Lita's Bar

[Guest]

(kahuna @ Aug. 14 2007,05:15)

(69billy @ Aug. 14 2007,01:10) Only duty bar owners have is to make money...

And they are using this Forum to advertise...

Agreed if they want to use the forum to advertise then it should be warts and all.

[stogie bear]

I for one think we should out the bars that knowingly employ or let freelancers into their bar.

Well, we are... That's what this thread is about, right?

This is the sort of service I would expect this forum to provide at least then customers can make informed decisions.

Good - then we are meeting your expectations.

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Aug. 14 2007,05:22)

I for one think we should out the bars that knowingly employ or let freelancers into their bar.

Well, we are... That's what this thread is about, right?  

This is the sort of service I would expect this forum to provide at least then customers can make informed decisions.

Good - then we are meeting your expectations.  

OK so how about answering the other questions posed?

[stogie bear]

Like what? Did I miss something?

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Aug. 14 2007,05:27) Like what? Did I miss something?

Tell me why can't the mamasan copy the id of each girl that walks into their bar and if the girl does not co-operate tell them to leave.

Yes you did.

[Guest]

Don't give some rubbish about this Thailand etc as some bars do this already so why can't all of them?

[stogie bear]

Tell me why can't the mamasan copy the id of each girl that walks into their bar and if the girl does not co-operate tell them to leave.

None of them have a photocopier.

But seriously - there is no reason why the bar owners and employees can't ensure the ages of their workers and even the freelancers.

The question should really be why should they if their are no consequenses.

If there ARE consequences are they enough to change the way bars do business.

You can howl at me and the forum all you like but the only way to change things is with your money.

There is no moral high ground in Thailand. Prostitution is illegal and that's the bottom line. If you want to drink in bars where the minimum age to be in one is 20 then good luck finding one in Pattaya!

Is 18 or 19 years old OK for you? It's illegal, but they are adults... Is your objection about being caught screwing girls under 18 or the moral implications of screwing a girl who is under 18? The age of consent here is 15.

Why don't you write down the rules that the bars should follow and sit back and watch them laugh in your face.

Bars are breaking the law by being open. It's among many of the rules of law that aren't very strictly enforced. By reading this forum you can make yourself aware of the law, the consequences of breaking the law (and being caught) and how to minimise your risk of being caught breaking the law.

We aren't here to demonise bars who break a specific law that you just happen to want enforced. If that were the case I'd delete all the restaurants mentioned here for allowing people to smoke in them.

[Barely Legal]

Hi Guys,

In simple terms SamplerDoc is not welcome at €œLita€™s€ due to the manner to which he spoke to Lita (Conduct was totally out of order) - The issues mentioned was what contributed to the event.

In clarification of the issues raised by members due to the post i will try to simplify for members to understand how €œmany€ bars operate.

Salaried staff: Must be of legal age - 18 years and over and their ID€™s checked.

They are committed to the bar 100% and are expected to work from bar opening until close - unless bar fined. Salaried staff receive commission from drinks and bar fines. Yes you may exchange phone numbers (no problem) but bar fine must be paid should you require their services between bar opening times whether you call them prior to opening or keep them for several days and the bar should be informed.

Freelancer staff: Must be of legal age - 18 years and over and their ID€™s checked and MUST ask can they work from the bar. Freelancers can work times suitable to themselves and are not controlled by the bar opening and closing times - Freelancer staff receive commission from drinks and bar fines (usually more than salaried staff) Yes you may exchange phone numbers (no problem) If you meet a freelancer away from the bar during bar opening times it is reasonable behaviour to pay bar fine to their chosen bar so they can receive their commission and the bar can give you piece of mind. Out of bar opening times - No bar fine applies. The same applies to salaried staff - Out of bar opening times.

Freelancer or Loiter (Unknown): Simple enough - Up to you!
This type of freelancer is not under a bars control as they visit their €œfriends€ for many reasons that are of age and loiter. Obviously there is no bar fine (they€™re not of age). Usually they€™ll claim to have lost or misplaced their ID. If their willing to show details - Are they 18 already or later that year? You may be able to workout the Thai calendar to establish year of birth €¦Usually not easy for a €œfarang€ to establish day and month. So you€™ll need to seek advice in order to be 100% sure.
Advice should be given from the bar should you require to bar fine this type of freelancer. Should that bar except a bar fine then it comes under that bars responsibility! But as mentioned in an earlier post T.I.T and you€™ll probably find you€™ll be left high and dry facing the problem alone €¦. My advice avoid!

