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  • Feds: We will search through your laptop files at

    Feds: We will search through your laptop files at the border


    Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:58AM EDT

    Following in the wake of February's news that customs agents were seizing electronics and making copies of all the files on cell phones and laptop hard drives, a federal appeals court has ruled on the legality of such searches. The result: Yeah, customs can do whatever it wants to your computer when you come across the border, without a warrant, and without cause.

    The ruling extends to all electronics: In addition to laptops, feds can seize phone records and even digital pictures on your camera as they hunt for evidence. The ruling was unanimous among the three appellate judges.

    Be assured that the ruling has little to do with thwarting terrorism. The appeal was actually part of an ongoing trial of a man named Michael Arnold, who returned from the Philippines and had his laptop scoured by the feds. They found purported images of child pornography on the laptop and later arrested him. In his trial, the evidence was suppressed for probable cause issues, as the court said that customs had no reasonable suspicion to search his laptop in the first place. That ruling has now been overturned.

    As Wired notes, the court did not rule on whether you have to help agents access your hard drive. If you use a password or encryption, the court was mum on whether you can be compelled to provide information on bypassing that security in order to access materials on the drive. If you find yourself in such a situation and have anything on your computer that might be considered at all suspicious, you are probably wise to keep mum on providing login information.

    This is an issue that will undoubtedly keep developing (and will probably be submitted, in the end, to the Supreme Court), but anyone traveling overseas with sensitive information (even confidential, legal stuff) should for now consider storing it elsewhere (online, perhaps) or simply leaving it at home.

    http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/90325null

  • #2
    Thanks for the important update! This has been discussed a few times in the past, but now the court ruling has come down, I am sure this will happen much more frequently now. A very unfortunate consequence of the Bush administration policy post 9/11.

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    • #3
      "George Orwell to the boarding gate please, Mr. Orwell to gate 11B please...."
      Making newbie mistakes since 2009 so you don't have to




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      • #4
        Some law firms already force their lawyers to cross U.S. Border with clean laptops only ("travel books"). They can upload their files after arrival via the secure Intranet (or what they think is secure). If they go home, they have to go through another notebook cleaning.

        This is so sick (the U.S., not the lawyers).

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        • #5
          Shit, I just purchased an awesome little 720p HiDef camcorder ($135 on Amazon.com believe it or not!) and wanted to bring it to film my exploits. Also planned to bring a laptop to use whilst there, and figured if I loaded any of the recordings onto the laptop I could use weird file names and change the extensions so they didn't appear to be videos, but after experimenting I see that the file format icon remains obvious (windows media, avi etc.) although it won't play with a .xls or .doc extension, but the feds could easily see the deception and change the format to make it visible. Any suggestions? The camera uses SD Card memory, and I'd planned to buy a bunch of 4GB cards before I left. Perhaps the trick would be to mail them home with some innocuous goods, put a fake name and Thai address on the return mail address, and then if they are stopped by customs in the states just play ignorant? Think that's pretty risky too as it would be too easy to link me to the performances I'd think. So, maybe trying to smuggle the SD cards home is the best bet?

          I guess the safest bet, but most difficult, would be to upload each video in some fashion. I could convert to torrents and try to seed them but that often takes forever and would require I make sure I had a fast connection. Not very easy on the road. Anyone else got ideas?
          Making newbie mistakes since 2009 so you don't have to




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          • #6
            They have gone through my laptop twice coming home through SFO...both times they asked for my permission...both times I granted them access...both times they told me they were looking for child porn...both times I said look ahead....both times they scrolled through my pics of ladyboys...both times they closed my laptop and said welcome back to America...

            Moreover, many many other times, they haven't bothered to look...

            It wouldn't be something I would be too concerned with unless I was trying to hide something....

            EDIT: Porno is not illegal in the USA and neither is gay porno...and certainly not in San Francisco...
            "It's not Gay if you beat them up afterwards."  --- Anon

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            • #7
              lol...Rent a sever or live in Europe.....

              Till now only the Us custom check my laptop....porno are allowed in Europe....
              Games and movies I send over to my server to Europe....so my friends could download...

              Thanks to TaT or KCS....

              Dieter
              Ladyboy Pro....A Bigger Bang

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              • #8
                This thread pops up over and over on various boards and I'm always a little puzzled at the outrage to which it gives rise. There's absolutely nothing new here and nothing unique to the US. Ranting that it somehow shows that 'the US is sick' is just plain dumb.

                Every customs service in the world conducts warrantless searches at their country's borders of any and everyone they want to. Everyv one of those customs services has done so as long as the concept of borders and customs services has existed.

