Scuba Diving Qualifications

[Ozzie]

A friend from Canada is heading to Thailand for the first time on Friday and asked me about where is the best place to get his diving qualifications?


He will also be going to Philippines so he could also do it there.

Thanks

[Snick]

http://seaworld-phuket.com/

[pattayachris]

Without a doubt the cheapest place to get an underwater certification is on Koh Tao.
The competition is so fierce that a PADI Open Water Course can be done for 8000 baht.
Everywhere else in Thailand is about the same 12000-14000.
To save your friend spending his holiday time in a classrom learning academics you can do the theory on line through PADI. Then just turn up do an exam and the dives.

[Snick]

Koh Tao is cheaper, but the diving is SO MUCH BETTER in Phuket

[halla]

(Snick @ Dec. 01 2009,10:06) Koh Tao is cheaper, but the diving is SO MUCH BETTER in Phuket

Plus the teaching you would get in Koh Tao would probably be a lot weaker. How do you think they make up for the low prices?

Big classes. Because of this the instructor will have less attention to give each student, getting through the skills and knowledge will take longer time (unless they skip something), and safety can at times be a little so-so.

If you're not on a totally backpackers budget, I would stay clear of doing any course on Koh Tao.

If you're planning to hit Pattaya, do not let that place be his first underwater experience, unless you want him to stay dry for the rest of his life. The diving there is just so bad.

[Stewart]

(halla @ Dec. 01 2009,17:11)

(Snick @ Dec. 01 2009,10:06) Koh Tao is cheaper, but the diving is SO MUCH BETTER in Phuket

Plus the teaching you would get in Koh Tao would probably be a lot weaker. How do you think they make up for the low prices?

Big classes. Because of this the instructor will have less attention to give each student, getting through the skills and knowledge will take longer time (unless they skip something), and safety can at times be a little so-so.

If you're not on a totally backpackers budget, I would stay clear of doing any course on Koh Tao.

If you're planning to hit Pattaya, do not let that place be his first underwater experience, unless you want him to stay dry for the rest of his life. The diving there is just so bad.

100% correct. Friends of mine were dive instructors in Koh Tao for 2 years, but left last year for safety reasons ie they were being forced to take classes with 8 divers to 1 instructor. Fuck that.......the weak teaching will be the least of your worries.

The best diving is the Similans. Anywhere else in Thailand is pretty average diving, but ok for learning.

The best place to learn is probably Phuket. They have 2 or 3 pools where you can do the first day theory and basic equipment learning, then out to the dive sites to to the diving part of the PADI courses.

All the dive shops will pick you up from any hotel on the island, so you can still stay in Patong if you want. All the dive boats leave from Chalong.

Or you will find dive shops in Krabi or Koh Lanta.

Depending where he is going in the Philippines, the actual diving will be far, far superior than Thailand. I did a lot of diving at Sabang Beach, Puerto Galera. The diving there is top class. Boracay is also pretty good.

[Stewart]

Also tell your friend that the number one cause of diving accidents is dehydration ie going on the piss the night before, and then going diving the next morning.

Not a good idea

[Ozzie]

Thanks everyone I have passed the information onto him.

[Rick O'Shea]

Sorry, I can't let this one go.

I have dived all over Thailand and I became an instructor on Koh Tao, spending 4 months there last year, having visited five places throughout Thailand in order to select the most professional (which includes safety) and value for money

Koh Tao has something like 32 dive schools; at least two of those (Bans and Crystal) have won awards from PADI for their teaching (against opposition from the rest of the world) and are world class, as recognised by PADI - check out their own web sites and then PADI's for confirmation. They both have their own pools and classrooms (as do others, but I don't have personal knowledge of them) and, importantly, they have their own boats for the open water component of the course. Their safety record is second to none, their instructors are very good and they offer courses in at least eight languages. Oh yes, their accommodation - your own room , ensuite but no hot water or bog paper (don't ask!) for 300 baht per night.