Service staff: If applicable. Must be 16 years and over and cannot offer the services of salaried staff and freelancers.

A totally freelancer bar: It has been tried in soi 6/1 but failed to generate enough money to make it viable. The outlay, rent, electric and water can not be paid from beer sales alone in the current economic climate and bars are designed to make money as well as provide customer service.

Thankyou to all who have contributed with a higher understanding of the workings of a bar especially Mardhi and Stogie Bear. Apologies to anyone i failed mention or a question i€™ve left unanswered.

I might need to remind members the topic of this thread was customer behaviour and suggest a new thread should the topic regards Ladyboy age concern and bar management policies continue.

€œLita€™s€ offers a friendly atmosphere in a prestigious environment with customer concern at heart. Barring a customer(s) is not our intention unless behaviour is unsuitable.

Best wishes,

Karl.

P.S

Socrates999: Regards e€S€(Carrot) Age 20+  was only at €œLita€™s€ 10 days. Therefore can not be considered as salaried staff therefore freelancer would apply.

[Stewart]

Freelancer staff: Must be of legal age - 18 years and over and their ID€™s checked and MUST ask can they work from the bar. Freelancers can work times suitable to themselves and are not controlled by the bar opening and closing times - Freelancer staff receive commission from drinks and bar fines (usually more than salaried staff) Yes you may exchange phone numbers (no problem) If you meet a freelancer away from the bar during bar opening times it is reasonable behaviour to pay bar fine to their chosen bar so they can receive their commission and the bar can give you piece of mind.

I disagree with that last idea.

If I am sitting in your bar, taking advantage of the seats, lighting, music, etc, that you have paid for, no problem paying bf for salaried or freelancer that I meet....at that time.

- But if I meet the same freelancer the next night (during bar opening hours) on walking street, why would I pay a bf to Lita's?
- If I meet the freelancer in, say, Triple XXX, do I still pay Lita's the bf? And Triple XXX??

If the bar does not want to pay her a salary to stay in the bar, then you lose if I meet her somewhere else surely??

[PigDogg]

(mardhi @ Aug. 13 2007,02:09) JSB

I am surprised that nobody has yet opened a totally freelance bar in Pattaya which does away with barfines, lady drink commissions etc and just ensures they undertake a age ID check when the girl enters the bar - that seems to me to be the best business model given the huge amount of freelancers working the streets in Pattaya, however it may be self defeating as to enter a bar like that - you need to be 20 years old - which is probably why nobody has done it yet.

Cheers
Mardhi

Thanks for the clarity Mardhi. Customers like clarity and Guess Bar is extremely customer friendly!

For the past couple of years I haven't been butterflying but the model you suggest I thought was the JSB model.

I never paid a barfine there and I doubt the girls got a commison on drinks cause none of the girls ever seemed interested in me buying them drinks there. Or maybe I just ugly man!

[PigDogg]

(mardhi @ Aug. 13 2007,02:09) Any ladydrink for a girl is the same price as a customer drink - the bar funds the difference for a ladydrink commission as its typically being bought along with a customer drink, so the bar is still ahead.    This also means that the drink remain easy to control and manage as everything is just one price.  

This is a smart policy even if means that the customer's drink prices need to be slightly higher.    

It irks customers that ladydrinks are more expensive.  And it really irritates customers if that drink is a spalsh of flat orange soda.

Part of the illusion is that you're buying drinks for a sweet young thing that really likes you and higher prices for the same drink or splashes of orange soda just makes it seem like a customer relationship.

Customers like buying drinks for girls if the atmosphere is right!  

C&D made the atmosphere right. They made a big point promoting that the girls will never ask for a drink. Which made it more fun to buy girls drinks, at least for me.

[kahuna]

Thank you for the information Karl, and understand that I am not tyring to single out Lita's Bar as I'm sure most of the bars,
if not all, in Pattaya operate the same way...but how would we know what category a girl belongs to in Lita's Bar?

Clearly the OP didn't realize what the relationship was with Lita's Bar...Moreover, the issue is NOT about his bahavior in Lita's Bar...
I don't give a shit what happened or who said what...the issue is solely about underage girls in the bars...

Finally, and then I promise I'll leave you alone...We have been advised  by members of this forum whose advice we trust,
that if the girl is not staff or freelance staff and is simply in the bar for a drink,
that she must be 20 years of age...not eighteen...

Cheers
Kahuna

[Guest]

(stogie bear @ Aug. 14 2007,06:57)

Tell me why can't the mamasan copy the id of each girl that walks into their bar and if the girl does not co-operate tell them to leave.

