Business in asia: class in session

[Guest]

Hey guys.  I've tried asking this of a few people before but the topic either died, or people got worried about anonymity. I realize no one wants to be discovered, but we're all scattered around the globe, and you'd have to get pretty specific for anyone here to "find you". So I hope all the business travelers will please contribute.

Here's the situation. I am going back to school now because I want to get a degree that will help me in the career field. Also, I have always loved traveling for business when I've had a chance to do it for work. Of course its obvious that I would like to hit asia and Thailand too- I've never been to asia.
I am interested in business and management, marketing and advertising, design and graphics, computers, etc.

I am possibly willing to shift around because I find just about every aspect of business interesting.

Here's what I'm looking for. Any and all tips and advice on how to move towards that goal. I'd like to have here an encyclopedia of how to be a world traveler business guy.

Some beginner topics to spur your contributions:
(for those who are doing this now)

1. What kind of job do you do now?  
2. How did you get into that line of work?
3. What other jobs do you know of that also travel like this? (friends, associates, aquantances)
4. What degree would you recommend for this goal?
5. Other than school, what other tips do you advise for working towards this type of position?
6. From your experience, if you could go back in time, how would you speed up the process, or improve the status of where you are now?

Thanks for reading. If you're doing this kind of thing, you may take it for granted. Please see how valuable your knowledge and experience is to someone else who wants to follow in your footsteps. Please be a mentor and help grow a body of knowledge here.  

I hope this will become a very active and full-bodied thread. Please keep the silliness and crap out- or move it to another thread.

Thanks!    

[vangough05]

I started work as a apprentice cook in the  Merchant navy. Only went to high school. After travelling, looking and learning a little bit about life, i got married. Bought a house etc. Got divorced. Started again. I learnt a bit about business . I studied books i were recommened by business friends. I relised by working for others I would never make enough to be fully self suffiecent. I read articles and books about people who were self starters such as the guy who started Macdonalds and the Guy who started Wendy's. With the litttle bit of cash that my first wife gave me after the sale of MY HOUSE. ( do u think she slept with my lawyer ) I bought a very small 25 seat restaurant specialising in Amercian style deli sandwichs ( way before Subway came to Australia )
I named my sandwiches after American singers like Frank Sinartra etc. Bang before u  know it i had success. Never be frightened to use other peoples ideas but also be aware of paten and copy right laws. Got carried away and married one of my waitress's, ( when i look at the wedding photos now, i belt the shit out of myself )  got divorced and lost another house but  got some of the cash from the business.( poor , poor pitiful me) lol
I learnt about business as i went along, to me in my business, customer relations are second to none. Of course the food is important  as well as hygene and a clean restaurant but like Macdonalds the food is seconadry to the experience and marketing. I let my dick get in the way and thats one thing u don't get taught in books and school.  ( should be rule number one ) Rules I learnt were always pay your bills on time and be honest to your creditors as if and it will happen one day u have a cash flow prob your creditors will stand by you and keep supplying u untill things even up again. Never panic when shit happens and never let your workers sense there is a problem as this will only panic them in to thinking there jobs are at risk and this in turn can lead to gossip and lost productivity which then can lead to cash flow problems which then leave u fucked.
Read everything u can about succesful people and get a sense of where they are coming from but also don't get blinded by there opininos.  Try to work it out for your self. I have no degree or ever went to uni or colledge to learn about business.I guess i was a bit lucky and luck is always needed in business but also common sense and a degree of business sense is needed. If i had the oppourtunity to study business when I was younger I guess I would have taken it but I am more of a people person then a student and I have studied people and what they do and thats where I learnt.
I am now in meat export and got into that through contacts when I was buying meat for my restaurants. So my advice is if u want to get into business, think about what u like to do, what are your interests and don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Be wary of people promising you the World as there is only one person who can get u that and that is you.
The buisness I am in now exports to Thailand and  The Philipines and that is pure coincidence that they are ladyboy heaven. I employ experts in the field of Customs anad Excise and advisers from both countrys to scout for new buisness.
I guess if they knew what i was up to in my spare time there may be a loss of face but when it really comes down to it they will lose business and money from me so i really have a small advantage. But always be discreet and be careful in who u confide in. Be thoughtful of others and that investment will be woth spades of good will to you.
I hope that may help u a little.  

[Guest]

Nice Piece, thank you for that !

[PigDogg]

I have a very strong anti-school bias. Don't like the idea of paying to do work; should be other way around.

However it seems many super-successful guys use school as a springboard but don't actually gratuate and get a degree.