So why are they so cheap, I hear you ask. Primarily because Koh Tao is on the backpacker circuit and they are sausage machines with the youngsters i.e. gap year students coming in one day and leaving four days later as qualified (but importantly, not experienced) divers. Given volume, as any business person can tell you, you can reduce the overheads allocated to each unit (i.e. new diver) to a minimum. It's a slick and incredibly safe operation and is certified as such by PADI. So unless people can produce facts rather than opinion in saying all diver training on Koh Toa is unsafe, why not believe PADI? Teh comment about class size is not borne out in my experience

What I would say though is (a) check out the state of the monsoon. The water in KT can have 30 metre visibility or 0.3 metre in the monsoon. It began to clear in late December last year, but wasn't really good until February whereas on the other coast (Phuket, Krabi etc), the visibility tends to be better in December (b) the reefs in KT have been hammered by 15000 plus dives on them per year - but all novice divers are still gobsmacked when they come up. Personally, I would learn in KT and then move over to Phuket where the diving is better but much more expensive. And the nightlife is much more suited to those who lurk on this forum!

If anybody is seriously interested in my opinion (based, as I say on having dived throughout Thailand and looked very hard at diver training in five places) or has any query (like that rather silly comment about class sizes), please pm me in the next month and I will do my best to answer their questions. But please, do not slap down aspersions on safety without facts to back up your statements - it's people's livilihoods at stake here. I say the next month because I'm going back to Koh Tao for further training and hopefully to start teaching there in January. Trust me, I wouldn't be doing that if I had any doubts about class sizes or safety.

[Snick]

I can't say anything about the quality of the dive instructors in Koh Tao, my suggestion of Phuket was based solely on it being better diving.
Even in monsoon season Phuket area diving is better than Koh Tao. That's my opinion.
Certification in Phuket is probably 2000-4000 more than Koh Tao, the cost of getting to Koh Tao is 4000 more than Phuket (Bangkok Air vs Air Asia)....i.e. no saving.

I suggested Sea World because I dived with them, and had a friend get certified there.

[halla]

Koh Tao has something like 32 dive schools; at least two of those (Bans and Crystal) have won awards from PADI for their teaching (against opposition from the rest of the world) and are world class, as recognised by PADI - check out their own web sites and then PADI's for confirmation.

You as a PADI proffessional should know that PADI awards quantity, not quality. If you have a dive center wich produces a lot of certs they will reward the center and give them a higher rating in the PADI system.

PADI doesn't like that centers work with different agecies aswell. Let's say a center is involved with NAUI and PADI. In the PADI system it is only a PADI dive center. If you stop working with NAUI and go exclusively with PADI, BOOM, you're a Padi 5 star dive center. Why? Cus you're now only making money for PADI.

I see that the two centers you've mentioned are CDC centers. A CDC center is the highest ranking a PADI. I guess you think that this makes the teatching here better. Fuck off! Doesn't mean anything. You might get better training at a 5 star IDC center, maybe not. If it's a CDC center doesn't mean that they have better course directors and instructors. Just that they produce more business in developing instructors.

The same goes for individuals. PADI rewards quantity. Do you blindly think that a platinum course director is better than a silver course director? I shure don't. It just mean that the platinum course director worked in a busier dive center, or a dive center more commited to develpoing instructors than dealing with "normal customers", last year.

I do not have a good source for producing numbers now, but this is from Lonely Planet (which is subjective, I know):

Ban's Diving Resort - Sairee Beach

Ban's is the Biggest and most popular Dive Resort on Koh Tao. Ask anyone who has ever been to Koh Tao and they'll know where it is.
But with every big company, they are pros and cons, judge for yourself if this is the right place for you to learn how to scuba dive.