None of them have a photocopier.

But seriously - there is no reason why the bar owners and employees can't ensure the ages of their workers and even the freelancers.

The question should really be why should they if their are no consequenses.

If there ARE consequences are they enough to change the way bars do business.

You can howl at me and the forum all you like but the only way to change things is with your money.

There is no moral high ground in Thailand. Prostitution is illegal and that's the bottom line. If you want to drink in bars where the minimum age to be in one is 20 then good luck finding one in Pattaya!

Is 18 or 19 years old OK for you? It's illegal, but they are adults... Is your objection about being caught screwing girls under 18 or the moral implications of screwing a girl who is under 18? The age of consent here is 15.

Why don't you write down the rules that the bars should follow and sit back and watch them laugh in your face.

Bars are breaking the law by being open. It's among many of the rules of law that aren't very strictly enforced. By reading this forum you can make yourself aware of the law, the consequences of breaking the law (and being caught) and how to minimise your risk of being caught breaking the law.

We aren't here to demonise bars who break a specific law that you just happen to want enforced. If that were the case I'd delete all the restaurants mentioned here for allowing people to smoke in them.

Exactly the response I expected from you Stogie.

This is not so much about moral high ground as it is about going to prison.

Also I am not trying to make up any new rules I just want this particular one enforced. What a ridiculous analogy to mention smoking in restaurants as if someone is caught doing this the last I heard they do not end up in prison?

I obviously incorrectly believed you actually had some sort of obligation to your forum readers to try and help them not get themselves into such a situation but clearly I am wrong on that account too. Now I am sure you will respond that you have no obligation to anyone but yourself.

Also Karl thanks for you response but I still do not understand why you can enforce only ladies of the correct legal age enter your bar? BTW this is not just about your bar but any bar that knowingly allows underage girls enter their bar.

[stogie bear]

I obviously incorrectly believed you actually had some sort of obligation to your forum readers to try and help them not get themselves into such a situation but clearly I am wrong on that account too. Now I am sure you will respond that you have no obligation to anyone but yourself.

Get over yourself. I've done more than any one else to ensure that people are aware of the law and the consequenses of breaking it. Anyone who reads any of my posts (on any subject) will know that I'm a stickler for facts and that I try to ensure that people are presented with the correct information and not some breezy guesswork which is often tapped out by some of the dreamers on this board.

It's because of my comments on this thread and on other threads that people reading here are aware of what the law is, the fact that no bar takes the law seriously and that there are serious consequenses if you are unlucky enough to get caught.

Also I am not trying to make up any new rules I just want this particular one enforced.

OK... What age would suit you best? The law says 20, Karl says 16 for service girls and 18 for bar girls. The age of consent in Thailand is 15. Prostitution with anyone is illegal but it's more illegal (!) if the girl is under 18.

So come on smarty pants... what age is your legal minimum threshhold for enforcement? 16? 18? 20? Are you happy with 16 year old 'service staff' bringing you drinks? I'm pretty sure Karl has got this one wrong but I'll apologise if it's me that's off the mark.

How about 18... sound better for you? Still illegal by the way - but you should be in the clear when the cops come!

20 - THAT sounds more like it. Let's watch all the bars fold up their tents and make it 20!

Let's see how long it takes for the cops to come running to ensure bars that with a certain amount of consideration it really doesn't matter what age the girl is so long as the cops are getting fat.

Of course, like you, I could just blame the forum moderator or everyone else for the situation in Pattaya and expect other people to hold my hand every step of the way...

This message board offers fair debate to all and if you have a hard on for bars that allow girls under 20 (or 18) then just don't go to them. Nobody here is responsible for bailing anyone out of a jail just because they joined a free forum!

I've done more than enough to fulfil my obligations to the members of this board over the years. What have you done?

Here's an idea for you... You can start a forum called "The bars in Pattaya that operate within the law!"

Good luck with it! Should make for some fascinating reading  

[batman4ever]

thanx Karl for make me wiser..

but you have to admit...thailand is confusing sometimes...

regarding the OP...i can see the "loophole" he falled into,and why he maybe never had the "chance" to be warned by the bar....as he wanted maybe to save the BF...

actually...you should give the girl in question a small private "spanking" for giving her number to costumers when she knows she not permitted...niether by you...or the law..

but most of all....what we can learn out of this is...:

WE DO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO CONTROL THE ID`s OURSELF....

and so...lets go on with the "party"..

(33 days left  )