Police crackdown on farang motorcyclists!

[pacman]

Don't forget the Belgium lads who had the matter overlooked for 40,000 baht each. Even without well connected friends, enough money may have saved the deportation of the other 30.

It usually does. How much? Who knows? But we know 40K worked so that would be a minimum.

If the new mayor wants to clean up Pattaya & wants to send a message, then a travel ban of 6 years will go over very well with the voters & the authorities.

I was being tongue-in-cheek when I suggested testing pedestrians but I can see these bannings being more widely adopted.

The bad behaviour of farangs is something that upsets all Thais & they won't be arguing against such a move.

Especially as it is mainly Chinese Thai Hi So's who own the hotels, clubs, etc. They are seen as being enriched by farang idiots while the rest have to put up with them.

[manarak]

(azza33 @ Jan. 21 2011,04:13)

(manarak @ Jan. 21 2011,04:00) I find it hard to believe that slightly drunk drivers were kept in prison and made persona non grata for 6 years.

Ummm Where did you find the information that they were slightly drunk? *

And secondly, what do you think is an appropriate penalty for a farang driving drunk? Just a fine will do? ummm ... a fine only for potentially endangering others lives...

Whilst 6 years may seem harsh... maybe you need to reconsider your initial thoughts on the matter *

Well, the OP says:

The first sweep netted 32 drunken farangs of which 30 were held for two days and then deported with passports stamped with no return for six years.

so, except 2 who bribed the cops, ALL were held in a cell and then deported.

Among the 30, at least a couple should have been just slightly drunk, except if the cops only held the heavily drunk farangs and let the others go, but I doubt that. I guess everyone that tested positive was held - why pass on an opportunity to levy a fine?

And then I think that 2 days in a cell and 6 years of deportation is VERY VERY VERY harsh if these farang are residents who have built a life in Thailand (have a home, family, etc.) and had an alcohol level of just 0.51 0/00 in their blood, which hardly qualifies as "endangering other lives".
FYI, an average person of 80Kg will have a level of 0.5 0/00 of alcohol in blood after drinking a large Chang (half a liter).
0.49 0/00 is legal, 0.51 0/00 is illegal.

With 0.51 0/00 the average person is not physically unfit to drive.

So this seems out of proportion to me.

Another possibility is that the test turned positive not only for alcohol.
In that case I agree with the penalties.

But somehow I don't believe the initial story to be accurate.
There must be some details missing, for example that the 32 farangs were possibly only those who were far above the legal limit (like they had 1.5 0/00 or more)

And secondly, what do you think is an appropriate penalty for a farang driving drunk? Just a fine will do? ummm ... a fine only for potentially endangering others lives...

Slightly drunk (until 1 0/00 for example): a fine of 3000 baht. Repeat offender within 3 months of previous offense: 6000, then 12000 baht AND loss of license AND 1 year driving ban.
Farangs on holidays: 6 months of deportation instead of licence loss.

Quite drunk (more than 1 0/00): 10000 baht, repeat offender: 20000 baht fine, then 20000 AND loss of licence, 1 year of driving ban, farangs on holidays: 2 year deportation

Driving drunk without license: 20000 baht AND 1 month of prison, deportation even for farangs living in Thailand for 1 year.
farangs on holidays: 5 years of deportation.

That's how I see it.
I think separating a man from his family just because of drunk driving is wrong.

Let's remember that no damage has been done, and that it is not uncommon that people who attempt murder only get a suspended sentence. so let's keep things in perspective.

[pacman]

Thank you for your usual thorough analysis Manarak. I would like to make a couple of points.

This new mayor wants to "clean up Pattaya". He wants to be seen to be doing something & he wants numbers. The more farang arrested the stronger he looks.

And in the space of a few hours, the police will have no trouble finding 32 motorbike riders who have consumed two beers. The way half those morons drink while they are on holiday, they would already be over the legal limit when they get up in the morning.

It takes 72 hours for the body to process all the alcohol in the system. And when many of these guys are drinking 20 or more beers each & every day, they are going to be permanently pissed the whole time they are in LOS.

Here's the alcohol limit in LOS for anyone who hasn't held their licence 5 years - .2grams per litre. That rates as one of the least tolerant drinking policies in the world. Similar to Scandinavia.