Pros: Nice rooms, beautiful reception/office, the center of all the night life with it's own great bar - The Fish Bowl, everything you need all packaged in one big resort. Great location in the center of Sairee Beach (the prime spot in Koh Tao)

Cons: Bad Reputation among Koh Tao locals for being a "Dive Factory" that doesn't care about it's divers or the environment. Huge groups of 12 students per class. Fun Dives being lead by inexperienced Divemasters and DMTs (Dive Master Trainees.) Oil leaking from their dive boat, polluting the ocean for months with no one caring enough to fix it.

The Verdict: Despite having large groups, Ban's is very well organized and does a great job getting you through your course with ease. No other dive school could pull it off as well as Ban's does. And if you're just on Koh Tao for a few days, Ban's makes it really easy for you by giving you everything you need to have a great time.

So unless people can produce facts rather than opinion in saying all diver training on Koh Toa is unsafe, why not believe PADI?

Because just following PADI standards doesn't provide a good learning environment. 8 student to 1 instuctor is not good. 12 students to 1 istructor with 2 certified assistants is not good.

PADI, aswell as other organisations, are allways lowering standards. Trying to make it easier for people to get certified in less time (SSI doesn't require you to purchase a manual. Hey! That's 2438 baht saved right there). You know that PADI is cutting the 20th skill from the open water course next year. Making it easier for students and for the instructors.

They're cutting down the IDC. Making it easier for course directors and staff instructors. I'm gonna guess they're not cutting the fee the candidates is going to have to pay!

So why are they so cheap, I hear you ask.

Wow. "Mr instructor who have dived five places in Thailand" doesn't know what the biggest difference in cost on Koh Tao and Phi Phi vs. Phuket, Pattaya, Koh Lanta, Khao Lak and Koh Samui is. Try to think about this nut for a minute of two.

I'm going back to Koh Tao for further training and hopefully to start teaching there in January

So you're working there. Guess it's easy for people to see why you try to defend the place. I do not, nor have i ever worked in Phuket, but it's one of the very few places I've been impressed by the instructors and their dedication. That doesn't make every center in Phuket good, though. You should go around yourseft till you find an instructor you feel comfortable with.

If anybody is seriously interested in my opinion (based, as I say on having dived throughout Thailand and looked very hard at diver training in five places) or has any query (like that rather silly comment about class sizes), please pm me in the next month and I will do my best to answer their questions.

So now you're advertising youreself??

Personally, I would learn in KT and then move over to Phuket where the diving is better but much more expensive.

Horrible advise! Do not take any shortcuts in your training!

it's people's livilihoods at stake here

No, it's not. Thing said here will not affect the numbers of backpackers going to Koh Tao, AT ALL! When the general consensus of the diving community in the SEAP region haven't affected backpackers, how is posts on tlf stop business on Koh Tao?

[Rick O'Shea]

I'm not going to get into a e-mail flame battle but...

I do not have a good source for producing numbers now, but this is from Lonely Planet (which is subjective, I know):

I am not promoting myself and my occupation since I do it for fun, not money and I really don't care if I get a job teaching in Koh Tao or Phuket or Cambodia or not at all, but to sneer and smear on the basis of subjective views is not something I think should go unchallenged. And just for the record, I give advice because I believe it to be true - please don't assume that just because I offer advice that I am going to bend the truth. All my views are backed up by statistics or I say why I believe something to be true. I believe that I have integrity - perhaps Halla disagrees, in which case, perhaps he would tell the world why, which will be interesting since as far as I am aware,  he has never met me or knows anything about me. I reiterate, to sneer and smear on the basis of subjective views is not something I think should go unchallenged whether that be about a whole island or an individual.

The bottom line is that Koh Tao produces lots of divers; even given a cynical opinion of PADI (some of which I actually share), every qualified diver has the details of both their instructor and their dive school recorded. If there was any evidence of increased risk of diver accidents linked to either, PADI would be all over that instructor and that dive school like a bad rash. And that just has not happened.

