsprint. The Thai lawmakers and cops are doing the scaremongering. As I said before, do NOT consider moving to Thailand.Too much political uncertainty. Too many silly laws and changes. Too many vague interpretations and time wasted. I like to keep my friends informed and avoiding scams. Now read the hair-puling comments at the bottom of the news. Even though the landlord is liable we foreigners are still madly inconvenienced. I think a lot of us are fed up and leaving. Glad I just visit short term. Then leave.

https://perfecthomes.co.th/tm030-registration-thailand/

[rxpharm]

I am not scare mongering. I just post the original newsprint. The Thai lawmakers and cops are doing the scaremongering. As I said before, do NOT consider moving to Thailand.Too much political uncertainty. Too many silly laws and changes. Too many vague interpretations and time wasted. I like to keep my friends informed and avoiding scams. Now read the hair-puling comments at the bottom of the news. Even though the landlord is liable we foreigners are still madly inconvenienced. I think a lot of us are fed up and leaving. Glad I just visit short term. Then leave.

https://perfecthomes.co.th/tm030-registration-thailand/

George Pill your own words make your post above a false statement.

You wrote this:

I kid you not there was a Thai online news report within the last 30 days that they were going to require all foreigners to list their places of residences and must report any changes within 24 hours. They are taking this serious and will fine and imprison failures to do so. This security matter is going to become law for every one of us Tourists, farangs, and non-Thais. This is like martial law. Has a war started somewhere? I smell an ulterior motive here.

Your own words state that the Thai government will fine and imprison failures to do so - you IMPLY that the tourist is liable - and clearly they are not. The landlords of NON-HOTEL properties foreigners stay are are liable. Tourists may be at risk if the LANDLORD does not report them, and it may affect future entry to Thailand. Any tourist that stays at hotels is NOT affected and does not have to change anything they do from previous visits to Thailand.

Your reputation for factual useful information about Thailand has been compromised and will continue to be so as long as you continue to post FAKE NEWS/ misinterpret news to scaremonger and not bother to check other factual sites to ensure your posts are correct.

[George Pill]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[rxpharm]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Great comeback for an intellectual giant! You can be certain few if any member of this forum consider you for reliable information.