                Why would digital materials be entitled to an exemption from the whole concept of border controls? If thirty years ago, you had tried to enter the US (or the UK or China or Brazil or anywhere else) with a bunch of papers and photographs sealed in a box, customs would have been entitled to go through them if they wanted to. You weren't entitled to some special privacy just because your papers and photos were sealed up in a box, or because they were papers and photos, or because you said that you didn't want to open the box.

                Now that those same papers and photos are rendered in digital form and you carry them in a phone or laptop chip instead of a box, why should the result be any different? Why would carrying a phone or laptop all of a sudden entitle you to some kind of magical pass from the same sort of customs inspections that every country in the world has claimed the right to make for hundreds of years?

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                • #9
                  (kahuna @ May 01 2008,09:57) Porno is not illegal in the USA and neither is gay porno...and certainly not in San Francisco...

                  Very good .
                  Free your mind and your ass will follow .

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                  • #10
                    I have nothing to hide, so what? Oh, the mother of all arguments. If you have nothing to hide, so you can go naked all the time. Surprisingly not everyone likes that, and for many people freedom in other parts of their life is still something important.

                    (Without freedom democracy is an illusion. Our nazi government here in Germany told the people that they live in the best of all worlds where even the "man from the street" has a lot of power, most of them believed it from the bottom of their heart.)

                    Indeed, I have not problem when they search your notebook if they have a certain suspicion for a crime like child pornography. But that must be based on certain facts , not on random action.

                    (And who tells you that they do not smile on your LB-Pics towards you and on the other hand make some nice remarks in your homeland security files, for further use of your local Police? The information will be there, and they use it sooner or later, certainly in combination with some other facts of you they gathered somewhere else.)

                    What business is concerned, the random copying of hard disks und USB drives at immigration is an desaster - for you as a businessman and your company. You really believe that, for example, an european engineers data will not sooner or later find its way to people who like to know about the Airbus A 500?

                    Sorry if I said the U.S. is sick. It's not the country or the people, it's the way they (or they government) sell their good old spirits for a phantom called security.

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                    • #11
                      Remember the Stazi!

                      First they came for...

                      Encrypt your hard drive ESPECIALLY if you are going into the USA.

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                      • #12
                        (aktiv-passiv @ May 01 2008,19:33) Indeed, I have not problem when they search your notebook if they have a certain suspicion for a crime like child pornography. But that must be based on certain facts ,  not on random action.....
                        If you just pretending to be dense in order to continue to rant about this, you are making a very convincing case of it.

                        Customs does not need a reason, much less anything like probable cause, in order to search you in any country in the world. If you present yourself at a border crossing, whatever you are carrying with you is subject to examination by the country you are entering. Thus is is everywhere, thus it has always been, and thus it always will be. What part of this don't you understand?

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                        • #13
                          I put up with the drama every time I enter the states ........in recent years I have been to some very bizarre places and I always raise red flags when I come back into the states.

                          same as Kahuna, I say go right ahead and look; whether it's porn, drugs, or anything else illegal or illicit you won't find shit on me.

                          slows down my connections a little but I always like smiling as they always say "you can go now"
                          Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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                          • #14
                            (SukhumvitRoad @ May 01 2008,20:46)
                            (aktiv-passiv @ May 01 2008,19:33) Indeed, I have not problem when they search your notebook if they have a certain suspicion for a crime like child pornography. But that must be based on certain facts ,  not on random action.....
                            If you just pretending to be dense in order to continue to rant about this, you are making a very convincing case of it.

                            Customs does not need a reason, much less anything like probable cause, in order to search you in any country in the world. If you present yourself at a border crossing, whatever you are carrying with you is subject to examination by the country you are entering. Thus is is everywhere, thus it has always been, and thus it always will be. What part of this don't you understand?
                            (You come of like a nice guy with your dense comments...)

                            The custom laws from country to country are different and also what the custom officers can do to you can differ from country to country.  In my country the custom officers wants more rights like they have in the States since they claim there are "loop holes" in the current laws.

                            Laws are one thing, but the policies also seem to differ from country to country.  My experience is that US customs are way more strict and thorough than many other countries.  Many countries doesn't even have officers or tools to scan laptops/harddrives, at least not if you run a exotic filesystem on it.

                            I do not see the sacrifice as very big if a laptop scan once in a while will help catch pedophiles, only problem would be if you get flagged in a way that causes them to do a extensive check every time.
                            Back in LOS in February  

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                            • #15
                              (bbb2k2 @ May 07 2008,07:24) I do not see the sacrifice as very big if a laptop scan once in a while will help catch pedophiles
                              If it catches the bad guys then it's a good thing...
                              The two times my laptop was searched it only took a few minutes...
                              Not as if they held you there for 30 minutes or more...
                              "It's not Gay if you beat them up afterwards."  --- Anon

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