A final point before I close my comments on this subject for ever - Crystal Dive has just received the PADI Asia Pacific award for Diver Retention i.e. the highest number of divers having gone through open water training. This is not an award you get for producing divers with a "not giving a stuff about training" - perhaps it's an award you get for having instructors who, in just one case that I saw, spent a total of an extra, unpaid day in the swimming pool coaching a student who turned out to have a morbid fear of taking her mask off under water. They succeeded and the student concerned is now a qualified rescue diver.

Facts, Halla, not just the rant of a subjective viewpoint is what I think that this subject needs.

That's it - I've finished but I reiterate that if anyone would like to pm me, I can give my views on where to go and what to do.

[divertwo]

PADI......Put Another Dollar In.............

Just received my NAUI pin for being an instructor for 30 years with them. Also a US Coast Guard license boat captain. I'm also PADI......but only 10 years and only because Hawaii is "owned" by PADI and all shops want PADI instructors. In my opinion.......get a dive manual, read it, take the tests and have an instructor check you out and issue your card. If you can swim, read, and not afraid of the water...........don't worry about the level of the dive center aside from having safe boats I suppose. Use common sense, read the book, learn the physics, and go have fun diving. If you are afraid of the water, can't swim.....then no dive center..."good" or "bad" can help you.......

[thick81]

Until I settled down with my current partner, combining diving with LB hunting was a favorite past time

Some thoughts for your friend to consider

The course might be a tiny bit more expensive - and the dive sites are admittedly lousy - but Mermaid Divers in Jomtien would be a good bet for diving in the daytime and mongering in Pattaya at night

Took a PADI Rescue Diver course there years ago, young staff but top drawer instruction

Your friend could do the same in Patong, but it would be a 25-30 minute ride across the hill on a rented moto to Chalong (where all the dive shops and boats are located)

No recreational dive shop recommendations there, sorry (two good technical dive shops in Chalong, however)

Diving in close proximity to LB action in the Philippines becomes a bit more challenging

One thought would be to dive in Sabang (Puerto Galera) in the daytime, and ride a rented moto over the hill (25-30 minutes) to a cheap hotel in White Beach at night

While there are no LB 'bars' in White Beach, every restaurant and bar on the beach has at least two or three LBs as wait staff - all very open to meeting a nice guy, hehe

Best shop is Dive Dojo in Sabang - best resort Asia Divers in Small La Laguna (a 10 minute walk down the beach)

In Cebu, there are a multitude of dive resorts on Mactan Island - and with the Amazing Philippine show at Hadsan Cove is just down the road (or Mango Square a 30 minute / 160 PHP taxi ride downtown) you can easily have your cake and eat it too

My suggestion for your friend - meet the LB of his choice in Cebu, then take his date on the fast ferry to Bohol (1+40 ride to Tagbilaran) for a few days of fun at the beach

A very beautiful island, lots for her to do while your friend is in the water, and the diving at Alona Beach is top drawer

Best shop at Alona Beach is Sea Explorers (part of a Swiss-managed chain of dive shops in the Visayas, check their web site for some good special deals)

Some last thoughts -

A former recreational dive instructor and current trimix / full cave / technical wreck / rebreather diver, I second the comments about good training being preferable to good price

The distance learning option being marketed by some certification agencies is of significant benefit only if the new diver is on a short holiday, or otherwise limited in the number of days available to be in the water

Otherwise, it is just a short cut to a 'C' card that decreases student / instructor contact time to a minimum - and, not coincidentally, increases the numbers for the certification agency

IMHO, dive shops that cut training time to the minimum - and push their student/instructor ratio to the limits of their allowable standards - are to be avoided

There are just too many better alternatives available in Asia with just a little research and for only a few baht or pesos more

All the best

[pattayachris]

Mermaids Dive Centre in Jomtien is the biggest in town with shops in Jomtien Pattaya and Naklua. Someone told me they have a place in the Hardrock Hotel as well.
Responsible people with a good attitude.
Have dived with them and my friend always does a try scuba with them everytime he visits.
Tel +66 (0)38303333
www.mermaiddive.com