Bill Gates and half the NBA don't have college degrees and Brin and Page dropped out of grad school.

[Guest]

I can't believe this had had 40 views and only 1 real reply.

This is very disappointing. =(

I'm starting to wonder how many people here are actually business travelers and how many are bullshitters.

[dummy_plug]

Grunyen, I'm by no means a "world traveler", but I do a bit of travel to Asia for work so I'll try and add my two cents for you.

1. I'm a management consultant with a global consultancy.

2. I started with my firm when I finished my undergrad degrees. Management consulting is a broad term - it encompasses almost all aspects of business and every single industry. There is not a Fortune 500 company on earth that does not utilize consultants. Services provided can include risk management, supply chain management, ERP implementations, merger & acquisition services, valuation services, financial services, and other IT consulting. Some examples of large consulting firms include Accenture (accenture.com), Boston Consulting Group (bostonconsultinggroup.com), BearingPoint (Bearingpoint.com), and McKinsey & Co. (mckinsey.com).

3. Travel in management consulting is a hit-or-miss proposition. I travel about 60-70% of the year, mostly domestically because my clients usually have most, if not all, of their major operations in the US. However, one of my clients is a Japanese company and because I provided services for some of their subs, I am required to travel to the manufacturing sites in Osaka and Yokohama. I know of several people in my firm that travel abroad for months at a time because of their client base. Some firms/offices have specialized groups to serve specific markets (i.e. Japanese Services Group, etc...) and being a part of that division will likely increase the probability of traveling overseas.

As for other jobs that travel abroad - I assume you still want to be based in the US, I would say I have a few friends in logistics (shipping and air transport) that travel to Asia as well as companies that do alot of import/export such as trading firms or manufacturing companies.

4. A business degree is probably your best bet - Finance, Information Systems, Accounting, and Human Resources management are good choices. However, most consulting firms don't necessarily look for specific education requirements - they just want bright people. I've worked with people that had history and literature degrees (typically looked upon as worthless), but they were incredibly intelligent and were able to use their talent to become top consultants.

5. I don't know of anyone in my firm that does not have at least a bachelor's degree, so I would say school is a requirement. In fact, many consultants have advanced degrees, usually their MBA or a Master's degree in some field. While this may not increase their effectiveness, it does allow you to bill out at a higher rate and therefore take home a bigger paycheck. You can supplement schooling by earning professional certifications such as a PMP, CPA, or MCSE depending on your field of expertise. These qualifications make you more "hireable".

6. I probably would have laid off the drugs in school. But seriously, obtaining relevant internships and other work experience can greatly increase your chances of being hired. There are no short-cuts per se, but if you're willing to work hard by taking more classes than required,, doing internships, and earning professional designations, then you will have an edge over your peers.

[Guest]

Thanks DP, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.

I have to run to class now, but I'm going to PM you later if that's OK. I have lots of questions about consulting, its something I've been interested in for a long time. I think I have a knack for it.

[rxpharm]

1) Currently working as an instructor/course program developer in a Middle Eastern college

2) Well, a bit of luck. Work as an ex-pat hospital pharmacist in the Middle East over the past several years gave me an edge on other applicants, plus I had several excellent references. This current job gives me 8+ weeks of holidays per year. Only 7 hours from Thailand. My previous ex-pat jobs were about 6 weeks of vacation a year.

3) A job in ex-pat health field in the Middle East will get you about 6 weeks of vacation a year, but life outside work is quite variable depending on how strict the country is. Ranging from quite liberal in Dubai, to extremely strict in Saudi Arabia.

4) Positions that are in big demand in the Middle East health care market are nurses, clinical pharmacists, doctors specialized in endocrinology, ER, ICU.

5) sorry, I know you do not want to make a career change at this point!

6) actually this was kind of serindipity that I started working ex-pat, major health care cuts resulting in layoffs in the mid 90's prompted me to seek a change.

[Guest]

This brings up a good point. Does anyone have any general tips or resources on becoming ex-pat?

I wouldn't even begin to know where to start. I assume you'd get your passport ready, but that's all I know.

How do you find jobs overseas? How do you arrange living space? How do you interview for jobs when they are in other countries? I assume you have to get Visas or some other kind of travel paperwork... do you do that after you get the job or before?

Oy.
Frankly, I consider myself to be a real smart guy and adept at many things, but the idea of moving kind of scares the crap out of me. Even if it was moving to a different state.

Travel doesn't bother me. I've been to maybe 10 countries, and done business travel to maybe 10 different cities. but those are easy to arrange. One great skill I have is learning my way around a new city- pretty much once I walk around, I've got it all figured out.