Drink Driving (DWI/DUI)

The legal blood-alcohol limit in Thailand is 0.5 grams of alcohol per litre of blood. However, for drivers that have held their licence for less than five years the limit is 0.2 grams per litre of blood. Drivers caught over the legal limit are heavily fined and may be imprisoned or required to do community service. The government is trying to reduce drink driving and breath testing stops are becoming more common.

On average 7.5 people are killed for every 10,000 vehicles on Thailand's roads, amounting to around 14,000 deaths annually in a typical year. National holidays are when drink driving is at its highest, with as many as 600 deaths during the three-day "Songkran" festival. Drivers should take extra care at these times.

[azza33]

(manarak @ Jan. 21 2011,06:44)

(azza33 @ Jan. 21 2011,04:13)

(manarak @ Jan. 21 2011,04:00) I find it hard to believe that slightly drunk drivers were kept in prison and made persona non grata for 6 years.

Ummm Where did you find the information that they were slightly drunk?  

And secondly, what do you think is an appropriate penalty for a farang driving drunk? Just a fine will do? ummm ... a fine only for potentially endangering others lives...

Whilst 6 years may seem harsh... maybe you need to reconsider your initial thoughts on the matter  

Well, the OP says:

The first sweep netted 32 drunken farangs of which 30 were held for two days and then deported with passports stamped with no return for six years.

so, except 2 who bribed the cops, ALL were held in a cell and then deported.

Among the 30, at least a couple should have been just slightly drunk, except if the cops only held the heavily drunk farangs and let the others go, but I doubt that. I guess everyone that tested positive was held - why pass on an opportunity to levy a fine?

And then I think that 2 days in a cell and 6 years of deportation is VERY VERY VERY harsh if these farang are residents who have built a life in Thailand (have a home, family, etc.) and had an alcohol level of just 0.51 0/00 in their blood, which hardly qualifies as "endangering other lives".
FYI, an average person of 80Kg will have a level of 0.5 0/00 of alcohol in blood after drinking a large Chang (half a liter).
0.49 0/00 is legal, 0.51 0/00 is illegal.

With 0.51 0/00 the average person is not physically unfit to drive.

So this seems out of proportion to me.

Another possibility is that the test turned positive not only for alcohol.
In that case I agree with the penalties.

But somehow I don't believe the initial story to be accurate.
There must be some details missing, for example that the 32 farangs were possibly only those who were far above the legal limit (like they had 1.5 0/00 or more)

And secondly, what do you think is an appropriate penalty for a farang driving drunk? Just a fine will do? ummm ... a fine only for potentially endangering others lives...

Slightly drunk (until 1 0/00 for example): a fine of 3000 baht. Repeat offender within 3 months of previous offense: 6000, then 12000 baht AND loss of license AND 1 year driving ban.
Farangs on holidays: 6 months of deportation instead of licence loss.

Quite drunk (more than 1 0/00): 10000 baht, repeat offender: 20000 baht fine, then 20000 AND loss of licence, 1 year of driving ban, farangs on holidays: 2 year deportation

Driving drunk without license: 20000 baht AND 1 month of prison, deportation even for farangs living in Thailand for 1 year.
farangs on holidays: 5 years of deportation.

That's how I see it.
I think separating a man from his family just because of drunk driving is wrong.

Let's remember that no damage has been done, and that it is not uncommon that people who attempt murder only get a suspended sentence. so let's keep things in perspective.

Go watch the entire video on post 12...

Your response is pathetic mate.

[manarak]

(azza33 @ Jan. 21 2011,08:50) Go watch the entire video on post 12...

Your response is pathetic mate.  

Have people you know been wounded or did people you know die because of drunk driving (or because of alcohol, unrelated to driving)?

Are there parts of my post that are more pathetic than others?

What penalties would you like to see for drunk driving?

[kahuna]

No second chance...If you're falang, you drink you drive you go home with a "don't come back" stamped in your passport...

If Thai laws and punishment don't meet your standards...Go start your own country...

How difficult is it to understand, don't drink and drive...Seems pretty simple to me....

Thanks for the heads up Titleist...

[azza33]

Spot on Kahuna

And Manarak... What possible excuse could you have to drink drive in Thailand as a guest in their country?  

Cost of transport home? Worst case is 150 baht to get home.. most cases 10 baht.