It seems like you would have to have a lot of money saved up to do all this, but that's probably because I don't know exactly how to go about it, and its scary- so it seems like money being the universal lubricant would make it all easier.

[rxpharm]

There are recruiting firms that specialize in hiring ex-pats. For medical professionals there is an on-line site called Medhunters - website: www.medhunters.com. You register on-line and can browse various job openings. There are also more traditional recruiting companies, such as Helen Ziegler & Associates, HCA International, etc.

For other professionals, I imagine there are other recruiting companies. You just need to do a Google search.

If you are serious about taking the plunge to work ex-pat it is like taking the plunge to make your first trip to Thailand. Just like the Nike ads - Just Do It!

Also it helps to write your CV in a way that reflects an ability to cope with change, and work with various different cultural groups.

Once you have successfully worked ex-pat you become a valuable commodity. Not everyone can successfully work in a different country, and recruiters will keep you in mind whenever something opens up and you are available. It will get to the point they will send you information about openings, instead of you looking for them.

Of course you need to maintain your job marketability, keeping current etc, to stay in demand.

If you are in a profession that is in demand, you do not need a lot of money to do it. The jobs you apply for will be good paying and good benefits, plus some countries have low or no tax, depending on your own country's tax laws. In "hardship" countries like the Middle East you will also get fairly good holiday time that allows for a lot of travel. There will also be a paid annual airticket home for each year worked. Sometimes you can take the cash in lieu and book your own ticket home (with stops in Thailand or Bali, Malaysia, etc) instead of going through Europe if you want. Housing is usually provided, travel allowance (to go to work), medical coverage, etc.

[PigDogg]

Does anyone have any general tips or resources on becoming ex-pat?

http://www.thaivisa.com/

[dummy_plug]

Grunyen, PM me whenever you want and we can chat about consulting.

I would seriously advise you to work for a multi-national in the US first before you try and become an ex-pat. Traveling in a country, even for a prolonged period of time, is a heckuva lot different than relocating and moving there permanently. Working for a few years in a job that allows you to travel abroad gives you time to assess your options and determine if you would really like living there. Additionally, many firms offer you the chance to go on a rotation abroad and will pay relocation assistance and give you your wage in US dollars. A friend of mine is on a 2-year rotation in Dalian, China and is living like a king simply because he keeps getting his wages based on his US salary.

Also, somewhat from personal experience, job hunting in a foreign country remotely from the US is very difficult. I tried that a few years ago after the consulting industry fell flat on its face and was fearing a pink slip (whew - didn't happen). I applied to several jobs in Shanghai and took PTO time to fly there to interview. Half of the places I applied to had great websites and seemed professional, but when I got there these businesses were located in veritable shitholes.

[Guest]

I would seriously advise you to work for a multi-national in the US first before you try and become an ex-pat. .....
.....Working for a few years in a job that allows you to travel abroad gives you time to assess your options and determine if you would really like living there. Additionally, many firms offer you the chance to go on a rotation abroad and will pay relocation assistance and give you your wage in US dollars.

This definately sounds like what I had in mind.

I just always assumed that consulting jobs were super highly competitive. I am a smart mutherfucker, and I'm damn good at what I do though.

The reason I'm back in school now, I found myself in marketing (mostly out of dumb luck)- and decided I really liked it. But the company went south, and then I couldn't find another similar job without the degree. Everyone expects a friggin BA now as a minimum requirement.

The irony is I take learning and education seriously. I already am light years beyond the elementary classes I'm taking and the other neanderthal students. It's ironic that I'm really just there "for the piece of paper". Not because I don't believe in education, but because I already learned all this shit on my own and they won't even listen to me without the paper.

The pisser is the neanderthals around me graduating are flooding the market, depressing the value of a degree, which is why it's now a minimum requirement.

[Mai-Kee]

I don't know how old you are, but age is pretty crucial when you're looking for a career change. Companies don't hire easily middle aged overqualified professionals, who want to start somewhere totally different from the scratch.
But check out:
http://workabroad.monster.com/
http://www.ekornferry.com/library....=1&PN=2

Good luck,

MK

[PigDogg]

For American citizens only:

No college degree required but these postions are highly competetive. Recommend you sign up for the exam. It's free and no problem if you don't show up on game day.

Free housing and lots of other perks.

PM me if you have questions.

http://www.careers.state.gov/officer/roles/index.html

http://www.careers.state.gov/officer/join/examinfo.html