What sort of person is unable to control themselves for a couple of weeks holiday?
Do you think those trivial fines will stop them? As soon as they depart the country they are home free.

If Thai law says a 6 years ban, then so be it... respect the country you are a guest in always. If you don't like the law, don't come.

ps. You don't need to directly know someone who has been killed or injured... It a senseless waste of life that could have otherwise been avoided. Catch a taxi or stay home if you cant afford that.

[Rocket J. Squirrel]

(manarak @ Jan. 21 2011,09:53) Have people you know been wounded or did people you know die because of drunk driving (or because of alcohol, unrelated to driving)?

Quite a few, sadly...

[spare wheel]

(azza33 @ Jan. 21 2011,03:30)

No issues from me with the police action.

Azza,
They don't show stuff like that here in UK, well not as strong or as detailed but they should.
Like to say great video but that would be wrong but hope you know what i mean.

SW„¢

[donnykey]

You are not allowed to drink/drive in your own country . Why should it be different in Thailand.

I've always thought penalties for drink driving (in australia anyway) are far too lenient.

If you are caught in the very high range your license should be gone forever.

No sympathy from me.

Cheers DK

P.S. Manarak it seems in your analogy (fine suggestions/punishment) for drink driving in Thailand you have to be caught 3 times before any substantial penalty is incurred ??

[donnykey]

(kahuna @ Jan. 21 2011,10:54) No second chance...If you're falang, you drink you drive you go home with a "don't come back" stamped in your passport...

If Thai laws and punishment don't meet your standards...Go start your own country...

How difficult is it to understand, don't drink and drive...Seems pretty simple to me....

Thanks for the heads up Titleist...

Exactly Big K. (See my post.)

Will be back very soon. Always passengering never driving.

Cheers DK

[farangbah]

(donnykey @ Jan. 21 2011,14:03) You are not allowed to drink/drive in your own country . Why should it be different in Thailand.

Exactly.  As we used to say to guests in my guiding days, "Safety doesn't take a vacation."

It always amazed me how people would come on my trips, to an unknown place, in extreme conditions, and somehow, simply because they were on holiday, think that nothing could happen to them.  They would leave their medications at home, not pay attention to common sense rules of thumb.  Stupid shit like that, thinking they were invulnerable because... "I'm on vacation!"

I had someone in my charge die in my arms.  A beautiful 27 year old girl.  And for the rest of my life I'll probably continue trying to convince myself that I did everything I could, and that she didn't, and threw caution to the wind because she was on vacation.  

I would give anything now to instead be able to deport her with a six-year ban, with the small hope that it might shock her enough to wise up and be more careful with her and others' lives, not only at home, but also ON VACATION.

[manarak]

(donnykey @ Jan. 21 2011,14:03) P.S. Manarak it seems in your analogy (fine suggestions/punishment)  for drink driving in Thailand you have to be caught 3 times before any substantial penalty is incurred ??

yeah... I might be a bit too lax in the "really drunk" department.

I think nevertheless that one mistake should just carry a substantial fine without further consequences.

In the "just a little drunk" department, I think only repeat offenses should warrant action.
I will feel safer in a car driven by a decent driver with 0.51 0/00 than on a motorbike taxi or in a car driven by a sober 80 year old (when I was young, I was a passenger in my greatgrandfather's car, I know what I am talking about   )

But then many people react differently to alcohol, I'm rather the quiet type.

[Torurot]

Too many idiot Farang riding motorcycles. Most have little/no experience of bike riding, when you add DRUNK, no helmet, and Jandals/flip flops, usually WAY too fast for the conditions they are a recipe for disaster. Often they are carrying a pillion passenger (mate, girlfriend), no helmet etc etc. If you were caught at where ever home is in the same circumstances you would be taking a trip to the police station, not being let off with a slap on the wrist.

Good to see a crack down, although a six year ban seems too much.

[katoeylover]

To me, who works in the alcohol business, there is no such thing as a "little drunk".

I have a no drink while driving policy everywhere i go.

Watch the video. It doesnt take a lot to impair your judgement and a casr at anything more than 35 mph is a deadly weapon. Same same for a bike for the rider - no protection.

What do you think the family of these guys want? a 6 year ban or a dead son/husband/buyfriend.

I believe drink driving to be totally socially un accaeptable in these days.